Shellac and LED lamp?

[sammi010]

Very interesting points made by a lot of people.

In my 'spare' time I have been drafted into the family building and maintenance company which means we deal with some of the UK's largest electrical distributors and so in turn manufacturers. As it's approaching end of the month our rep will soon be knocking on the door for his cheque so will ask him. Definitely he will know nothing about the curing time of gels, hybrid gels v's power polishes! but he should be able to dig up information on bulbs/lamps.

 

[Unique.Tips]

If you do not trust the manufacturer to provide you with adequate information on their product, then don't use their product.

It's as simple as that. If they are so shady that they would try to sell you a lamp that is really not that expensive (no more then that flat iron you straighten your hair with every day) just to sell a few extra bucks, then why do you trust the product at all? Why not start using gelish top coat with the Shellac colors? Why not use OPI nail envy as Shellac's base coat? Bc it won't work. That's why.

CND is a very reputable company providing high quality products time and time again. If this was some 1 year old no name company, I would understand the skepticism. But that is not the case with this.

So if you don't trust CND to provide you with correct information, then dont trust them to provide you with the number one UV cured power polish in our industry.

 

[mum]

The Doug Schoon report was independently researched. The credentials of the researchers are there.

I don't know why this keeps on and on cropping up! The answer isn't going to change. Some manufacturers strongly recommend that professionals use their lamps for a variety of reasons. They don't insist as the colour products can be bought without buying the lamp. They may not be able to offer good customer support if things go wrong if a different energy source was used.

This is the situation. Asking questions and giving opinions and complaining and all the other things that have been brought up in countless threads won't change this

 

[sammi010]

The Doug Schoon report was independently researched. The credentials of the researchers are there.

True, but he does state in his article that over curing can be as detrimental as undercuring. A very valid question was raised that if other lamps under cure Shellac then does it not stand to reason that the lamp which will cure Shellac will overcure other products?

I don't even use shellac so don't know why I'm getting involved :lol:

 

[daisyl]

The Doug Schoon report was independently researched. The credentials of the researchers are there.

To repeat, I would in no way undermine the credentials of the researcher - I did point this out - however, I disagree that the report is entirely independent. That is not to say that I have any reason to trust/distrust any company or individual x

 

[Klassy Klaws]

To repeat, I would in no way undermine the credentials of the researcher - I did point this out - however, I disagree that the report is entirely independent. That is not to say that I have any reason to trust/distrust any company or individual x

Doug Schoon is entirely Independent he does not work for any company so the report is completely unbiased and full or truthful facts.

 

[sammi010]

and full or truthful facts.

Which include the issue of over curing?

Not trying to stir in any way, just trying to get a better understanding of something that to those without the in depth scientific understanding does appear to contradict itself.

 

[Suzanne1118]

Ive been reading through Doug Schoon's researches but no where does it answer the questions VHunter is asking. Am I missing them or were they not covered?

 

[nails2nails]

I thought Doug was cnd's chief scientist?

As for answers you won't get them..it's top secret lol

Then the thread will be closed

 

[AcidPerm]

Yes, he does work for CND, so presumably CND fund the research.

Not exactly independent then?

He hasn't even got a doctorate...let alone a higher doctorate.

 

[happyfeet]

. . . But presumably he knows more about science than a nail professional

 

[Suzanne1118]

Interesting... A friend of mine is a scientist (but a very busy one), might ask her to have a look if she gets a free minute!

 

[NancySyd]

Yes, he does work for CND, so presumably CND fund the research.

Not exactly independent then?

He hasn't even got a doctorate...let alone a higher doctorate.

Schoon does have his own company, but he is still affiliated with CND, but I doubt if you'll find anyone who is completely independent because it is industry that funds any of the research. You might also look and see that McConnell from LE also worked on this and on at least the UV radiation study, the work was replicated by an independent laboratory.

And, speaking as a university researcher myself, a doctorate is not necessary for the kind of work Schoon or any industry chemist does. The master's degree is generally for people going into industry and industry-related work - it is the practitioner's degree. The doctorate is generally for university researchers and people doing more theoretical research. (and what is a "higher doctorate?" I'm in the US and I don't think we have such a thing)

 

[VHunter]

If you do not trust the manufacturer to provide you with adequate information on their product, then don't use their product.

It's not that I do or don't trust CND. Please do NOT missunderstand me.
I like the company and I like their products.
I simply prefer to have ALL the facts and not just 'some'.
And as I've said, since CND techs and distributors alike have assured that the CND lamp can cure all brands, I want the data to back up this claim. I personally think that their advocating of this is contributing to the conflict.
I wouldn't buy a car without doing my research. Same applies to a UV Lamp.

This is the situation. Asking questions and giving opinions and complaining and all the other things that have been brought up in countless threads won't change this

Hence why I suggest the need of an additional study answering the questions I raised. I think that's the only way to end it once and for all.

True, but he does state in his article that over curing can be as detrimental as undercuring. A very valid question was raised that if other lamps under cure Shellac then does it not stand to reason that the lamp which will cure Shellac will overcure other products?

Exactly my point!!:biggrin:

Yes, he does work for CND, so presumably CND fund the research.

Not exactly independent then?

He hasn't even got a doctorate...let alone a higher doctorate.

Just because he is employed by CND for certain tasks does NOT mean he can't pursue other projects/studies etc outside of that, and INDEPENDANT from that.
One Example: There are a great many techs on here that work in an office and as a tech on weekends.
One has nothing to do with the other.

His bio is found here: Biography of Doug Schoon, founder of Schoon Scientific, LLC, providing technical consulting services to the beauty product industry.

