Rant ...Apprenticeships

[Gemma-Louise]

Just a bit of a rant ... Now that apprenticeships have no age limit why is it a lot of them are really ageist (if that's even a word) i really don't see why i cant get an apprenticeship within hairdressing; I'm an extremely hard worker and i know this is what i want to do! unlike a lot of the 16 year old who don't have a clue what they want they just want money!

Why won't someone out there just give me the chance to prove myself!


RANT OVER )

 

[naturalnails]

There was a thread about this recently which got way out of hand and was closed - http://www.salongeek.com/hair-geek/144298-too-old-apprenticeship.html

Basically it appears to be down to the maths rather than age.

Let's hope this thread doesnt go the same way and end up closed.

Keep it constructive!

 

[buzz]

theres just been a big thread about this few posts down it was a good thread as there was people like yourself stating your opinion but also from salon owners to be honest it all stems down to money employers just cant afford to pay an adult the minimum wage tp start out when they can get a 16yr old for cheaper that can do the same and to be honest i dont know why everyone states a 16 year old in a category that means theyr not interested as there are plenty of hard working teenagers out there also you should read that thread it gives various opinions xx

 

[buzz]

theres just been a big thread about this few posts down it was a good thread as there was people like yourself stating your opinion but also from salon owners to be honest it all stems down to money employers just cant afford to pay an adult the minimum wage tp start out when they can get a 16yr old for cheaper that can do the same and to be honest i dont know why everyone states a 16 year old in a category that means theyr not interested as there are plenty of hard working teenagers out there also you should read that thread it gives various opinions xx

seems i was typing at the same time as you lol x

 

[Gemma-Louise]

I do know what yous mean but now its all changed in the law for apprenticeships its every age for their 1st year is paid the apprentice wage (95 per week) ... so this shouldn't be a problem anymore "//

There is a lot of hardworking teenagers; but there is also the ones who are just there for money which is training wasted!

xx

 

[naturalnails]

I do know what yous mean but now its all changed in the law for apprenticeships its every age for their 1st year is paid the apprentice wage (95 per week) ... so this shouldn't be a problem anymore "//

There is a lot of hardworking teenagers; but there is also the ones who are just there for money which is training wasted!

xx

I will move this to Biz section as it is not specific to Hair (I dont think)

 

[taggyboy]

I can only tell it from my point of view. Set up business in 2009 starting from scratch. We employed a Saturday Assistant last year who we had hoped, when leaving school this year, we would take on as an apprentice. All was ok but as a new business our intention was only to offer this on a part-time basis, due to the climate and being a new business. Our girl was happy for this as it has been something she has looked forward to for sometime and had struggled to find anyone to take her on, even at her age. We have spent time and money getting her prepared for her apprenticehsip. We made all relevant contacts with academies and training schools, found one, got the ball rolling only to find that the law is changing and the government INSISTS that we can only offer our Saturday Assistant an apprentice of a minimum of 30 hours a week at £2.50 per hour. Unless they have a disability or they request less hours for some reason. So we can't proceed. I'm not personally against taking on an older apprentice but for us it comes down to cost for our business. If minimum wage keeps rising then our hands will be tied as this has more to do with it than age i'm afraid.

I can understand that the apprenticehip scheme feels that the student needs a minimum of 30 hours to gain experience but we would have been teaching in-house as well and chose a training school that didn't close for school holidays etc. So in my view she would have qualified sooner rather than later.

It has been a stressful week for us as we have had to let her go.

So regardless of age, if the government wants to put people in work why do they insist on these regulations.

 

[hartey]

As a salon owner, it does come down to cost I'm afraid.

 

[persianista]

sadly it is cost for me too.

 

[Gemma-Louise]

But cost is no different from a 16 year old; for everybody's 1st year as an apprentice no matter what the age its the standard 2.50 an hour!

 

[Rapunzelxx]

Have you tried the bigger named Salons? I was 19/20 when Toni & Guy took me on as an assistant.. Mind you I'm now 30 so it's a good few years ago! I got min wage xx

 

[stephanie_87]

Sadly this does lie in costs to salons and even though it is now for all ages it is the laws of minimum wage that are preventing salons from seeing older learners as viable investments. Minimum wage is ageist, always has been and probably always will be, such is life! Everything boils down to the government and I'm sure many salon owners sympathise with your position, but their hands are tied, they are business people they have to take care if their business.

