Shellac and LED lamp?

[mum]

Well said!! if people still refuse to believe and think this is all a marketing ploy, perhaps they can learn from my experience...yes...you will probably hate me for being predominantly a DIY'er and I was referred to briefly at the beginning of this post.
I am someone who has a passion for nails and has done all my life, I work full time in another profession and my hobby and passion for nails is something that causes me to spend at least an hour a day browsing this and other nail related web sites.
I do my nails and about about 4 friends only so I am not claiming to be in the same 'league' as the awe inspiring 'pro's' on here.
However, my passion led me to do manicure course with Harmony UK and my passion flourished.
I am telling you this just for background..
I used a standard 36watt lamp for Shellac and one of those 'crescent shaped' LED lamps for Gelish for several months.

I was proud and delighted with the results and thought all was well, like many of you I thought the insistence on manufacturers to use their specific lamp was marketing and corporate greed.

About two months back I developed a dreadful allergy, fingers itched , swelled, erythema, and eventually the skin blistered and broke down.
This was painful, upsetting and took weeks to heal.

After this happened I began to read extensively and came across Doug's articles.
I am no scientist and can't remember the exact terminology, but my basic understanding was there is a difference in wavelengths between lamp bulbs (Doug please correct me if I am wrong).

And yes of course CND are going to endorse the use of their lamp, why would they risk it and say it's ok to use any lamp. Without them forking out to scientifically test safety of every lamp on the market with Shellac it would be downright irresponsible to say it's ok.

The bottom line is I learnt the hard way , I thought I knew better (as do many others on here it seems).

You CANNOT see with the naked eye if Shellac (or any soak off gel) is overcured or undercured, therefore why take the chance?

I now have a Harmony Gelish Lamp for my Gelish and a CND lamp for my Shellac.
Both are wonderful lamps, The CND lamp is not that expensive I don't think and I really don't see why someone who makes a career out of nails begrudges buying a quality product.

If you still are unconvinced and want more info why don't you just read the research?????

and if you are sceptical about companies paying researchers to test and publish their findings...well ..wake up! research does not come cheap and takes a long time, who else is going to fund it if not the companies themselves. Like it or not this is how it works. It happens in pharmaceuticals and most industries.

There......I've been brave enough to post and give you my nasty experience due to my foolishness..

Well done to you for sharing your story (specially on a site where sometimes people dare not even squeak!). It is a perfect, if unfortunate for you, example of what can go wrong and you put your points across very well. Personally I don't have a problem with you as a DIY'er. You seem to have gone about it in the right way and are not pretending to be a professional.

This is getting to be SUCH a boring topic! Manufacturers recommendations are there to be taken or ignored. The scientific facts have been provided over and over. Every individual can make up their own mind as to what they choose to do.

I, as an individual, will always want to know 'why' and 'what if'. This info has been available for a long time now and I choose to, as usual, take the manufacturers recommendations as they make perfect sense.

 

[nails2nails]

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, or thick, certainly unappreciative and uninformed.

I personally asked Doug to respond to this thread. He is a very old friend of mine, and I thought it would help you all. He was not TOLD by anyone to respond. He gave us his time.

He has just completed a 60 mile walk, not a week ago, that raised over 9 million ( yes you read it right, over nine million USD) for breast cancer. He loves our industry and has supported the women in our industry for years by raising many many millions ... PLUS it is his Thanksgiving holiday weekend which is an important family time for we Americans and STILL he took the time to get in touch.

@ nails2nails .. Ungrateful, unappreciative and ungracious of you.

To the others who have intelligence and learned from Doug's information in the past, you did a great job in this thread of informing the ignorant which spared Doug from having to rewrite his book and posting it here again for those who don't want to 'get it' and who probably never will. To those whom 'the cap fits' BUY HIS BOOK AND LEARN PEOPLE.

@doug. ... Thank you as always for giving us your time and your always easy to understand explanations. I appreciate you taking the time and enjoy the rest of your weekend. love from me G

wow...well you have gone to this level of name calling, I shall bow out.

But just before I go, could you tell me what's so special about your bulbs? :biggrin:

 

[geeg]

wow...well you have gone to this level of name calling, I shall bow out.

But just before I go, could you tell me what's so special about your bulbs? :biggrin:

Name calling is as name calling DOES.

