Gelish LED lamp

[Pinkprincess73]

Wow, this lamp issue has a life of its own! I, too, feel strongly about this, so maybe we should talk about it more, and more dispassionately.

I think it might be useful to review the science of gel polishes. First, both CFL-UV (compact fluorescent lamp) and LED-UV lamps generate the same light – UVA. They use different technologies to create it. The Science of Gels - Technique - NAILS Magazine The wavelength on the LED is narrower and the light more intense, but there is no evidence that LED-UV is “safer” than CFL-UV, which are already safe http://www.schoonscientific.com/downloads/UV-Nail-Lamp-Facts.pdf.

Secondly, the ingredient in gel polishes that cures it is the photoinitiators which respond to different wavelengths in the light, usually 300-400. So if the photoinitiator is one wavelength and the light is another, you can get a bad cure, not always visible to the naked eye. In addition, CND Shellac© says that because photoinitiators can cause sensitivity, they use fewer photo initiators in Shellac. That would explain why Shellac tends to be problematic curing in LED-UV lamps. http://www.cnd.com/Products/PDF/4965_Shellac_Q&A_Consumer.pdf

Finally, wattage is not what matters in curing, output is. 36 watts indicates how much power the lamp uses, not what it puts out. You’d need a spectrophotometer for that. So all 36 watt lamps are not the same. In addition to wattage and output, design elements like bulb placement, reflectors, fans, ergonomic hand placement all make a big difference in the cure. We all know that the “clench” can totally screw up a cure!

The bottom line as I see it? It is always best to use the manufacturer-specified lamp, because that is what they have determined through testing gives the best cure. For some brands, like CND Shellac© it is required to use lamp in order to be certified and use their trademarked name. Others, like HNH, ACG, etc., aren’t so specific. You’d go broke having lamp for every brand. You have to assess whether you can provide a proper, safe service using a different lamp – but you must do that as a fully informed professional, and not dismiss things as pseudo-science or profiteering just because it is inconvenient or disagreeable to you. A professional is expected to apply her education, training and experience to provide the most appropriate and customized service to each client. Our cost, convenience and profit must never interfere with doing what’s right for the client.

Amen x

 

[Pinkprincess73]

skipping forward a few months I can see the thread titles "please help" or "urgent" my client now thinks she's allergic to shellac. No sh*t Sherlock.

Christ someone tell me I was never this rude or disrespectful of science and experience.

Lol x

 

[kattyj]

Hi I have one of those croissant shaped lamps !! 12w led !! I cure foundation 30 seconds and each colour cost 60 seconds and top coat 90 seconds .... How long do you do it for ?? As sometimes I feel that I don't have enough faith in my lamp !

If I remember from a previous post didnt you say you almost wiped most of your colour off after one of your applications? Its just that my friend bought that lamp you are describing and asked me to do her nails with it, after spending time doing a beautiful set of Tiger Blossom, the whole lot practically wiped off at the end!!

She ended up curing it for way over the recommended amount of time which kinda defeated the object of the speed of the LED lamp x

 

[Bea Dhanji]

Katty ... Yes that did happen, but I'm so pleased that it's not happened again, in fact I've just done a starburst gelish Mani this afternoon, with no problems ..... Whoopee !!

I'll keep plodding along with my croissant lamp for the time being, and maybe once I'm properly up and running by a harmony one !!

 

[NancySyd]

Some people believe in a God and others do not. I'm not preaching about LED lamps but simply offering an alternative point of view.

For example, how many of you are aware that mathematicians can prove that 1+1 does not = 2? Science is a perspective that is always open to interpretation.

Sometimes a person will suffer an allergic reaction to a substance that they previously tolerated. It happens.

If you want to stick with the range of products from one brand that's fine, but please do not try to bully the rest of us into submission by inferring that we are somewhat less professional.

To my mind, it's like trying to argue that you are a better driver if you drive a new BMW/Mercedes compared to someone driving a clapped out Fiesta.

Someone asked a reasonable question and I gave an opinion based on my own experience, not someone else's.

Live and let live, I say.:lol:

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me. This is not about belief in God or theoretical mathematics; this science is not "open to interpretation." The science in this discussion is about something researched, tested and demonstrable. And while "live and let live" may work in one's personal life, when you join a community of professionals, your actions have consequences that go beyond you. Isn't that why we're on this forum to begin with?

