CMsiennaX
Active Member
Hi Cherrybaby,
We're sorry you didn't receive the email. Can you pop me a PM with your name and email address? I'll check our mailing list and see if you're on it - I can add you to it if not.
Illegal from June to offer more than a 14% tan
- Thread starter Lush-Lash
- Start date
Help Support SalonGeek:
Hi Cherrybaby,
We're sorry you didn't receive the email. Can you pop me a PM with your name and email address? I'll check our mailing list and see if you're on it - I can add you to it if not.
CMsiennaX
Active Member
Hi all,
If you didn't receive the email we sent across, we posted a new thread on here detailing our stance on the situation.
If you missed it, please see the below:
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We just wanted to take the time to clarify the current status of DHA over 14%.
There is no legislation that has come in banning DHA above 14%, as per the 2010 report, they may eventually limit it, but it certainly has not come into effect this month. All of our solutions have been safety assessed and are uploaded onto the Cosmetic Portal as per EU Directive.
There is generally some confusion in the industry regarding the level, the EU report didnt test above this level as it has only become a more recent trend to go with the darker formulations, so it wasnt widely in use at the time of their report. Some companies have made a decision not to go higher, Sienna X only goes as high as 16% and this product, like all others has been rigorously tested and is not harmful or indeed, illegal, in any way.
You can view the report by clicking here.
There was a lively debate on this forum surrounding this topic, and the confusion is apparent. Rest assured that there is nothing illegal about using 14% and above of DHA in tanning, and if this situation changes we will be notified with plenty of time to take action by the EU and would of course inform our customers accordingly.
The EU gives a significant amount of notice in the passing of a law, this debate got going in May, there would have been no way that it would only have arisen then to take immediate effect in July.
There may be alternative answers from other tanning suppliers whose chemists are not willing to sign off above 14% because the EU didnt test above this level, however, we have carried out our due diligence testing on stability and compatibility and the products are stable and safe.
If this situation does change we will notify all customers immediately to give time to cease using 14%, but for now, please be comfortable in continuing with business as usual.
General advice surrounding DHA use from Sienna X:
DHA over 14% should only be used on those with darker complexions as the DHA works with the amount of melanin in the skin, therefore, we would recommend its use be confined to this skin tone category. If used on fairer complexions it is unlikely to look as natural as matching the correct percentage as recommended to the clients skin tone.
If you have any further enquiries, please don't hesitate to call us on 0800 131 3151, or email us at [email protected].
Kind Regards,
The Sienna X Team
If you didn't receive the email we sent across, we posted a new thread on here detailing our stance on the situation.
If you missed it, please see the below:
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
We just wanted to take the time to clarify the current status of DHA over 14%.
There is no legislation that has come in banning DHA above 14%, as per the 2010 report, they may eventually limit it, but it certainly has not come into effect this month. All of our solutions have been safety assessed and are uploaded onto the Cosmetic Portal as per EU Directive.
There is generally some confusion in the industry regarding the level, the EU report didnt test above this level as it has only become a more recent trend to go with the darker formulations, so it wasnt widely in use at the time of their report. Some companies have made a decision not to go higher, Sienna X only goes as high as 16% and this product, like all others has been rigorously tested and is not harmful or indeed, illegal, in any way.
You can view the report by clicking here.
There was a lively debate on this forum surrounding this topic, and the confusion is apparent. Rest assured that there is nothing illegal about using 14% and above of DHA in tanning, and if this situation changes we will be notified with plenty of time to take action by the EU and would of course inform our customers accordingly.
The EU gives a significant amount of notice in the passing of a law, this debate got going in May, there would have been no way that it would only have arisen then to take immediate effect in July.
There may be alternative answers from other tanning suppliers whose chemists are not willing to sign off above 14% because the EU didnt test above this level, however, we have carried out our due diligence testing on stability and compatibility and the products are stable and safe.
If this situation does change we will notify all customers immediately to give time to cease using 14%, but for now, please be comfortable in continuing with business as usual.
General advice surrounding DHA use from Sienna X:
DHA over 14% should only be used on those with darker complexions as the DHA works with the amount of melanin in the skin, therefore, we would recommend its use be confined to this skin tone category. If used on fairer complexions it is unlikely to look as natural as matching the correct percentage as recommended to the clients skin tone.
If you have any further enquiries, please don't hesitate to call us on 0800 131 3151, or email us at [email protected].
