Shellac and LED lamp?

[Andrea85]

yeah, someone did that on mine too, and it didn't cure correctly. these things are recommended for a reason!

I know, someone did it on the Minx course too.

 

[xxJackiexx]

When I did my Shellac couse, someone decided to bring a different UV lamp, despite being told that they MUST have all of the CND Shallac equipment, and their Shellac did not cure.

I'm surprised they where allowed to stay given that they didn't have the correct kit ,even more so as the lamp is a pretty major part of the kit?

 

[Andrea85]

I'm surprised they where allowed to stay given that they didn't have the correct kit ,even more so as the lamp is a pretty major part of the kit?

She had everything else. I think the tutor was making a point of showing her that it would not work properly by getting her to use it anyway. Not sure what happened with the Minx one, we were all sharing lamps as it was so crowded in there.

 

[Suzanne1118]

Hmmm! A lot I could say about this and several others already have, however none of them have mentioned 1 very important thing. If for any reason something goes wrong and the client you did a shellac mani on using the led light decides to take legal action, you WILL NOT be covered by your insurance so YOU will have to personally pay out!

Is that really a risk worth taking?!

This Isn't actually true, you are covered. I checked.

I didn't have the CnD lamp to start with and then after listening to everyone saying it lasts longer etc etc I decided to get one. After leaving a hole in my pocket, I honestly see no difference. I always use the CnD one as I now have it but client's nails turn out the same, last the same, look the same and no1 has noticed a difference and never once has any of my client's had a reaction. I think reactions are more likely to be caused by misuse of acetone.

I know this will cause contriversy BUT before you all jump down my neck remember I do use the lamp properly, I just don't see the need.

 

[ellewopter]

I'm beginning to hate this industry, it is being undermined from within by a few stupid people that can't grasp BASIC science. For the last time... you can't tell its cured, you will over expose clients, they may last ok, it won't necessarily happen immediately, you were just lucky if it didn't. Would you mix random liquid and powder and think that was ok I wonder?

 

[Suzanne1118]

I'm beginning to hate this industry, it is being undermined from within by a few stupid people that can't grasp BASIC science. For the last time... you can't tell its cured, you will over expose clients, they may last ok, it won't necessarily happen immediately, you were just lucky if it didn't. Would you mix random liquid and powder and think that was ok I wonder?

Now lets not get aggressive and start calling people stupid. No1 else is getting personal you calm down. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I still always use the 'other' lamp on myself as the cnd one is usually being used when I get a chance. I have been doing this every 2 weeks since the product was launched and I have never had a single problem.

AS I SAID PRIVIOUSLY, DON'T JUMP DOWN MY NECK AS I USE THE CND LAMP! It is MY opinion that there isn't a problem with using a differen't lamp, other than the fact that you have to cure the thumb seperately so it is more time consuming.

Please don't get personal again as THAT is very unprofessional.

 

[Unique.Tips]

My personal opinion is this.... If you refuse to follow manufacturers instructions, it is not my problem. Bc I do and my clients are 100% happy. There are three of us nail pros in my salon and I'm the only one that purchased the CND lamp. And guess who does more Shellac clients? You guessed it. It's not bc mine looks THAT much better then everyone else's. It's bc mine lasts the best with little natural nail issues. Like peeling, white spots, pooling, thickness, etc. I get told EVERY NEW CLIENT that not everyone can apply Shellac properly. And my response is, "I guess people just don't read directions."

All of that being said, other "pros" who refuse to follow directions don't affect me at all. It actually helps my clientele and allows my clients to better appreciate me as a valuable professional. Bc I have an intelligent and precisely scientific response to every past concern they've ever had with another Shellac experience.

 

[ellewopter]

As that aimed at anyone personally?.... nope, was knowing for a fact the reasons you you need to use the system correctly unprofessional, nope.
Am I aggressive? nope. Is it professional to recommend potentially unsafe working practices? And that is aimed at noone specifically before anyone get upset by it.
Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion, i gave you mine and not how it was taken

 

[AcidPerm]

You're not wearing the right clothes/shoes/hair/etc and so we don't want you in our gang. Not only that but we're going to be nasty/rude to you until you do what we do/say etc...

I suspect most geeks on here are fully aware of the range of opinions over the lamp/system debate.

BUT I'm really not happy with the harassment that always follows these threads and I'd rather not be harangued by it at every opportunity.

If some folk wish to choose their own lamp etc, so be it. Why can't they? What is it to you personally?

It's hardly a criminal activity!

 

[Suzanne1118]

You're not wearing the right clothes/shoes/hair/etc and so we don't want you in our gang. Not only that but we're going to be nasty/rude to you until you do what we do/say etc...