No one is arguing that a more expensive lamp is a better lamp. What is being argued is that Shellac's lamp is likely better for Shellac, moreover that CND/Shellac© insists that it is and that if you want to minimize problems for your clients you are better off using their tools and products. If not, you'd better have a darned good, well-researched justification for it. In this litigious world, You just may have to answer for it.

 

[NancySyd]

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me. This is not about belief in God or theoretical mathematics; this science is not "open to interpretation." The science in this discussion is about something researched, tested and demonstrable. And while "live and let live" may work in one's personal life, when you join a community of professionals, your actions have consequences that go beyond you. Isn't that why we're on this forum to begin with?

No one is arguing that a more expensive lamp is a better lamp. What is being argued is that Shellac's lamp is likely better for Shellac, moreover that CND/Shellac© insists that it is and that if you want to minimize problems for your clients you are better off using their tools and products. If not, you'd better have a darned good, well-researched justification for it. In this litigious world, You just may have to answer for it.

Oops, there went my commitment to "dispassionate."

 

[kattyj]

Katty ... Yes that did happen, but I'm so pleased that it's not happened again, in fact I've just done a starburst gelish Mani this afternoon, with no problems ..... Whoopee !!

I'll keep plodding along with my croissant lamp for the time being, and maybe once I'm properly up and running by a harmony one !!

Great news, well done!!

 

[mum]

Some people believe in a God and others do not. I'm not preaching about LED lamps but simply offering an alternative point of view.

For example, how many of you are aware that mathematicians can prove that 1+1 does not = 2? Science is a perspective that is always open to interpretation.

Sometimes a person will suffer an allergic reaction to a substance that they previously tolerated. It happens.

If you want to stick with the range of products from one brand that's fine, but please do not try to bully the rest of us into submission by inferring that we are somewhat less professional.

To my mind, it's like trying to argue that you are a better driver if you drive a new BMW/Mercedes compared to someone driving a clapped out Fiesta.

Someone asked a reasonable question and I gave an opinion based on my own experience, not someone else's.

Live and let live, I say.:lol:

So now, together with pseudo science, we have bullying.

Not just scientific facts and informed advice?

As you say, opinions. I know which route I prefer.

 

[ValencianNails]

Some people believe in a God and others do not. I'm not preaching about LED lamps but simply offering an alternative point of view.
We're not discussing religion here but the health of your clients and your reputation as a 'professional' who knows what they're doing and has ethics!!!

For example, how many of you are aware that mathematicians can prove that 1+1 does not = 2? Science is a perspective that is always open to interpretation.

Sometimes a person will suffer an allergic reaction to a substance that they previously tolerated. It happens.

If you want to stick with the range of products from one brand that's fine, but please do not try to bully the rest of us into submission by inferring that we are somewhat less professional.
Most distributors make virtually no profit (or very low) on UV lamps, they don't sell them as a gimic but because science has proved that higher end products cure 100% by using the UV lamp designed for them.

Please explain to everyone exactly HOW you know that your generic lamp is giving you a full cure with the products you're using it with.

To my mind, it's like trying to argue that you are a better driver if you drive a new BMW/Mercedes compared to someone driving a clapped out Fiesta.

Someone asked a reasonable question and I gave an opinion based on my own experience, not someone else's.

Live and let live, I say.:lol:

Lucky for me then that I don't live in the States.:lol:

If someone sued you due to an allergic reaction your insurance company would not cover you if you're not using the full system, and that includes the UV lamp you use. Maybe it's more a case of 'lucky for you' that you haven't had to go through that yet?

To be honest I (along with many others) are getting sick and tired of trying to bang home the FACTS about using the correct UV lamp for the system they're intended to be used with.
Doug Schoon is a highly respected scientist, a link has been provided in this thread (and many other threads) and yet STILL he's being called a liar by some (or as good as)!

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

Some people believe in a God and others do not. I'm not preaching about LED lamps but simply offering an alternative point of view. Religion is based on believe, faith and spiritual values. Nail technology is technical science. Chemical reactions and interactions.

For example, how many of you are aware that mathematicians can prove that 1+1 does not = 2? Science is a perspective that is always open to interpretation. I googled this and the mathematicians have some interesting answers, but also say that, the base line is you cannot dived something by zero, which you would have to do to get the not =2 answer, so its not really proven is it. Our times table is based on 1+1=2, so maybe your accountant would have to re evaluate his calculations then.....

