Therapists doing own work

[Sugar & Spice]

Hi,

Could do with some advice! I have a therapist who has worked for me since Januray on a Self employed basis as she want to be for her child tax purposes... I did agree as was desperate at the time!!

She has come to me today to ask if I mind her renting a nail bar 10 miles away and doing mobile up to 5 miles away, I am not very happy about it as when I interviewed her I wanted some one who was flexible and could cover sick and holidays which she wouldn't want to do/ couldn't do if she has her own clients...

She also said she felt after managing a salon and being self employed in previous salons she felt she has taken a step back recently and at 33 would like to be working for herself more... do you think it is time to say good bye???

What do you think I should do ?? Help my head is spinning

 

[Nails<3]

That's the issue with self employed people. They technically don't have to cover anything for you. They run their own business inside yours. They just pay you as a landlord.

I would look for an employed therapist that way you can stipulate cover/hours etc in the contract.

Laura x

 

[TracyS]

I might be wrong but it sounds like you're seeing her more as an employee than self employed?

As self employed she can go wherever and whenever she wants - it's usually a 2 way thing that's worked out with the salon you rent in, but unfortunately, as I'm sure you know, she has no need to ask when it comes to other places she works, but she needs to be aware that likewise, you are free to rent out the space, when she is not paying for it, to another therapist.

Maybe it's time to ask yourself if you're happy with a renter or if you want an employee? I'd see that as the fundamental question atm

xx

 

[laurenbeautyroo]

I would have to say no because it is too near where she is working in your salon Which means she may leave so be prepared for that. X

 

[laurakate]

Hi,

Could do with some advice! I have a therapist who has worked for me since Januray on a Self employed basis as she want to be for her child tax purposes... I did agree as was desperate at the time!!

She has come to me today to ask if I mind her renting a nail bar 10 miles away and doing mobile up to 5 miles away, I am not very happy about it as when I interviewed her I wanted some one who was flexible and could cover sick and holidays which she wouldn't want to do/ couldn't do if she has her own clients...

She also said she felt after managing a salon and being self employed in previous salons she felt she has taken a step back recently and at 33 would like to be working for herself more... do you think it is time to say good bye???

What do you think I should do ?? Help my head is spinning

She's not your employee so it's ultimately up to her and in this respect i wouldn't consider her actions to be inappropriate. I would value her honesty when so many people wouldn't even tell you.

As long as you feel you can still work with her and that she adds value to your business i would keep her on board.

 

[Chrysalis]

I can see your issue here, and I actually do not agree with all the comments on being self employed means you can do anything you like!

When I had a salon I thought this issue might arise.

Therefore rather than renting my rooms on a self employed basis, I had contracts that were subcontracting, supplying those services and in the contract I specified what hours I wated hair and beauty services available in my salon.

They had a choice whether to provide those services as I required or not, they didn't have to sign it. So it's a different perspective on the self employed rent a room aspect.
In the NHS we subcontract lots of services, medical being one of them. So we would say when we wanted medical services available. I cringe when I see therapists saying no one was booked in my diary so I didn't bother going in.
If the doctors did that it would be chaos, you should have the professional available to provide treatments for walk ins and clients who call in the off chance.
I often think when I see some postings if those principles applied to all service providers the country would grind to a halt!

Hope my comments give you some food for thought

 

[Sugar & Spice]

Thank you for your comments, I wanted to employ her right from the start, she wanted to be self employed so she could claim the bare min so she could get her tax credits... I had just had an employee left and needs some one ASAP so I agreed, but now she has moved in with her new boyfriend she now needs extra money as she doesn't get tax credits any more.

it is not a 60/40 split or rent a room I pay her an hourly rate at the agreed hours so if she doesn't have any clients for the day she still gets paid if she was self employed eg 60/40 split or paid me room rate I wouldn't have a problem.... I just feel she wants her cake and eat it the security of the money I give her weekly and the ability to work on her own x

 

[TracyS]

It's a long time since I had anything to do with employment law but if Im honest it sounds like you're both on dodgy ground should Mr HMRC investigate. By receiving a 'wage' from one employer she is not, as I understand it, self employed, although I wait someone correcting me on this if it's not the case.

If I were in your shoes, you're employing someone anyway so I'd make sure whoever was there served the needs of the business, regardless of whether that is her or another therapist.

I hope you get it sorted

xx

 

[Chrysalis]

Time to say goodbye I think now then. As a previous poster has said she is forewarning you, so get advertising ASAP Xmas is looming you don't want to be without a therapist for Xmas.

She will prob rent that nail bar and do mobile but January can be quite and expect you to still pay her?

You already know your path I think you're just checking your feelings out. Get advertising ASAP!

 

[laurakate]

I can see your issue here, and I actually do not agree with all the comments on being self employed means you can do anything you like!

When I had a salon I thought this issue might arise.

Therefore rather than renting my rooms on a self employed basis, I had contracts that were subcontracting, supplying those services and in the contract I specified what hours I wated hair and beauty services available in my salon.

They had a choice whether to provide those services as I required or not, they didn't have to sign it. So it's a different perspective on the self employed rent a room aspect.
In the NHS we subcontract lots of services, medical being one of them. So we would say when we wanted medical services available. I cringe when I see therapists saying no one was booked in my diary so I didn't bother going in.
If the doctors did that it would be chaos, you should have the professional available to provide treatments for walk ins and clients who call in the off chance.
I often think when I see some postings if those principles applied to all service providers the country would grind to a halt!