Kind Regards,
The Sienna X Team
cherrybaby
Well-Known Member
Nikinkibabyx
Well-Known Member
Does this mean fast tans won't be available ? I don't understand why some companies are falling suit and some not ! I love 16% on clients and its what I've used most of ! Xx
Know how you feel, I have been using a lot of LA 18% lately but they have stopped making it! Was going to move on to Novatan because I like them too but they only do 1litre bottles and that's just too much for me, it would be off before I would have used the bottle
Nikinkibabyx
Well-Known Member
Know how you feel, I have been using a lot of LA 18% lately but they have stopped making it! Was going to move on to Novatan because I like them too but they only do 1litre bottles and that's just too much for me, it would be off before I would have used the bottle
I use OMG and they've stopped producing 16 and 20
! I think I'm going to trial nouvatan.. Been saying it for ages but definitely think this is the time to start! The range they offer is so wide and can be mixed.. So you not do alot of tans or do you not do alot of the same colour ? Xx
I use OMG and they've stopped producing 16 and 20
I think I'm going to trial nouvatan.. Been saying it for ages but definitely think this is the time to start! The range they offer is so wide and can be mixed.. So you not do alot of tans or do you not do alot of the same colour ? Xx
I generally use medium and dark the most.
If I bought a litre that would be 20 tans that would need to be done in 6 months after opening the bottle, that's right isn't it???! I wouldnt do 20 of each shade in 6 months, so pointless buying bigger bottles
I'm only a very little part time business, so the smaller quantities suit me fine! Which is why LA tanning were brilliant. I'm sure I read on their facebook page that their going to bring out a 14% which will be quite dark?
I rang LA tan yesterday for some info, there making there disco a 14% so exactly the same colour as 18% disco just lighter, they have already got cocktail which is a 14% but its a golden tan (I'm not keen on this colour) so there new 14% will be brown based tan just like the disco, there fast tan will still be available according to LA headquarters & they don't plan on stopping producing this x
Nikinkibabyx
Well-Known Member
I generally use medium and dark the most.
If I bought a litre that would be 20 tans that would need to be done in 6 months after opening the bottle, that's right isn't it???! I wouldnt do 20 of each shade in 6 months, so pointless buying bigger bottles
I'm only a very little part time business, so the smaller quantities suit me fine! Which is why LA tanning were brilliant. I'm sure I read on their facebook page that their going to bring out a 14% which will be quite dark?
The good thing with nouvatan is you can mix them ? So you could buy a few shades and offer them plus their mixed shades ? Maybe buy an 8,12 and 20? And you can also make a 10, 14, and 16 from them xx
Catherine S
Well-Known Member
What I find so frustrating about this entire debate is that no tanning company needs to offer a tan over 14%. Most companies are withdrawing their high DHA content solutions from the market, another comes on here all guns blazing proudly boasting that they intend to flout the EU safety recommendations (I'm sorry, but in what other area of your life would you all run and buy a product from a company that says "yeah, everyone else is following EU recommendations on safety standards, but we've made the decision to go against these recommendations. Buy from us!" Would you buy from a car manufacturer who said that? Would you eat food from a supplier who said that?).
Your 18% and 20% solutions may make you darker, but its 20% DHA content is not the reason why. You can see a rudimentary experiment/explanation of DHA strength here. This is only meant to be illustrative, there are plenty of scientific papers out there if you want to see the results of controlled research.
It's only DHA that the SCCS is recommending to reduce, so why go against safety recommendations and keep high concentrations in there? Why not offer customers an extra-dark option without the excessive, pointlessly high DHA? A bit of honesty from some people in this industry is sorely needed.
Your 18% and 20% solutions may make you darker, but its 20% DHA content is not the reason why. You can see a rudimentary experiment/explanation of DHA strength here. This is only meant to be illustrative, there are plenty of scientific papers out there if you want to see the results of controlled research.
It's only DHA that the SCCS is recommending to reduce, so why go against safety recommendations and keep high concentrations in there? Why not offer customers an extra-dark option without the excessive, pointlessly high DHA? A bit of honesty from some people in this industry is sorely needed.
Baggybear
Well-Known Member
It is not flouting the EU safety recommendations to continue producing the high DHA solutions if the chemist signs to say it's a safe & stable product.
I see it as cornering the market in an area that many companies wanted to be part of but are unable or unwilling to find a chemist willing to sign off their higher DHA products as safe & stable for the EU legislation not coming on here "all guns blazing proudly boastin that they intend to flout the EU safety recommendations".
As for this bit:
(I'm sorry, but in what other area of your life would you all run and buy a product from a company that says "yeah, everyone else is following EU recommendations on safety standards, but we've made the decision to go against these recommendations. Buy from us!" Would you buy from a car manufacturer who said that? Would you eat food from a supplier who said that?).
I would if I knew the product was safe, I mean there are places that sell food that is very close to or passed it's best before date & I buy from them as I know the food is fine, it may not taste as good as it would before the date on it but it is still perfectly safe to eat it & most of the time tastes just the same as it would before the date on it. Here is one such site I buy from: The biggest online seller of clearance food and drinks | Approved Food. Sometimes I think there are too many rules & regulations and the PC world we live in is getting out of hand, many rules & regulations are only there now because a small minority are too thick to do the sensible thing.
I see it as cornering the market in an area that many companies wanted to be part of but are unable or unwilling to find a chemist willing to sign off their higher DHA products as safe & stable for the EU legislation not coming on here "all guns blazing proudly boastin that they intend to flout the EU safety recommendations".
As for this bit:
(I'm sorry, but in what other area of your life would you all run and buy a product from a company that says "yeah, everyone else is following EU recommendations on safety standards, but we've made the decision to go against these recommendations. Buy from us!" Would you buy from a car manufacturer who said that? Would you eat food from a supplier who said that?).
I would if I knew the product was safe, I mean there are places that sell food that is very close to or passed it's best before date & I buy from them as I know the food is fine, it may not taste as good as it would before the date on it but it is still perfectly safe to eat it & most of the time tastes just the same as it would before the date on it. Here is one such site I buy from: The biggest online seller of clearance food and drinks | Approved Food. Sometimes I think there are too many rules & regulations and the PC world we live in is getting out of hand, many rules & regulations are only there now because a small minority are too thick to do the sensible thing.
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Nails<3
Well-Known Member
Well said Baggy.
Wish people would just get off this deadly tanning over 14% bandwagon.
I trust my supplier and not posts on here twisting articles and posts to suit them.
Xx
Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app
Wish people would just get off this deadly tanning over 14% bandwagon.
I trust my supplier and not posts on here twisting articles and posts to suit them.
Xx
Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app
Catherine S
Well-Known Member
"It is not flouting the EU safety recommendations to continue producing the high DHA solutions if the chemist signs to say it's a safe & stable product." Yes, it is. By definition, it is. How can you even attempt to deny this? Tell me, what does the EU recommend as the limit for tanning solutions? Then explain to me how exactly an 18% DHA solution is not against that recommendation?
"I see it as cornering the market in an area that many companies wanted to be part of but are unable or unwilling to find a chemist willing to sign off their higher DHA products as safe & stable for the EU legislation" - unwilling, yes. Not unable. And unwilling for good reason.
You've still failed to address my main point: why make something which has these potential issues surrounding it - whether you believe them to be of any significant risk or not - when it is ineffective anyway? Why take the risk? The only reason a company would be willing to take that risk is pure greed.
Ok, and if you would take that risk (but your brand doesn't make high DHA solutions any more so I guess you don't?), that's fine - just so long as you're making sure your clients are making an informed choice also?
"I see it as cornering the market in an area that many companies wanted to be part of but are unable or unwilling to find a chemist willing to sign off their higher DHA products as safe & stable for the EU legislation" - unwilling, yes. Not unable. And unwilling for good reason.
You've still failed to address my main point: why make something which has these potential issues surrounding it - whether you believe them to be of any significant risk or not - when it is ineffective anyway? Why take the risk? The only reason a company would be willing to take that risk is pure greed.
Ok, and if you would take that risk (but your brand doesn't make high DHA solutions any more so I guess you don't?), that's fine - just so long as you're making sure your clients are making an informed choice also?
wonderwoman
Well-Known Member
personally i call this scaremongering..... why on earth have 50% DHA booster drops...????? if anything according to you is higher than 14 it is not safe or stable.....risk selling dha boosters of 36%- 50% (see the irony as many brands sell boosters) hmmm i dont think this thread posts an informed consensus on boosters drops. nothing stops the end user from using this. xoxo
xxAmyxx
Well-Known Member
If the chemist signs to say it's a safe & stable product, then what's the problem?
Catherine S
Well-Known Member
wonderwoman: you're absolutely right. Booster drops take the control out of the hands of the brands and into the hands of the technicians, who could use them to bring the DHA above the recommended level if they wished to. I've wondered where the rules / 'recommendations' stand on this too. Right now, it's all such a grey area, but I'm guessing it'll get more specific over time. However, given what we know about DHA, it seems a pointless waste of an expensive product to try adding booster drops to anything that's already at 14% anyway. So presumably no spray tan technician who understood anything about DHA would try it anyway?
Amy: All I want is for someone to answer my question. People can go on about 'scaremongering' etc. all they like, but until someone can explain to me why anyone would even take the risk, I'm afraid I just don't get it.
Amy: All I want is for someone to answer my question. People can go on about 'scaremongering' etc. all they like, but until someone can explain to me why anyone would even take the risk, I'm afraid I just don't get it.
sparkle_beauty
Well-Known Member
I cannot believe that professional spray tan companies are coming on to here and slating other tanning companies! It unprofessional and totally puts me off using a brand.
The only reason that the EU recommendations are only up to 14% is because when they did the testing in 2010 that's all they tested up to as the higher & solutions weren't as popular then.
After reading this post and certain comments from other tanning companies i know who i will be using, and it's not for the fact they are still producing higher % solutions.
I know of two other companies which have stopped producing there higher % solutions from the 11th July but before this date they produced higher amounts of the solution so people can still buy the product, so although they are no longer producing as there chemist will not sign it off there still willing to sell it and haven't taken the product of the shelves which to me says it's not the fact that the products with high DHA %'s in them are unsafe it's just hard/costly to find a new chemist willing to put there name to it.
The only reason that the EU recommendations are only up to 14% is because when they did the testing in 2010 that's all they tested up to as the higher & solutions weren't as popular then.
After reading this post and certain comments from other tanning companies i know who i will be using, and it's not for the fact they are still producing higher % solutions.
I know of two other companies which have stopped producing there higher % solutions from the 11th July but before this date they produced higher amounts of the solution so people can still buy the product, so although they are no longer producing as there chemist will not sign it off there still willing to sell it and haven't taken the product of the shelves which to me says it's not the fact that the products with high DHA %'s in them are unsafe it's just hard/costly to find a new chemist willing to put there name to it.
Catherine S
Well-Known Member
sparkle: I totally agree with your comment about the unprofessionalism of companies 'slating' other companies, I only hope that you've had a thorough read over this thread and that your opinion on this is not misdirected.
Unfortunately, you have still not answered my question. Nobody has. I suppose nobody will?
We can all agree:
So my question is, if there is ANY element of doubt as to the safety of this chemical (no matter how tiny), given that it does nothing for your tan above 14%*, why take that risk?
This topic will continue to go round in circles unless anybody wishes to answer that question.
* Please don't reply back with "but my 18% is darker than my 14%!!!", I am talking about DHA only - not the other ingredients that make your skin darker in a tan - as DHA is the topic of this entire thread.
Unfortunately, you have still not answered my question. Nobody has. I suppose nobody will?
We can all agree:
- DHA is a chemical
- Whether you believe it's safe to spray extremely high concentrations of any chemical on your skin or not, we can at least all agree that scientific research on this chemical is still ongoing and inconclusive - if it was conclusive, we wouldn't currently have a 10 page forum discussion on the topic.
- But what IS known as fact is that it is ineffective on human skin past a threshold of 12-14%. You don't have to believe every scientific paper every written on the subject, and you don't have to believe me. Try it yourself. Buy raw DHA, make a primitive solution, and apply it at different strengths to your skin and see what happens.
So my question is, if there is ANY element of doubt as to the safety of this chemical (no matter how tiny), given that it does nothing for your tan above 14%*, why take that risk?
This topic will continue to go round in circles unless anybody wishes to answer that question.
* Please don't reply back with "but my 18% is darker than my 14%!!!", I am talking about DHA only - not the other ingredients that make your skin darker in a tan - as DHA is the topic of this entire thread.
Baggybear
Well-Known Member
You are right in saying my chosen brand has stopped producing the higher percent solution, but I didn't use that solution so my choice of brand and solutions that I use has been unaffected, the company are also going to produce a new solution in the hope of providing a solution that gives almost (if not the same) colour as the solution they have just stopped producing.
So what you are saying is that those solutions that DO give a darker tan and state they are 16%/18%/20% must have DHA & something else in them that makes the tan darker.
If that is the case surely the companies would say so (like those that tell us they are using erytherlose) and they wouldn't be needing to stop production of them as they would only have 14% DHA in them with whatever else it is they are using to give that extra colour.