Sometimes a person will suffer an allergic reaction to a substance that they previously tolerated. It happens. Yes that can happen, but when we take care and follow manufacturers guidelines we can reduce that risk.

If you want to stick with the range of products from one brand that's fine, but please do not try to bully the rest of us into submission by inferring that we are somewhat less professional. No one is bullying, but we work hard on educating Technicians, this education is passed down to us by people that work hard in research and development, Dough Schoon, Paul Bryson O.P.I R&S are just two off the top of my head. They want us to work safely, correctly and with our clients best interest at heart.

To my mind, it's like trying to argue that you are a better driver if you drive a new BMW/Mercedes compared to someone driving a clapped out Fiesta.
Hmm but what if your cars have petrol engines and you put diesel in them, its fuel right, what would happen???? It will make you a driver who's car has broken down and is going no where.

Someone asked a reasonable question and I gave an opinion based on my own experience, not someone else's.
Opinions are great, we all have them and yes we should share them. But when a scientific fact is ignored and replaced by a non scientific proven opinion, it stays just that and doesn't become automaticly a fact.

Live and let live, I say.:lol:

Just check with your insurance company that you are covered, you may not be, if you are not following manufactures guidelines. Better still just email Doug and ask him what he thinks.
[email protected]

Now back to my Voddy and Orange xxxx

 

[NancySyd]

Sorry, I just re-read that and I didn't mean it to sound rude. I actually meant I was grateful for living in a less litigious environment in the UK.

Seriously, I appreciate that in the US, litigation for negligence is quite a different beast to here in the UK and our courts have been strenuously reluctant to follow the US example. The burden of proof required is quite different.

While those of us in the states may have a more litigious environment, I would hope that the decision to protect clients (and yourselves) by following manufacturer's instructions would be based on one's professionalism, not on the threat of litigation.

Now, I'm not arguing for mindless allegiance to instructions/products/tools. As a professional, one is expected to bring one's experience, training and education to customize the service for the client. So, I don't see the big deal in making small adjustments. I do think that perhaps changing the lamp may be a bigger adjustment than can be justified (CND/Shellac® thinks that changing the lamp is too big an adjustment), especially when the reason for that adjustment is the salon's cost, convenience and profit rather than the clients' needs.

 

[Lolly22]

These lamp questions are getting really old! If people want to ignore the science then I am not going to bother explaining to them anymore. I don't understand why people want to argue with science, it just makes you all seem so cheap if you want to scrimp on a lamp and your clients safety what else do tou scrimp on?

And as unas escarleta said I can see the problem threads coming up on the future "my client is suing me because she Has taken a reaction to my under or over cured product"

 

[geeg]

And as unas escarleta said I can see the problem threads coming up on the future "my client is suing me because she Has taken a reaction to my under or over cured product"

The ones who don't comply with manufacturers guidelines won't have a future as they won't keep their clients. Clients who suffer from service breakdown go elsewhere. I think a better user name would be 'bumble bungle', as keep bumbling along and bungling the job.

I think it is utterly sad that some choose to mistrust everyone and even carry on arguing in the face of all the facts. Some sceptics will say, oh well Doug Schoon and paul have vested interests in the nail industry so how can we trust what they say?" Well the information contained in the report was all carried out by independent experts in UV light who were nothing to do with the nail industry. If 'bumble bungle' and other equally uninformed people actually read the report of course, they would know that.

Now I for one am heartily sick to death and bored to death with this subject and those ignorant 'know nothings' who think they know better and mistrust everyone and everything as if it were some giant conspiracy to con people into buying a stupid lamp.

Arguing with ignorance is the biggest time waster of all. I feel exactly like all parents when they tell their children ... "i'm only telling you this for your OWN good!" children think they know it all too, don't they? We all know, of course, that they do not really know anything until they get into trouble and 'come a cropper' ( sorry, British expression that means ... They fall on their butts!). Work smart people ... Please.

 

[Lolly22]

The ones who don't comply with manufacturers guidelines won't have a future as they won't keep their clients. Clients who suffer from service breakdown go elsewhere. I think a better user name would be 'bumble bungle', as keep bumbling along and bungling the job.