As for teenagers fresh out of school I agree some are as you describe, believe me they don't last very long! Hairdressing is hard work and for the most part for very little money. You have to love it and I mean really love it to carry it through! The 16 year olds you speak quite often don't finish the course and move onto something else, admitting it's not for them! Don't not go to college because of this preconceived idea about young people! I'm 24, I surround myself with hairdressers of all ages, trust me, the younger ones are often inspirational. They're fun, energetic, full of life, loads of ambition and oh my god so much creativity.

If you can't get an apprenticeship go to college, get yourself in a salon for day release, get yourself unpaid work, do anything you can to get yourself out there! Do bar work in the evenings if you need paid work, work seven days a week 14 hours a day if you have to. (I started a bit later than most, thats what i did, worked in a pub aswell) Don't give up on a dream because it seems a little harder to get there, you might just have to do it a slightly different way than you wanted.

You will get there x

 

[taggyboy]

Rates from 1 October 2011

The NMW rates are reviewed each year by the Low Pay Commission and from 1 October 2011:

• the main rate for workers aged 21 and over will increase to £6.08
• the 18-20 rate will increase to £4.98
• the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18 will increase to £3.68
• the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship will increase to £2.60

This is how I interprete it.

We could take a 21 year old on as an apprentice and the first year of their apprenticeship will be £2.60 as of October this year. Then once that year has passed the second year of the apprenticeship will rise to £6.08. That's a huge jump for a business to absorb whilst training is taking place.

or

We take a 16 year old on, first year £2.60 as of October then it would increase to £3.68.

For a fledgling business we cannot absorb this in the current climate.
I know it's probably not what you want to hear but this is really what it comes down to. As someone has already stated its ageist but our hands are tied.

Perhaps try looking at it from a business owners point of view, I hope you could see our reasoning it's not meant to be personal.

I do however, wish you luck, just keep trying.

 

[Gemma-Louise]

Hi guys i apologise for the rant after a long day of searching salons in my area i have given up hope of an apprenticeship, i have got all the info am going to apply to my local college on monday!

I will not let this get me down; i will get there in time all by my own determination! )


Fingers crossed x

 

[persianista]

I know of a salon chain who has a policy of taking older apprentices for their first year, then sacking them just before employment rules force the employer to raise pay to the nmw. One year is not enough. Hairdressing takes longer to learn. Personally I find that immoral.
We take 16/17 year olds and have them right through, and hopefully beyond.

 

[Sarah-Jean]

Gemma, good luck with college!

 

[melly07]

hmmm Taggyboy is your information of the direct gov? I only ask as my sister inlaw has been taken on as an apprentice in a local salon and she gets paid £120 a week (5days normal hours) and she was 21 last August... but if thats what your meant to get paid an hour it couldnt possibly add up I just want to check she was being paid correctly! The guy is a bit of a geezer and he's stopped paying the rest of his staff as "he can't afford to" so I'm a bit wary of him :s

 

[taggyboy]

hmmm Taggyboy is your information of the direct gov? I only ask as my sister inlaw has been taken on as an apprentice in a local salon and she gets paid £120 a week (5days normal hours) and she was 21 last August... but if thats what your meant to get paid an hour it couldnt possibly add up I just want to check she was being paid correctly! The guy is a bit of a geezer and he's stopped paying the rest of his staff as "he can't afford to" so I'm a bit wary of him :s

Hi Melly, yes that is correct, I took it from direct.gov site. They are the nmw from October 2011, so slightly less at the moment. Don't forget you don't get paid for lunch breaks. The nmw is there to protect all from "geezers" lol. Does it not state in her contract her basic rate, it should do somewhere. Hth's

I have understood that at 21 and in her first year as an apprentice she would only get £.2.50 at current nmw levels but after her first year it should jump to 21 rate.

from Debbie's HTC Sense

 

[melly07]

Hi Melly, yes that is correct, I took it from direct.gov site. They are the nmw from October 2011, so slightly less at the moment. Don't forget you don't get paid for lunch breaks. The nmw is there to protect all from "geezers" lol. Does it not state in her contract her basic rate, it should do somewhere. Hth's

I have understood that at 21 and in her first year as an apprentice she would only get £.2.50 at current nmw levels but after her first year it should jump to 21 rate.

from Debbie's HTC Sense

Ahh I worked it out on the new wages coming in so she should be ok on what counts for now, she's only been there a month or so and she's there doing a refresher rather than training she tells me as she already trained and then left for something else. So actually she's fine thanks hun! xx

 

[melly07]

Oh and apologies for completely turning the thread around like we were told not do :s