Read the report its all in there ... its even been mentioned in the thread ... but I'm wasting no more of MY time on wasters. Do your own work. Toodles and have a happy Xmas.

 

[VHunter]

I don't understand why this same thread comes up again and again and again. It's boring now. The fact of the matter is some people choose to follow manufacturers instructions and others don't. End of.

It comes up again and again;

• Because folks don't use the 'Search' facility and keep asking again and again.
• Because they don't read Doug's report/article that I and others keep linking.
• Because other members of SG are advising the use of the CND lamp to cure other brands of gel etc (which imo, creates confusion).

And then there's stubborn chits like myself who don't like the "because I said so" answer (ok, there's more to it, than "because I said so", but you know what I mean), and so we try to delve deeper into the whys. Yes, I have read Doug's report several times. I don't dispute it. I value it and share the link.
I simply would like even more info because I'm a terrier with a rat that way. Just as I would want to know why THAT washing machine costs more than the other, same applies to the lamp. I want to understand FULLY the 'whys'. I don't expect everyone to understand my nature. It's just how I am.

SO perhaps if folks followed SG-site rules, then MAYBE we wouldn't repeatedly have this debate.
And the rules state "thou shall use the search facility".

PS: just to note, in case anyone has missunderstood. No, I'm not skeptical about any company/brand/individual etc. I GREATLY respect all the above mentioned. I would prefer words not be put into my mouth. I just have unanswered questions, so don't confuse my inquisitive nature with cynicism or other because that's NOT what it is. Thank you.

 

[Crystal colleen]

And people wonder why I wrote my blog about shellac questions :lol:

Blahh blahh blahh at the end of the day use the lamp which goes with your system it isn't rocket science it's fact.

You would do this to ensure that the service you are given is the service you are advertising and that you are doing your best to get the most out of your product for you client and yourself and that it lasts I personally wouldn't want to take the risk in having clients complaining.

Yes some may have not had any clients come back but one day it may happen and then it's waisting products and your time and your clients all because you were cutting corners

I'm out I'm sick of hearing all this nonsense it BOARES me :lol:

Some should listen to the geeks that are professionals and been in the business longer than some of us have been alive because I tell you what they know much more than we do

 

[HWilliams]

Can I just say..?

Doug Schoon ROCKS!!!

The man is God.

I thank you.

H x

 

[NancySyd]

[*]Because other members of SG are advising the use of the CND lamp to cure other brands of gel etc (which imo, creates confusion).

I agree with most of your points, except this one. Other brands of gel/gel polishes usually are not that specific in stating what kind of CFL UV light to use. Most of them say "a 36 watt lamp," so using the CND light is okay - better than okay because you still get the benefit of CND quality. To some it may be confusing, but it is absolutely within what the manufacturer recommends, which is the issue.

I think we also have to remember that the light issue can be quite complex because while CFL UV lights emit a broad spectrum of light for a long period, LED UV lights emit a much narrower spectrum for a much shorter period. Being sure that the wavelength of the lamp matches the wavelength of the product is even more critical. KRR's experience demonstrates exactly how critical it can be. I've followed her story on aDIY board and it is indeed long and painful - not something you'd want to be responsible for doing to another person.

V, I really appreciate your "terrier with a rat tenacity," but I think that the answers you seek are already out there. They are not all in one place and you have to splice stuff together but I think they are there. They are in different places because they involve so many different aspects, so different people/companies have grabbed hold of different aspects of the issue. Some of this stuff is in technical articles, some in professional journals, some in blogs, some in Nails Magazine.

I'm not a marketing analyst, but I think in understanding CND (or any company's) insistence on using a particular device, you need to remember that it is not in a business's best interest to restrict the usage of its product in this way. By requiring the CND light, CND seriously limits its market penetration. I sometimes wonder if this could be like computer printers and cell phones. They sell the devices at much less than cost but make their money off of cartridges and cell phone plans. Maybe UV polish makers ought to just give away the lights so that we'll buy more and more and more polish!! :lol:

 

[Crystal colleen]

And people wonder why I wrote my blog about shellac questions :lol:

Blahh blahh blahh at the end of the day use the lamp which goes with your system it isn't rocket science it's fact.

You would do this to ensure that the service you are given is the service you are advertising and that you are doing your best to get the most out of your product for you client and yourself and that it lasts I personally wouldn't want to take the risk in having clients complaining.

Yes some may have not had any clients come back but one day it may happen and then it's waisting products and your time and your clients all because you were cutting corners


I'm out I'm sick of hearing all this nonsense it BOARES me :lol:

Some should listen to the geeks that are professionals and been in the business longer than some of us have been alive because I tell you what they know much more than we do

Would you put diesel in your petrol car because it is cheeper .......no you wouldn't :lol:

 

[VHunter]

See below for my comments

I agree with most of your points, except this one. Other brands of gel/gel polishes usually are not that specific in stating what kind of CFL UV light to use. Most of them say "a 36 watt lamp," so using the CND light is okay - better than okay because you still get the benefit of CND quality. To some it may be confusing, but it is absolutely within what the manufacturer recommends, which is the issue.

If you read Doug's article, you would know this is incorrect. If a brand produces a lamp for their system, then that's the lamp that needs to be used.
As Doug states, overcure is as possible as undercure.
Also, some brands are too small to afford producing their own lamp; but it doesn't necessarily mean that any old 36w/tunnel will do and PERHAPS that's why those brands don't do as well. Perhaps their system is flawed as a result of that, and that would be why it doesn't perform as well as CND/IBD/EZ FLOW/Gelish etc that do have particular lamps.

I think we also have to remember that the light issue can be quite complex because while CFL UV lights emit a broad spectrum of light for a long period, LED UV lights emit a much narrower spectrum for a much shorter period. Being sure that the wavelength of the lamp matches the wavelength of the product is even more critical. KRR's experience demonstrates exactly how critical it can be. I've followed her story on aDIY board and it is indeed long and painful - not something you'd want to be responsible for doing to another person.

Not being a science-major, you lost me a bit here, honestly. But with regards to KRR's experience, I definately agree. Hence why I encourage others to read Doug's article and use the appropriate lamp intended.

V, I really appreciate your "terrier with a rat tenacity," but I think that the answers you seek are already out there. They are not all in one place and you have to splice stuff together but I think they are there. They are in different places because they involve so many different aspects, so different people/companies have grabbed hold of different aspects of the issue. Some of this stuff is in technical articles, some in professional journals, some in blogs, some in Nails Magazine.

No, I don't feel that it is answered elsewhere as CND maintains that their lamp is very specific and different from others. I want to know specifically what makes it different and they are the only ones able to answer that.

I'm not a marketing analyst, but I think in understanding CND (or any company's) insistence on using a particular device, you need to remember that it is not in a business's best interest to restrict the usage of its product in this way. By requiring the CND light, CND seriously limits its market penetration. I sometimes wonder if this could be like computer printers and cell phones. They sell the devices at much less than cost but make their money off of cartridges and cell phone plans. Maybe UV polish makers ought to just give away the lights so that we'll buy more and more and more polish!! :lol:

I wouldn't mind if they did that LOL (gave away lamps haha)
With regards to their insistance on said lamp, and the risk that they limit market penetration as a result; THIS is why I think that their ARE legitimate reasons for their insistance and WHY I do NOT think it's a ploy.

 

[nails2nails]

If you read Doug's article, you would know this is incorrect. If a brand produces a lamp for their system, then that's the lamp that needs to be used.
As Doug states, overcure is as possible as undercure.
Also, some brands are too small to afford producing their own lamp; but it doesn't necessarily mean that any old 36w/tunnel will do and PERHAPS that's why those brands don't do as well. Perhaps their system is flawed as a result of that, and that would be why it doesn't perform as well as CND/IBD/EZ FLOW/Gelish etc that do have particular lamps.

So are you saying that say for example..Gelish is a company far to small to produce thier own lamp? Or that if they had more money they would make an expensive lamp designed for Gelish alone?

Now surely thats not right if a normal 36w tunnel lamp cures Gelish, why create a seperate lamp?