I think it is utterly sad that some choose to mistrust everyone and even carry on arguing in the face of all the facts. Some sceptics will say, oh well Doug Schoon and paul have vested interests in the nail industry so how can we trust what they say?" Well the information contained in the report was all carried out by independent experts in UV light who were nothing to do with the nail industry. If 'bumble bungle' and other equally uninformed people actually read the report of course, they would know that.

Now I for one am heartily sick to death and bored to death with this subject and those ignorant 'know nothings' who think they know better and mistrust everyone and everything as if it were some giant conspiracy to con people into buying a stupid lamp.

Arguing with ignorance is the biggest time waster of all. I feel exactly like all parents when they tell their children ... "i'm only telling you this for your OWN good!" children think they know it all too, don't they? We all know, of course, that they do not really know anything until they get into trouble and 'come a cropper' ( sorry, British expression that means ... They fall on their butts!). Work smart people ... Please.

Here here!

 

[NancySyd]

While I agree that it is a PITA to argue with people who refuse to deal in facts, I think we have to remember that we're not really talking just to that individual, but to the other members and lurkers. For everyone that posts here, there are possibly hundreds who simply lurk and read. Getting the facts out to them is as important as impacting the opinion of the poster. So, keep on putting forward the facts on this and other issues, there are a lot of others watching and learning (like me):biggrin:.

The ones who don't comply with manufacturers guidelines won't have a future as they won't keep their clients. Clients who suffer from service breakdown go elsewhere. I think a better user name would be 'bumble bungle', as keep bumbling along and bungling the job.

I think it is utterly sad that some choose to mistrust everyone and even carry on arguing in the face of all the facts. Some sceptics will say, oh well Doug Schoon and paul have vested interests in the nail industry so how can we trust what they say?" Well the information contained in the report was all carried out by independent experts in UV light who were nothing to do with the nail industry. If 'bumble bungle' and other equally uninformed people actually read the report of course, they would know that.

Now I for one am heartily sick to death and bored to death with this subject and those ignorant 'know nothings' who think they know better and mistrust everyone and everything as if it were some giant conspiracy to con people into buying a stupid lamp.

Arguing with ignorance is the biggest time waster of all. I feel exactly like all parents when they tell their children ... "i'm only telling you this for your OWN good!" children think they know it all too, don't they? We all know, of course, that they do not really know anything until they get into trouble and 'come a cropper' ( sorry, British expression that means ... They fall on their butts!). Work smart people ... Please.

 

[Planky1]

The ones who don't comply with manufacturers guidelines won't have a future as they won't keep their clients. Clients who suffer from service breakdown go elsewhere. I think a better user name would be 'bumble bungle', as keep bumbling along and bungling the job.

I think it is utterly sad that some choose to mistrust everyone and even carry on arguing in the face of all the facts. Some sceptics will say, oh well Doug Schoon and paul have vested interests in the nail industry so how can we trust what they say?" Well the information contained in the report was all carried out by independent experts in UV light who were nothing to do with the nail industry. If 'bumble bungle' and other equally uninformed people actually read the report of course, they would know that.

Now I for one am heartily sick to death and bored to death with this subject and those ignorant 'know nothings' who think they know better and mistrust everyone and everything as if it were some giant conspiracy to con people into buying a stupid lamp.

Arguing with ignorance is the biggest time waster of all. I feel exactly like all parents when they tell their children ... "i'm only telling you this for your OWN good!" children think they know it all too, don't they? We all know, of course, that they do not really know anything until they get into trouble and 'come a cropper' ( sorry, British expression that means ... They fall on their butts!). Work smart people ... Please.

Well said and totally agree. Wanted to rep you for this but I have to spread the love :hug:

 

[Ammej85]

I have noticed a few posts on several threads about lamps, gel polishes, GELeration etc that are posed as a member, but to me are coming across as subtle SPAM. Anyone else thought the same?

 

[Pinkprincess73]

Oh I never ! Will look out,report it if you think so the mods will check x

 

[ValencianNails]

I have noticed a few posts on several threads about lamps, gel polishes, GELeration etc that are posed as a member, but to me are coming across as subtle SPAM. Anyone else thought the same?

Can you either send me a private message please with a link to the thread and details or click the red button on the relevant post so that the mod team can take a closer look? Thanks

 

[Ammej85]

Can you either send me a private message please with a link to the thread and details or click the red button on the relevant post so that the mod team can take a closer look? Thanks

Done :wink2: