NVQ or VRQ

[classixuk]

I agree!! I am also a salon owner and assessor with years of industry experience. If you can't get an apprenticeship then is there enough jobs for all these college trained hairdressers? How many thousand are being churned out annually? It doesn't add u! :-/

It's unbelievable isn't it? The only winners are the colleges once they've had the government funding.

As an assessor and salon owner yourself you will almost die when I tell you what I found out about during my last round of interviews...of the group 2 people (college qualified) that I thought might make good apprentices I found out that when they were doing their end of unit exams for theory on both their level 2 and level 3 courses that one of 2 things used to happen ... the tutor either sat with them and got them to change their answers (for the online exams) or they were allowed to sit with the textbook on the paper exams! How shocking is that? It is one particular college that this kept cropping up about, and it showed in the quality of the work their students were churning out!

:Scared:

The students of that college are now royally screwed unless they find more employers like myself who will retrain them.

 

[lauren89]

It's unbelievable isn't it? The only winners are the colleges once they've had the government funding.

As an assessor and salon owner yourself you will almost die when I tell you what I found out about during my last round of interviews...of the group 2 people (college qualified) that I thought might make good apprentices I found out that when they were doing their end of unit exams for theory on both their level 2 and level 3 courses that one of 2 things used to happen ... the tutor either sat with them and got them to change their answers (for the online exams) or they were allowed to sit with the textbook on the paper exams! How shocking is that? It is one particular college that this kept cropping up about, and it showed in the quality of the work their students were churning out!

:Scared:

The students of that college are now royally screwed unless they find more employers like myself who will retrain them.

Our tutor sat and read out the answers just before we started, then gave out answers during!

 

[chazz!!]

This isn't correct. I say this as an employer, teacher, assessor and with lots of industry experience under my belt.

I've recently just been hiring (looking for a new stylist) and I ended up with 3 piles of applications for the same job - 1. Rejects 2. People who qualified to either NVQ or VRQ Level 3 at a college and 3. People who qualified to either NVQ Level 2 or NVQ Level 3 in a real working salon.

I hired my stylist from group 3. I interviewed a few from group 2 but told them all before the interview that their lack of any industry experience meant they'd be getting interviewed as a 1st year junior and would have to retrain from scratch. I hired one girl from this group as our new first year junior - despite the fact she is qualified to VRQ Level 3 - and she's happy to do so as no other salons would even touch her with a bargepole (her words, not mine) as they all demanded salon experience.

The VRQ screams "Hey, I have a piece of paper but likely no skills that you could use properly in your salon when you compare me to your existing 1st year junior staff".

I know it's disappointing to hear, but think about it this way ... whoever heard of someone qualifying as a nurse without ever once having worked in a hospital during her course? See what I mean? Our clients are like our patients and we need to know they're in good hands with experienced people looking after them.

To get a job as a stylist you need to qualify as a stylist, and that means training somewhere stylists actually work so you can learn the job properly.

College prepares you to get a piece of paper but not necessarily a job. I think all salon owners on here will agree with me by saying we have never ever employed someone fresh out of college with a level 2 (or 3) piece of paper as a stylist on a full stylists pay. Even the best college leavers usually need a minimum of 6 months training before they're even able to colour or cut to salon standards.

I'll leave you with the words of our new junior's mum, who said to her lat week, "I wish you'd just gone there in the first place instead of wasting 3 years at that college!"

what if like me they have a vrq but have been working in a salon for 3 years not doing hair but watching everything i have washed hair and watched alot. It might be different in your salon but in mine the aprentaships dont do anything but clean anyway. Now and again they will do a blowbry or a family member will come in for a colour. Iv prob seen mabe 5 training sessions in the three years iv been their. Would you not do a trade test first or would you make them start from scratch if they was just as compatent as somone with a nvq.