Part of which reads

Bachelors Degree Chemistry, Cal State University- Long Beach, CA (1982)
Masters of Science Degree in Chemistry, University of California-Irvine (1984

I would think that THAT is more than sufficient to speak for his qualifications, aside from all the other details of the Bio.


By raising the issues that I have, I am simply attempting to point out that one can NOT advise using the CND lamp for other brands if they are making the claim that Shellac can ONLY be cured using a CND lamp.
It's a contradiction in terms.

So back to my point which is: USE THE BRAND OF LAMP AS ADVISED BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THE SAME BRAND until such time as Science and facts provide a "one size fits all" lamp.
:wink2:

 

[Suzanne1118]

It's not that I do or don't trust CND. Please do NOT missunderstand me.
I like the company and I like their products.
I simply prefer to have ALL the facts and not just 'some'.
And as I've said, since CND techs and distributors alike have assured that the CND lamp can cure all brands, I want the data to back up this claim. I personally think that their advocating of this is contributing to the conflict.
I wouldn't buy a car without doing my research. Same applies to a UV Lamp.



Hence why I suggest the need of an additional study answering the questions I raised. I think that's the only way to end it once and for all.


Exactly my point!!:biggrin:





Just because he is employed by CND for certain tasks does NOT mean he can't pursue other projects/studies etc outside of that, and INDEPENDANT from that.
One Example: There are a great many techs on here that work in an office and as a tech on weekends.
One has nothing to do with the other.

His bio is found here: Biography of Doug Schoon, founder of Schoon Scientific, LLC, providing technical consulting services to the beauty product industry.

Part of which reads


I would think that THAT is more than sufficient to speak for his qualifications, aside from all the other details of the Bio.


By raising the issues that I have, I am simply attempting to point out that one can NOT advise using the CND lamp for other brands if they are making the claim that Shellac can ONLY be cured using a CND lamp.
It's a contradiction in terms.

So back to my point which is: USE THE BRAND OF LAMP AS ADVISED BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THE SAME BRAND until such time as Science and facts provide a "one size fits all" lamp.
:wink2:

People seem to be taking you up wrong but I completely agree with everything you said!

 

[ellewopter]

I totally agree VHunter, I would also be asking questions rather than assuming, before using any NON CND products with my CND lamp, and for this exact reason would only use the recommended lamp for the system I used.
I no longer use any non CND products but I have the lamp for the products I did use, but I wouldn't use my CND lamp for them.
This is the only thing I am not entirely comfortable with is the over and still potentially under curing of non CND gels etc. (FYI I have a background in chemistry)

 

[naturalnails]

Yet another lamp thread turns into a suspicious ranting thread.

It is not rocket science, well it possibly is actually! Is there no one in the industry that you guys will trust to speak the truth. What about Doug Schoon, is he credible or just out to sell you something.

I do not know how many times it needs to be said about gels and the curing - if it is not curing properly, you may not see it.

Every one who uses any form of gel should read this and believe it - http://www.schoonscientific.com/downloads/tech-articles/article-7-Secrets-to-Curing.pdf

If you choose to do your own thing and you cause your client to have an allergic reaction then your insurance will not cover you.

End of.

 

[naturalnails]

Since several people dont seem to want to listen to the advice given, Doug Schoon has been asked to comment on this thread. As it was closed, I will quote his reply here. Thanks Doug!

Hi,
I've read this thread with great interests. Clearly there is a lot of
confusion. Hopefully, this will address some of the misunderstandings.
Since CND doesn't sell an LED lamp, the answer to the original questions is
NO; you can't use an LED lamp with Shellac if you expect to achieve a
"proper cure". If an "improper" cure is acceptable to you (and your
clients), then the answer would be different. You "can" do anything you
want, but as Liza pointed out- you should stick to manufacturer's
instructions. Again, you "can" choose to ignore manufacturer's
instructions, but at your own risk. I don't recommend this.

Some have claimed Shellac (or any other UV gel) cures "perfectly" under
another non-recommended lamp but this is a guess and they can't possibly
know if the product is properly curing. There are three types of cure and
you can choose which you wish to achieve; "under cure", "over cure "and
"proper cure". If you don't follow manufacturer's instructions, you are NOT
likely to achieve proper cure. This is what MissOwen correctly called,
"curing to the eye". That's another way of saying improper cure. When
someone tells me a product such as Shellac isn't working for them, most of
the time they are using the product "their way" and not following
instructions, which is a huge problem in our industry. I think Fozzyo said
it best, "If you don't use the CND lamp, you're not offering your clients
Shellac".

Interestingly, much of what I would have said, has been said by others, but
it seems that some just don't want to hear the facts and are determined to
use the products "their way" no matter what they are told. Daisyl suggested
independent research, but many have already done this. When you cure one
hand with the correct lamp and one with the incorrect lamp, you will find
out for yourself. This is chemistry and how ALL UV products cure. Do we
need to do research to determine that if you put cookies in an oven that is
too hot, they will over cook? Or if the oven is too cold, won't they under
cook? What if you leave them in an oven that's too cold, but I leave them
in for an extra 10 minutes? That would be silly, wouldn't it, esp. when the
cookie batter manufacturer has told you explicitly the correct time and
temperature of the oven. Now what if you decide, I don't need to use an
oven, I can put them in the microwave for a half the time? This might make
sense to do if you like improperly cooked cookies, but if you're selling
these cookies to a client for a good amount of money, don't you think the
client expects that you, as a knowledgeable professional, would have cooked
them "properly"? Do you need a PhD in cooking to see this is true?

 

[Unique.Tips]

Perfectly said! Love the cookie analogy!

 

[happyfeet]

. . . And that is why Doug schoon rocks! thanks for posting this naturalnails. X x x