Is honesty your best policy when offering critique?

[cro-mari]

Hi everyone,
for some time I have been contemplating about something, and now I thought I might share it with you and see what you all say.

There's been so much threads about it already and every time it ends with - we are nice people, helping, but not doing anybody's homework, we respect everybody's taste but there's a certain standard... we all were beginers and made mistakes and someone pointed us to the right direction... but something still itches me, iykwim...

... yes, I'm talking about nail critiques.

I look at them, but I don't comment, because I don't always feel competent enough, but mostly because someone might go to my photos and say - who are you to judge, and they might be right... because I'm not some CND catalogue material :green: Sometimes someone posts such beautiful work and I'm stunned, and then I just pm them my admiration or a few questions.

...but ... In the last few months there have been some... how should I put it... ah... horrible nails! Horrible! That I even wondered did they just put on tips and nail polish on, no apex, flared, all wrong and uneven, my first sets had more balance... and poster says, look at my new nail art (nothing about shape, form, like it doesn't matter if the 'nail art' is on...) And then peeps say, oh, how cute, nice work, blah blah, and then that person (no one in particular, I'm talking in general) swamps us with another drop of white tips longer than nail bed and strawberries glittery gems kind of junk smudged over the bad nails...

Remember that Tawyarn (or something like that) girl posting those horribly curved nails and how everyone jumped at her saying ah, that cannot be?! She said, it pays my bills, but everyone kicked her and she never came back. I'm not defending her, but if her nails we're too curved, how no one reacts the same to any other bad set of nails, curved or not?

I don't mind strawberries and glitter, I just think that properly balanced and shaped nail is imperative. Go from that. My work may not be perfect, but I did not bother with too much art untill I got rid of lifting and straightened that ray of light and the center of the nail! You can't make nails better and stronger just by painting on them. It's like trying to walk through mud on high heels.

I'm not saying anyone should be 'kicked', and if I'm to be kicked, so be it, but... I feel this site has a certain standard we all look up to. Not that all nails should look the same, but basic parameters like shape, form, proper lenght, natural nail condition on paying, living women, should be respected, and if we just 'let things go by', does that standard lowers?

*p.s.
this is not about 'kicking' what's wrong. It's about helping and directing.

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

Im not sure what your gripe is...the fact you dont feel you can offer critique or the fact others arent perfecting the necessary skills before moving onto the next thing??

Either way im surprised that you feel you can write this thread but cannot offer critique on the nails you question.

If someone has placed nails in the critique section then surely they must be expecting them to be commenting on good or bad so they can perfect the nails further....if you see something that you feel you should mention then that is what you should do x

 

[izzidoll]

cro-mari....I totally see where you are coming from, and think you are very brave posting this thread.
I hope no one misconstrues your meaning, as some of us old timers on here know we have been here before.

In fact threads like these were what inspired the critiques section.
We had all complained about the, fab, super, lovely, comments on any nail pics posted even when they were SO not fab super or anywhere near lovely, so the critique section was born, where we would give CONSTRUCTIVE critique and everyone would learn something.
I have thought of late that we have fallen back into the fab, super, smashing mindset on there, and I feel guilty that I have not had the time to properly critique or assist anyone on there.

That said, it is very difficult to go on and comment that, the nails are out of balance, too thick at the cuticle area, could be smoother, when 10 people have already said they are fab, super , smashing :irked:

That said I was always brought up to think....that if you can't say anything nice......don't say anything at all!!( I feel you think the same cro-mari)
But when people post nails for critique, then the whole point is to be honest with them in order to assist them in improving their work. IMHO

 

[cro-mari]

I see your point, Anna, and yes, some would say that's cowardly of me to be silent and then post a thread about it. I chose not to critique, not because I don't see what should be 'critiqued', but because too often I don't want to be part of saying 'cute' out of being polite.

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

In my opinion, if people don't want to receive an opinion on their work, then a) don't post it for critique and b) don't post it in any of the main forums, because critique will be given whether the poster likes it or not.

Salon Geek is a site for professionals to help, support, share and learn. I think honesty is an excellent policy and especially if given in a constructive manner. Very occasionaly, blunt honesty is needed ie. when people just don't get it, but hopefully this does not happen too often and the moderators are usually available to sort any problems.

I remember the nails and poster you are referring to, and if I recall, the replies on the whole were that most of the geeks did not like the overall appearance of the nails and reasons were given. Those were the opinions. Perhaps some of the opinions were harsh, but they were opinions non the less.