I am 100% sure i can cut and colour better than the girl at my salon whos just finnished her nvq 2 and i havent evan finished yet. I can only do the basics but so can she while shes been cleaning iv been watching. I can understand somone with no salon experience but you cant dismiss somone just because of a vrq if they have got salon experence. Just beacause you have an vrq dosent mean you dont have salon experience it just means you wernt on an aprentaship. Iv actully been working in the salon longer that her just doing beauty not hair.

But i help in the hair salon when im not busy. One of the girls finishes in december and so far has only lernt a one length cut so far. She started in september. I started the same time and i lernt all my cuts and colours i just need to practise them now but iv done 4 colour assesments and 3 cuts all on real people. I also got some of them checked in the salon i work in and they said they were fine. Just to be sure the teacher wasnt just letting me pass. X
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[chazz!!]

I agree!! I am also a salon owner and assessor with years of industry experience. If you can't get an apprenticeship then is there enough jobs for all these college trained hairdressers? How many thousand are being churned out annually? It doesn't add u! :-/

we cant get jobs because alot of salon owners wont hire us beacause of our age and they will have to pay us more. Also older people cant afored to work for the aprentaship wadge. I have a house and a car to pay for i think the young girls in my salon only get £400 a month my rent alone is £600. We have no choice but to do an vrq.
I undertand that the salon owner also cannot aford to pay a good wadge when their not bringing money in. Its a no win situation. X

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[LAPirate]

we cant get jobs because alot of salon owners wont hire us beacause of our age and they will have to pay us more. Also older people cant afored to work for the aprentaship wadge. I have a house and a car to pay for i think the young girls in my salon only get £400 a month my rent alone is £600. We have no choice but to do an vrq.
I undertand that the salon owner also cannot aford to pay a good wadge when their not bringing money in. Its a no win situation. X

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I agree with you! There should be more funding more older apprentices. I have two older apprentices at present who are both going to qualify soon, they are pain NMW (they have to earn it though!) I demand high standards and hard work! In general I find older apprentices more determined and focused. Unfortunately the sad fact is
You can't afford to take the best route! If the government would
Fund the difference between minimum wage and your apprentice wage for the first year this would encourage more salon owners to take older apprentices.

As to the varying standard in colleges it's hardly surprising as a lot of them take staff who couldn't cut it on the commercial environment! ( certainly true local to me)

 

[chazz!!]

Im very lucky my teacher works as the manager and trainer of a local small chain of salons in the day time. And teaches only my class two evenings a week. My teacher is my mums hairdresser. She has now lost a client tho lol. X

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[LAPirate]

Im very lucky my teacher works as the manager and trainer of a local small chain of salons in the day time. And teaches only my class two evenings a week. My teacher is my mums hairdresser. She has now lost a client tho lol. X

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As I said earlier some students are lucky, with great teachers who still work to "best practice"!

 

[LAPirate]

Good luck and appreciate ur great teachers!

 

[chazz!!]

I think im going to email this thread and the other one their is to my teacher see what she says im also going to ring an insurence company to see if they will insure me to do hair both mobile and on a salon. X

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[lea2721]

It's unbelievable isn't it? The only winners are the colleges once they've had the government funding.

As an assessor and salon owner yourself you will almost die when I tell you what I found out about during my last round of interviews...of the group 2 people (college qualified) that I thought might make good apprentices I found out that when they were doing their end of unit exams for theory on both their level 2 and level 3 courses that one of 2 things used to happen ... the tutor either sat with them and got them to change their answers (for the online exams) or they were allowed to sit with the textbook on the paper exams! How shocking is that? It is one particular college that this kept cropping up about, and it showed in the quality of the work their students were churning out!

:Scared:

The students of that college are now royally screwed unless they find more employers like myself who will retrain them.

exactly this is how i feel about the college i am at .. its last ofsted report was rubbish so im guessing thats partly to do with it they want to up there pass rate but its so frustrating for some one like me who wants to learn in depth its so disheartning .. they show you one cut ONCE and then you are expected to take the test and ive seen a few who havent gave correct advice and then tutor tells them i think you need to add a bit more on so they do so they get a higer grade.. and because i didnt want to rush my practical test there now moaning at me sayinh your behind and trying to get me to do any test and rush it all because of the rules they have as a college and if certain things are not done in a set time they get in trouble!! there teaching 15pupils and only one tutor so when doing practical test's some get better grades even though some times they do worse or equal to others simply because the tutors cant observe all at once.. and thats the reason why i am moving because i want to be the best hairdresser i can and this college is not going to help me.. they tried tellinh me i was more or less passed my sell by date nobody will take you as apprentice because if your age etc and theres no way you can do nvq.. well the college in london has stated adult learners do a nvq3 as apprentice or if you have a full time salon placement and they have been more supportive than my college has ever been.. sorry for the essay but really this is so unfair this should be stopped and shouldnt be allowed and if some colleges are just about the money the targets etc znd not about the education what a waste of money luckily for me i have the option to move to london where my dad is but some people dont have that option so are stuck with a second rate education and not much chance if a job at the end of it x

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[lea2721]

what if like me they have a vrq but have been working in a salon for 3 years not doing hair but watching everything i have washed hair and watched alot. It might be different in your salon but in mine the aprentaships dont do anything but clean anyway. Now and again they will do a blowbry or a family member will come in for a colour. Iv prob seen mabe 5 training sessions in the three years iv been their. Would you not do a trade test first or would you make them start from scratch if they was just as compatent as somone with a nvq.

I am 100% sure i can cut and colour better than the girl at my salon whos just finnished her nvq 2 and i havent evan finished yet. I can only do the basics but so can she while shes been cleaning iv been watching. I can understand somone with no salon experience but you cant dismiss somone just because of a vrq if they have got salon experence. Just beacause you have an vrq dosent mean you dont have salon experience it just means you wernt on an aprentaship. Iv actully been working in the salon longer that her just doing beauty not hair.

But i help in the hair salon when im not busy. One of the girls finishes in december and so far has only lernt a one length cut so far. She started in september. I started the same time and i lernt all my cuts and colours i just need to practise them now but iv done 4 colour assesments and 3 cuts all on real people. I also got some of them checked in the salon i work in and they said they were fine. Just to be sure the teacher wasnt just letting me pass. X
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the point being is even just stood watching observing in a salon you will learn so much .. this is what i want you learn from the best of course it depends on the salon you get but youve got far more advantage of learning more in a salon as theyve got a incentive you could or most likely will be a future employer its an investment on there part hopefullu paving the way for a top class stylist unlike at college all there morals are are deadlines and money x

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[lea2721]

I agree with you! There should be more funding more older apprentices. I have two older apprentices at present who are both going to qualify soon, they are pain NMW (they have to earn it though!) I demand high standards and hard work! In general I find older apprentices more determined and focused. Unfortunately the sad fact is
You can't afford to take the best route! If the government would
Fund the difference between minimum wage and your apprentice wage for the first year this would encourage more salon owners to take older apprentices.

As to the varying standard in colleges it's hardly surprising as a lot of them take staff who couldn't cut it on the commercial environment! ( certainly true local to me)

i agree!! but maybe if the goverment didnt fund stupid courses at college that are a waste of timr more could go in to apprenticeships to support adult learners!! i think the reason ive had a few interviews down in london is because the fact i am mature i know what im letting my self in for and i am 100% commited .. i think sometimes age can be advantage as 23 year old i know im more experianced to learn than i was at 16 because im more wiser i know hard work will pay off .. i just wish i had knowen this before starting my level 2 at college because i feel i have wasted a full year in a way as now i know i would learn whole lot more as a apprentice i could of done this from the stary x

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[lea2721]

I agree with you! There should be more funding more older apprentices. I have two older apprentices at present who are both going to qualify soon, they are pain NMW (they have to earn it though!) I demand high standards and hard work! In general I find older apprentices more determined and focused. Unfortunately the sad fact is
You can't afford to take the best route! If the government would
Fund the difference between minimum wage and your apprentice wage for the first year this would encourage more salon owners to take older apprentices.