I suspect most geeks on here are fully aware of the range of opinions over the lamp/system debate.

BUT I'm really not happy with the harassment that always follows these threads and I'd rather not be harangued by it at every opportunity.

If some folk wish to choose their own lamp etc, so be it. Why can't they? What is it to you personally?

It's hardly a criminal activity!

Amen

 

[StephR]

This Isn't actually true, you are covered. I checked.

I didn't have the CnD lamp to start with and then after listening to everyone saying it lasts longer etc etc I decided to get one. After leaving a hole in my pocket, I honestly see no difference. I always use the CnD one as I now have it but client's nails turn out the same, last the same, look the same and no1 has noticed a difference and never once has any of my client's had a reaction. I think reactions are more likely to be caused by misuse of acetone.

I know this will cause contriversy BUT before you all jump down my neck remember I do use the lamp properly, I just don't see the need.

Well that's where you have been told differently to me then. I have spoken to several of the top insurers recently as I was renewing my insurance and got told the same thing by them all, that you would not be covered.

I personally don't feel it's a risk worth taking so I'm not going to.

I have openly admitted on here several times that I did doubt the whole CND lamp to start with. I used a standard uv lamp (only on myself and my mum). Worked fine to start with then after a few times I had service breakdown. since I have used the CND lamp I have had no problems!

 

[happyfeet]

i don't normally comment on these types of threads but today I'm feeling brave

i really don't think anyone is being rude, personal or whatever with regards to the cnd lamp. I, like many others get frustrated that some tech's continue to use the incorrect lamp when, even if you choose to ignore the manufacturers advice, there has been scientific studies proving why the correct lamp needs to be used for whatever system. I also think as a public forum, we have to be very careful and responsible in what advice we give out not only to other professionals but also the general public, who do read this forum. I personally think it is up to us professionals to set a standard and if we don't, what kind of message does that give to our clients?
We don't know the ins and outs scientifically to shellac as we aren't scientists, so we have to trust and take note of the information supplied to us which i think is more than comprehensive and easy to understand. We are given enough information through studies and information to surely understand why the correct lamp needs to be used. I for one, really can't get my head round why some tech's choose not to believe it. It really is a no brainer.
If you disbelieve a company so much and don't trust them i also cannot understand why you would continue to use them? I do believe cnd because i see no reason why they would lie. Cnd support their customers in just about every aspect of your business and i think they more than value us too.
I'm a nail stylist not a scientist, so i put my trust in the scientists behind cnd, just as my clients aren't nail professionals and they put their trust in me.

Love n hugs x x o

 

[VHunter]

It's always adviseable to follow manufacturer's directions to get the best result for your services. Then if issue arises, it's much easier to trouble-shoot without adding variables such as incorrect lamp etc.

So in a nutshell, it's a waste of everyone's time to raise the question over and over "can I use a different lamp". If the Brand/Distributor says to use theirs, there is usually a good reason. If you have no intention of following directions, then don't bother asking the question if you're not going to be happy with the replies.

The CND one is designed to work with Shellac. That's all you need to know.

I'm sorry Fozzy, but I strongly disagree with that statement.
There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't know the "whys" of it. Knowledge is power. Perhaps if we knew ALL the "whys" of it, people would cease asking the same question on a weekly basis, and we'd see less arguments with regards to the issue.
And frankly, with the numerous shady distributors and brands out there....I don't do anything just because "so and so said so". I want hard, irrefutable facts. On any given subject.
My local distributor tried to sell me a single bulb 4w lamp for use with Shellac. I'm sure she's not the only one out there doing this sort of silliness.

For another thing... some time ago I asked a question that to this date has not been answered to my satisfaction (this is not aimed at you, just pointing something out here).

CND users/educators have made the claim that the CND lamp will cure all other brands of gel etc (I've seen this said on these forums many times when users of other brands ask if the CND lamp will cure their brand of gel) HOWEVER deny that any other lamp will do for CND products.
NOW if anyone has read Doug Schoon's article on this very subject, that is simply not true. Over-curing is a risk as well.

So it's either one of the following:
A) the CND lamp truly is different from other 4 x 9w bulb tunnel lamps, and no, it won't cure any other brand effectively
B) the CND lamp will cure other brands of gel, WHICH infers that many of the 4 x 9w tunnel lamps are very much the same and so other lamps can cure CND products.

BUT it can't be both ways.
I honestly feel that because CND users have advocated use of the CND lamp for other brands, it has fed the confusion and the debate.

I'm the sort that likes all her facts and ducks lined in a row.

I would sincerely love to see a study done on the different lamps on the market, and tested with multiple brands of product.