I personally don't offer critique to say 'yeah cool' or 'ooh that's nice. I will be honest. However, I also don't always view the critiques. More often than not, there are so many threads to read on Salon Geek that I pick and choose what I read and often miss loads.

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

I see your point, Anna, and yes, some would say that's cowardly of me to be silent and then post a thread about it. I chose not to critique, not because I don't see what should be 'critiqued', but because too often I don't want to be part of saying 'cute' out of being polite.

No I dont think your cowardly lol and I see what you mean but still dont understand...in a nutshell it appears to me that your brave enough to post this thread yet your not brave enough to offer critique when you feel you could....its kinda contradictive iyswim but I see your point...you dont want to say nice things for the sake of it x

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

I see your point, Anna, and yes, some would say that's cowardly of me to be silent and then post a thread about it. I chose not to critique, not because I don't see what should be 'critiqued', but because too often I don't want to be part of saying 'cute' out of being polite.

I don't think you are cowardly at all, in fact I admire yor post cro-mari. I think it is a good post.

By all means if you think a photo of some nail art is cute, colourful, intricate etc... then by all means say so. But there will also be posters who may not like it and they will comment as well. The point being, however, that we don't just post to give positive responses. Sometimes honesty will require pointing out errors and how they could be corrected.

Just because some geeks can't produce the quality of some of the work being critiqued, does not mean, they can't critique. One learns oneself through critiquing and even if I can't produce a set of competition nails, I know what a set should look like.

 

[geeg]

Well I think I understand what Mari means because I feel the same way she does about this subject.

I think she is saying that instead of not commenting on nail critiques because we have nothing good to say about the nails, maybe we should comment regardless in the spirit of helping people to improve. Because if all that person ever hears is .. "oh they look cute" or "love the colour" etc etc the standard just gets lower and lower.

I have noticed these days that before newbies can even do a decent nail they are plastering what they have made up with 'nail art' (and i use the term loosely believe me).

Nail art (even good nail art) does not disguise a badly done enhancement and I think students need to get their priorities right from the start and leave the nail art embellishments until they can make a good nail to put it on.

Nail art is not high on the list of what clients are willing to pay for and as I say, it wont coverup bad nail workmanship either. So my advice is to put your energies into learning how to do beautiful nails first and then tackle the arty side later.

Good thread, Mari ,and High time someone said it even if it is saying it again. I hope some of the new ones read it.

 

[cro-mari]

Thanks Geeg :hug: I guess you said it for me :green:

 

[gillian w]

Maybe in a similar way some threads are sent to blog some picture posts should be told to go to their galleries and closed, as they are just showing their designs and are not really after critique or help.
More work for the mods of course but it would keep that area a bit more for what it is really for.

 

[geeg]

Maybe in a similar way some threads are sent to blog some picture posts should be told to go to their galleries and closed, as they are just showing their designs and are not really after critique or help.
More work for the mods of course but it would keep that area a bit more for what it is really for.

I think some want their egos stroked and that is why they post there and not their galleries where no one would see the photos. Sorry it it offends, but that is what I think.

What worries me is that many of these new ones must think the work is great!!! and the ones saying, "they're lovely" and "well done" etc must think they look good too ... now THAT really causes me concern.

There has been some really shocking work posted in that critique section and to tell someone it is good or lovely or fab is just SO wrong and so unfair to the poster. The same ones who dare to speak out the truth always look like the bad guys.

I never comment unless the work is pretty excellent or I think I can really help but some .... there is just nothing I can say that is positive at all.

 

[min11]

Fabulous topic! :hug:

I haven't replied to many critiques as I often have felt that as I am way way off perfect then I shouldn't but that said it doesn't mean I cant see what looks wrong. I have seen some nails where every post said they are great and I've not liked to jump in and say otherwise but it does sometimes leave me wondering if I am seeing something thats not there and maybe they are good and its me thats wrong. Then I wonder if I need to change something myself. Personally, as someone with little experience, I wish there was more honesty as it helps to feel that when I post something, every comment is genuine. I dont want sunshine and roses to make me feel great, I need the nuts and bolts to help me tweak it. When I see things getting the same comments I did but I can see things that dont look right, it can kind of knock your confidence. I can always pick faults with what I do so honest opinions are always appreciated.

Hope that made sense :hug:

 

[geeg]

Fabulous topic! :hug:

I haven't replied to many critiques as I often have felt that as I am way way off perfect then I shouldn't but that said it doesn't mean I cant see what looks wrong. I have seen some nails where every post said they are great and I've not liked to jump in and say otherwise but it does sometimes leave me wondering if I am seeing something thats not there and maybe they are good and its me thats wrong. Then I wonder if I need to change something myself. Personally, as someone with little experience, I wish there was more honesty as it helps to feel that when I post something, every comment is genuine. I dont want sunshine and roses to make me feel great, I need the nuts and bolts to help me tweak it. When I see things getting the same comments I did but I can see things that dont look right, it can kind of knock your confidence. I can always pick faults with what I do so honest opinions are always appreciated.