Hope my comments give you some food for thought

There is no such thing as a quiet day at the nhs. The nhs is life or death. A quiet salon (for someone who is truely self employed) is a day wasted sitting around when you could be at the wholesalers or creating promotional material at home. Expecting someone to stay in the salon making no money on the off chance that they might get a walk in sounds like a waste of time to a lot of people who work hard when the bookings are there.

 

[Chrysalis]

There is no such thing as a quiet day at the nhs. The nhs is life or death. A quiet salon (for someone who is truely self employed) is a day wasted sitting around when you could be at the wholesalers or creating promotional material at home. Expecting someone to stay in the salon making no money on the off chance that they might get a walk in sounds like a waste of time to a lot of people who work hard when the bookings are there.

I disagree,
A closed salon is a business waiting to fail! Do you see tesco closing because no one has come in in the last half hour? No quiet time in the salon can be used constructively all you have said can be done whilst keeping the salon open.

As a client if I wanted to pop into a salon to ask more details about a particular treatment, or to book an appointment if it was closed, I doubt I would return. If I went in and the therapist had gone home because she was quiet I would think she wasn't very good.
I believe if you have your opening hours advertised then unless an emergency crops up the salon should be open with the staff in.
But then I've been in business and the NHS very successfully for many years now.

It would be interesting to hear comments from therapists who do go home when they are quiet how thier businesses are doing? Please let me hear a different view point from my own, if you can go home close the salon and your business thrive please let me know

 

[Miss Sparkle]

I'm self-employed. If I have spaces then I'm out on the shop floor trying to sell!

 

[Chrysalis]

I'm self-employed. If I have spaces then I'm out on the shop floor trying to sell!

You go girl! That will get you clients and respect in business, if you walk away then at least you know you have given your all to get the business growing xx

 

[laurakate]

I disagree,
A closed salon is a business waiting to fail! Do you see tesco closing because no one has come in in the last half hour? No quiet time in the salon can be used constructively all you have said can be done whilst keeping the salon open.

As a client if I wanted to pop into a salon to ask more details about a particular treatment, or to book an appointment if it was closed, I doubt I would return. If I went in and the therapist had gone home because she was quiet I would think she wasn't very good.
I believe if you have your opening hours advertised then unless an emergency crops up the salon should be open with the staff in.
But then I've been in business and the NHS very successfully for many years now.

It would be interesting to hear comments from therapists who do go home when they are quiet how thier businesses are doing? Please let me hear a different view point from my own, if you can go home close the salon and your business thrive please let me know

I agree that income will be more likely to be generated by making your business more accessible to potential clients. I reckon this is vital for businesses wanting to make as much money as possible and not risk losing potential clients.

On the other hand though, tesco is open all day because its employees are on a wage or salary so either way it is worth the individuals time in being there regardless of if it's busy or not. If a self employed therapist who isn't on an hourly wage doesn't feel like gambling lots of hours unpaid on getting one or two walk ins on an otherwise quiet day then I think that's fair play.

 

[Chrysalis]

Yes I see your point, I'd also expect that it's fair play to invoice the absentee therapist my hourly rate pro rata for the time I spent answering the phone to her clients, booking thier appointments, answering thier queries too as that is time taken away from my business to babysit someone else's and obviously business is business.

I did have an arrangement that if the therapist went home because they were quiet they would have to find a replacement to fill the void or I would. Strange they didn't seem to want to go home that often, this was all in my service level agreements with them.

Different perspectives, different lives

 

[laurakate]

Yes I see your point, I'd also expect that it's fair play to invoice the absentee therapist my hourly rate pro rata for the time I spent answering the phone to her clients, booking thier appointments, answering thier queries too as that is time taken away from my business to babysit someone else's and obviously business is business.

I did have an arrangement that if the therapist went home because they were quiet they would have to find a replacement to fill the void or I would. Strange they didn't seem to want to go home that often, this was all in my service level agreements with them.

Different perspectives, different lives

Ahh, I was assuming a situation where the therapist booked clients herself through her own diary and mobile phone only. Definitely a context dependant dilemma in such instance

 

[Chrysalis]

I think we might be the only two still awake debating!

 

[misslady]

Ahh, I was assuming a situation where the therapist booked clients herself through her own diary and mobile phone only. Definitely a context dependant dilemma in such instance

This is what I thought too. Most arrangements that I have seen have been like this. The owner just wants money for the rent and doesn't want to take any bookings, phone calls or be involved at all. This is where I feel the relationship breaks down a bit right from the start.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[Sugar & Spice]

I do feel I have to let her go but really didn't want it to come to this she is a good therapist and has a lot of experience. Her sister and Mum and step mum currently come to us, if she goes mobile they will go to her and then we have lost clients right from the beginning. So do I say right I employee you and the T&C's are set and this is what I expect and if she says no say sorry you will have to go then x

 

[muddi]

You could do as you say - change to being employed and carry on paying her as before but have set times and days when she has to be at the salon or if that doesn't suit her then tell he she will have to go self employed and rent the room - But you need to know what days she will be renting as you will need to find another therapist to cover the days she will not be in the room..

Im guessing she will prefer to move on... It does sound like she is wanting her cake and eat it all including the cherry on top! Yes it would be nice (for her) but you cannot run a business not knowing when she will be there etc and paying for her when she's earning money elsewhere doing the treatments she should be doing at yours.

You have to give and take, but sounds like she is wanting to do all the taking!