Then this argument could be put to rest.

 

[lashed11]

Im confused

Im going on shellac course next week and trying to keep costs down as im opening a new business, whats the difference of a cnd uv lamp and a normal uv lamp that looks the same but thats half the price?? x

Me and my twinny both use shellac, I bought the cnd lamp and she tried a cheaper version after reading some people's posts saying its fine to use a cheaper lamp...and she noticed her shellacs definitely don't last as long as mine, they peel after a day or so, luckily she has just been practicing on friends and family just now! I'd say it's always best to stick to the whole cnd system, it's much better to pay a little more but be confident that your using all the products and equipment you need to provide an amazing shellac service xx

 

[Suzanne1118]

I would sincerely love to see a study done on the different lamps on the market, and tested with multiple brands of product.

Then this argument could be put to rest.

Absolutly agree! There is not enough information for us to understand. I will not follow blindly and as a lot of others are happy to do.

At the end of the day, companies are formed to make money so it is our job to find out the details of why products work the way they do. No company is going to tell you their bad points. I really hope someone does a study into this soon as it really is needed!

 

[NancySyd]

You're not wearing the right clothes/shoes/hair/etc and so we don't want you in our gang. Not only that but we're going to be nasty/rude to you until you do what we do/say etc...

I suspect most geeks on here are fully aware of the range of opinions over the lamp/system debate.

BUT I'm really not happy with the harassment that always follows these threads and I'd rather not be harangued by it at every opportunity.

If some folk wish to choose their own lamp etc, so be it. Why can't they? What is it to you personally?

It's hardly a criminal activity!

I'm sorry, and no offense meant, but your argument just doesn't hold water. This isn't about opinions or rules, or "gangs." It's about scientific facts and legal obligations and you have never responded to those facts - just reasserted your opinion without justification.

People may have a right to do or say what they want, but if they come on a professional board and raise the issue, others have the equal right to disagree and argue the facts, vehemently even.

The scientific facts are simple - A less than optimal cure can expose clients to uncured gel and cause an allergic reaction - a permanent one. It is close to impossible for the naked eye to determine an optimal cure; we are all trusting that our cures are good because we followed the system. CND says it cannot assure an optimal cure using another lamp.

The legal facts are equally simple - CND says that Shellac™ is a system that requires the CND lamp (among other things). They are clear that, if you don't follow their system, you can't call it by their trademarked name. CND is instituting some pretty strict requirements about their product - I wouldn't be surprised if they resorted to legal action to protect their trademark. In addition to the obvious trademark violation, there are other legal issues as well - informed consent and negligence, for example.

So while it is not criminal activity, it is rather sketchy legal conduct.

 

[Unique.Tips]

This picture was taken from the article provided in the above post by a fellow geek. http://www.nailsmag.com/print/91808/the-science-of-gels

Here is another link that explains Proper gel curing
http://www.schoonscientific.com/downloads/tech-articles/article-7-Secrets-to-Curing.pdf

Another link provided by a Canadian supplier of esthetics http://www.canwestesthetics.com/?p=813

 

[fozzyo]

It's always adviseable to follow manufacturer's directions to get the best result for your services. Then if issue arises, it's much easier to trouble-shoot without adding variables such as incorrect lamp etc.

So in a nutshell, it's a waste of everyone's time to raise the question over and over "can I use a different lamp". If the Brand/Distributor says to use theirs, there is usually a good reason. If you have no intention of following directions, then don't bother asking the question if you're not going to be happy with the replies.

I'm sorry Fozzy, but I strongly disagree with that statement.
There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't know the "whys" of it. Knowledge is power. Perhaps if we knew ALL the "whys" of it, people would cease asking the same question on a weekly basis, and we'd see less arguments with regards to the issue.
And frankly, with the numerous shady distributors and brands out there....I don't do anything just because "so and so said so". I want hard, irrefutable facts. On any given subject.
My local distributor tried to sell me a single bulb 4w lamp for use with Shellac. I'm sure she's not the only one out there doing this sort of silliness.

For another thing... some time ago I asked a question that to this date has not been answered to my satisfaction (this is not aimed at you, just pointing something out here).

CND users/educators have made the claim that the CND lamp will cure all other brands of gel etc (I've seen this said on these forums many times when users of other brands ask if the CND lamp will cure their brand of gel) HOWEVER deny that any other lamp will do for CND products.
NOW if anyone has read Doug Schoon's article on this very subject, that is simply not true. Over-curing is a risk as well.

So it's either one of the following:
A) the CND lamp truly is different from other 4 x 9w bulb tunnel lamps, and no, it won't cure any other brand effectively
B) the CND lamp will cure other brands of gel, WHICH infers that many of the 4 x 9w tunnel lamps are very much the same and so other lamps can cure CND products.