Hope that made sense :hug:

If you can pick faults in your own work then you can do it for other's work. One doesn't have to be perfect oneself to be able to offer a perfectly good critique to another. You are entitled to an opinion and as long as you state that it is your opinion then that should be good enough for anyone. Amen

 

[A Perfect 10?]

Great thread. Must say that I (still as a "newbie") only post pictures in the critique for exactly that reason - to be "critiqued".....

Quite often I will look at a set of completed nails and be happy with them but then looking through the pictures later will notice inconsistencies, etc. I haven't posted much - think all 2 pictures were P&Ws but to me the honest opinions from you experienced Geeks are EXACTLY what I am looking for..... The best way for me to improve!!

 

[fifitrix]

Great thread. Must say that I (still as a "newbie") only post pictures in the critique for exactly that reason - to be "critiqued".....

Quite often I will look at a set of completed nails and be happy with them but then looking through the pictures later will notice inconsistencies, etc. I haven't posted much - think all 2 pictures were P&Ws but to me the honest opinions from you experienced Geeks are EXACTLY what I am looking for..... The best way for me to improve!!

Totally agree and this is what, imo the critique section is there for. People who want to know how to improve their work, without taking comments the wrong way. I think also, when fresh eyes look at your work it can only be beneficial.

I don't critique that often either, sometimes I look at a picture and think, they could do such and such and it would look far better, but stick that in with the list of "Oh they look lovely", then I sound mean. iykwim.

Brave thread :hug:

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

I think some want their egos stroked and that is why they post there and not their galleries where no one would see the photos. Sorry it it offends, but that is what I think.

What worries me is that many of these new ones must think the work is great!!! and the ones saying, "they're lovely" and "well done" etc must think they look good too ... now THAT really causes me concern.

There has been some really shocking work posted in that critique section and to tell someone it is good or lovely or fab is just SO wrong and so unfair to the poster. The same ones who dare to speak out the truth always look like the bad guys.

I never comment unless the work is pretty excellent or I think I can really help but some .... there is just nothing I can say that is positive at all.

Thing is Gigi, do you think we are really helping someone by not saying anything at all if the work is dire?

If we really can't find anything nice or positive to say about the work presented, is this not when we should actually be saying something instead of keeping silent about it just because it is too dire? Otherwise how are these peeps going to learn.

 

[geeg]

Thing is Gigi, do you think we are really helping someone by not saying anything at all if the work is dire?

If we really can't find anything nice or positive to say about the work presented, is this not when we should actually be saying something instead of keeping silent about it just because it is too dire? Otherwise how are these peeps going to learn.

Of course I think we should ... emphasis on the WE not always me or the other handful of geeks that will say what they think.

Got to a point a few weeks ago where I just couldn't write anything positive and it gets disheartening both for me and the state of the industry if folks think that what they are seeing is good work doesn't it?

Not sure where peoples sense of pride has gone in a job well done! Many of us still have it of course but just recently for whatever reason, I don't know, a LOAD of new ones are coming into the nail industry and are very easily pleased with the work they are turning out. And it's not good.

 

[min11]

I think it might be also that some people just don't like to say something that may upset the poster. Or they do and the problem they spotted was shrugged of by the poster and then not picked up on again which also sometimes leaves me wondering if something was rightly commented on or not.

 

[chantell simone]

I think we need to remember that the nail critique is there for others to offer their opinion on someones work

If your not able to take the comments given in a critique then that section is clearly not for you!

I have never put my work up to be critiqued but if I did, I would like to think that everyone would give their true and honest opinion

My Grandma always says "talk the truth and shame the devil"

 

[cro-mari]

Thank you all for your answers.

Gave me (us) something to think about, and as for me, it certanly changed the way I feel about that critique section, which should really be a helping hand.

I always thought, looking at others beautifull work, I'll post only when I have something great to show, and it's not that great yet. Once, I got courrage and posted my work, others did not say much, but I think it was Nailzoo who stood up and said, hm, interesting, but cuticles look sore... and I died of shame, but HE WAS RIGHT! And as a result I never did cut anyone's skin again... and that was good! So I thought, If I posted more often, or talked about it, who knows what could have been prevented or improved!

:hug: to all