 

[Crystal colleen]

Would you put diesel in you petrol car coz it's cheeper :lol:

 

[nails2nails]

Would you put diesel in you petrol car coz it's cheeper :lol:

Im not sure these analogies are very helpful..I get the part where you use one system and all the kit/lamp that goes with it

What I want to know is what makes the cnd lamp/bulbs so different to any other 36w tunnel lamp

 

[Clairdestiny]

Wow some of you people know so much about the lamp subject!!!!!! May be you should design your own lamp and make it universal god you would be loaded lol :/))

 

[xxJackiexx]

Im not sure these analogies are very helpful..I get the part where you use one system and all the kit/lamp that goes with it

What I want to know is what makes the cnd lamp/bulbs so different to any other 36w tunnel lamp

They have been been proven to cure cnd products (brisa and shellac) through scientific research.

Other bulbs(non cnd ones) haven't to been proven through scientific research to cure the cnd products.
I couldn't give a monkeys if other brands say that any lamp will work with their products without actually proving it , my money and loyalty will be with CND , I like their products, and ethics and the fact that actually care enough about curing that they did their research and produced a lamp for their products.

Personally I'm not going to argue with proven science as I'm not a dimwit .

 

[Crystal colleen]

Im not sure these analogies are very helpful..I get the part where you use one system and all the kit/lamp that goes with it

What I want to know is what makes the cnd lamp/bulbs so different to any other 36w tunnel lamp

I'm sure you have already been told about it on here I've read it.

Weather my analogies are helpfull or not try doing you research u will fined out all you need to know go back over the posts and your question will be answered

 

[NancySyd]

See below for my comments


If you read Doug's article, you would know this is incorrect. If a brand produces a lamp for their system, then that's the lamp that needs to be used.
As Doug states, overcure is as possible as undercure.
Also, some brands are too small to afford producing their own lamp; but it doesn't necessarily mean that any old 36w/tunnel will do and PERHAPS that's why those brands don't do as well. Perhaps their system is flawed as a result of that, and that would be why it doesn't perform as well as CND/IBD/EZ FLOW/Gelish etc that do have particular lamps.

V, I must absolutely disagree - I have read all of Doug's articles and he is very clear that you should follow the manufacturer's recommendations and use their recommended devices. The CND light is what they recommend, not by name, but by description - a traditional 36 watt UV light. Before you respond, please go look at the websites and instructions for Gelish, Geleration, ACG and others. I took that quote directly from their pages. While each of these brands produces an LED UV light, they don't produce a CFL UV light and they recommend a 36 watt light which CND is. You may not like that they don't have their own lamp or you may think their product/service isn't as good as Shellac because of it - but if the issue is doing what the manufacturer recommends, the use of the CND CFL UV is well within those recommendations and is exactly what Doug advises.

 

[Crystal colleen]

They have been been proven to cure cnd products (brisa and shellac) through scientific research.

Other bulbs(non cnd ones) haven't to been proven through scientific research to cure the cnd products.
I couldn't give a monkeys if other brands say that any lamp will work with their products without actually proving it , my money and loyalty will be with CND , I like their products, and ethics and the fact that actually care enough about curing that they did their research and produced a lamp for their products.

Personally I'm not going to argue with proven science as I'm not a dimwit .

Tell me bout it boring boring boring same old **** differend day :lol:

 

[NancySyd]

Wow some of you people know so much about the lamp subject!!!!!! May be you should design your own lamp and make it universal god you would be loaded lol :/))

I actually have heard of people attempting to create a universal lamp - a combined CFL and LED UV lamp! But I think that would require access to proprietary information from each manufacturer.

I'd love a universal lamp with a five finger cure, motion activated. What else would a universal lamp have?

 

[unas escarlata]

Sometimes it feels like some of these posters are creating these threads without searching for the answers first to stir up trouble. There are two or three in this very thread that spring to mind.

I find myself reading the threads and snorting at their arrogance and ignorance, and downright rudeness in refusing to accept the facts from the experts.

I know I am using a complete system and delivering a high quality top brand service to my clients who are very important to me. I would never cut corners or compromise my service and bow to the superior knowledge of those who have worked hard to create a top brand in which we can have complete confidence.

 

[Clairdestiny]

I actually have heard of people attempting to create a universal lamp - a combined CFL and LED UV lamp! But I think that would require access to proprietary information from each manufacturer.

I'd love a universal lamp with a five finger cure, motion activated. What else would a universal lamp have?

Errrrrm wat eles would it have ?? It would have a little gigi that lives inside!! And when we do our nails we could sit her on top and she can tell us what to do lololol wouldnt that be great lol xx