BUT it can't be both ways.
I honestly feel that because CND users have advocated use of the CND lamp for other brands, it has fed the confusion and the debate.

I'm the sort that likes all her facts and ducks lined in a row.

I would sincerely love to see a study done on the different lamps on the market, and tested with multiple brands of product.

Then this argument could be put to rest.

Great follow up, maybe I could change my statement to:

CND recommend their lamp because they know it will 100% cure Shellac, that should be enough justification to use that lamp. You can offer the service without any doubt about over / under curing.

To get really technical maybe it isn't really the 'lamp' that matters, it is the bulbs. CND don't (afaik) manufacturer bulbs, but either

a) Have had some made to their specification
b) Have found some of a suitable specification and designed the product to work with them

Just because a bulb is 9W that doesn't mean it will work with Shellac, or IBD, or Gelish. The wattage refers to the power rating ... not the UV output. To cure Gel's my limited understanding of such things would require the UV light be in correct frequency (it could be UVA, UVB, UVC or anywhere along the UV light frequency) and the correct intensity.

The bulbs provided by CND do this. Another, maybe cheaper bulbs may not generate the same UV output.

Interesting you say about some testing would be fascinating to see - I'm the same with Microcurrent machines - I would love someone with suitable test equipment to take readings from various manufacturers to actually see how they differ in what they do.

Mat

 

[VHunter]

Great follow up, maybe I could change my statement to:

CND recommend their lamp because they know it will 100% cure Shellac, that should be enough justification to use that lamp. You can offer the service without any doubt about over / under curing.

To get really technical maybe it isn't really the 'lamp' that matters, it is the bulbs. CND don't (afaik) manufacturer bulbs, but either

a) Have had some made to their specification
b) Have found some of a suitable specification and designed the product to work with them

Just because a bulb is 9W that doesn't mean it will work with Shellac, or IBD, or Gelish. The wattage refers to the power rating ... not the UV output. To cure Gel's my limited understanding of such things would require the UV light be in correct frequency (it could be UVA, UVB, UVC or anywhere along the UV light frequency) and the correct intensity.

The bulbs provided by CND do this. Another, maybe cheaper bulbs may not generate the same UV output.

Interesting you say about some testing would be fascinating to see - I'm the same with Microcurrent machines - I would love someone with suitable test equipment to take readings from various manufacturers to actually see how they differ in what they do.

Mat

Thanks for understanding and not taking me the wrong way :hug:

Exactly, they don't manufacture their bulbs, someone else does.
Who's to say that 'that' company doesn't retail the exact same bulbs with a different label on them?
We see this all the time; with home light-bulbs, laundry detergents, diapers, ketchup etc etc.
I personally know a nail tech that orders coloured gel product from China, and slaps her own labels onto the pots and retails them to other techs.
SOME COMPANIES will put the new label on for you, for an extra fee.

OR maybe these bulbs really are only sold to CND. So then the question becomes "could that bulb be put into another tunnel lamp?"

I could keep on raising questions on this issue. Whether it's a CND Lamp or other Branded Lamp (IBD, or Ez Flow etc etc).

Just this week I received an L&P brush that I'm CONVINCED is a knock-off from my distributor. I'll be contacting the parent company shortly to determine if I'm correct.
It LOOKS identical BUT the cap is wrong AND has a sticker on it that reads "made in japan" which none of my other brushes from same company had.

I also have another question on the issue: the lamps are made up of the same materials (plastic, reflectors, glass for bulbs etc) so WHY the HUGE difference in pricing from one to the other. Yes, I understand that with some things we are paying for the Branding and the marketing and such.
But really? 30$ versus 200$? Or even 400$ in some cases? HOLY MOLY that's a huge difference.

So yes... I would dearly love some solid studies on the issue; involving dissesction of multiple lamps, testing uv output of multiple lamps and testing of product using multiple lamps.

HOWEVER until such time as results from said testing are available; the smartest thing anyone can do is FOLLOW MANUFACTURER'S DIRECTIONS!

 

[daisyl]

many moons ago on this subject I got shot down in flames for daring to suggest that perhaps INDEPENDENT research would be more relevant. Not to undermine anyones credentials, but when citing research I think it is always relevant and important to look at whether or not the individual is truly independent or whether said individual is on a company payroll. However, taking costs into consideration, I doubt this will ever be truly undertaken, (costs Vs need). We actually offer Shellac in our MediSpa, using the whole system, with the CND lamp, however the 'research' certainly did not play a major factor. But I agree with VHunter, I would advise following manufacturers instructions, unless proved otherwise.