As to the varying standard in colleges it's hardly surprising as a lot of them take staff who couldn't cut it on the commercial environment! ( certainly true local to me)

and i love what you are doing i wish more salons could follow your example xx
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[lea2721]

Best of luck! You won't regret it!

thankyou i know money will be tight etc but it will pay off in the long run x

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[Rubytues]

This isn't correct. I say this as an employer, teacher, assessor and with lots of industry experience under my belt.

I've recently just been hiring (looking for a new stylist) and I ended up with 3 piles of applications for the same job - 1. Rejects 2. People who qualified to either NVQ or VRQ Level 3 at a college and 3. People who qualified to either NVQ Level 2 or NVQ Level 3 in a real working salon.

I hired my stylist from group 3. I interviewed a few from group 2 but told them all before the interview that their lack of any industry experience meant they'd be getting interviewed as a 1st year junior and would have to retrain from scratch. I hired one girl from this group as our new first year junior - despite the fact she is qualified to VRQ Level 3 - and she's happy to do so as no other salons would even touch her with a bargepole (her words, not mine) as they all demanded salon experience.

The VRQ screams "Hey, I have a piece of paper but likely no skills that you could use properly in your salon when you compare me to your existing 1st year junior staff".

I know it's disappointing to hear, but think about it this way ... whoever heard of someone qualifying as a nurse without ever once having worked in a hospital during her course? See what I mean? Our clients are like our patients and we need to know they're in good hands with experienced people looking after them.

To get a job as a stylist you need to qualify as a stylist, and that means training somewhere stylists actually work so you can learn the job properly.

College prepares you to get a piece of paper but not necessarily a job. I think all salon owners on here will agree with me by saying we have never ever employed someone fresh out of college with a level 2 (or 3) piece of paper as a stylist on a full stylists pay. Even the best college leavers usually need a minimum of 6 months training before they're even able to colour or cut to salon standards.

I'll leave you with the words of our new junior's mum, who said to her lat week, "I wish you'd just gone there in the first place instead of wasting 3 years at that college!"

Doesn't it all depend on the individual?
I think your opinion is quite a harsh one to say the VRQ isn't basically worth the paper its written on!

 

[LAPirate]

This isn't correct. I say this as an employer, teacher, assessor and with lots of industry experience under my belt.

I've recently just been hiring (looking for a new stylist) and I ended up with 3 piles of applications for the same job - 1. Rejects 2. People who qualified to either NVQ or VRQ Level 3 at a college and 3. People who qualified to either NVQ Level 2 or NVQ Level 3 in a real working salon.

I hired my stylist from group 3. I interviewed a few from group 2 but told them all before the interview that their lack of any industry experience meant they'd be getting interviewed as a 1st year junior and would have to retrain from scratch. I hired one girl from this group as our new first year junior - despite the fact she is qualified to VRQ Level 3 - and she's happy to do so as no other salons would even touch her with a bargepole (her words, not mine) as they all demanded salon experience.

The VRQ screams "Hey, I have a piece of paper but likely no skills that you could use properly in your salon when you compare me to your existing 1st year junior staff".

I know it's disappointing to hear, but think about it this way ... whoever heard of someone qualifying as a nurse without ever once having worked in a hospital during her course? See what I mean? Our clients are like our patients and we need to know they're in good hands with experienced people looking after them.

To get a job as a stylist you need to qualify as a stylist, and that means training somewhere stylists actually work so you can learn the job properly.

College prepares you to get a piece of paper but not necessarily a job. I think all salon owners on here will agree with me by saying we have never ever employed someone fresh out of college with a level 2 (or 3) piece of paper as a stylist on a full stylists pay. Even the best college leavers usually need a minimum of 6 months training before they're even able to colour or cut to salon standards.

I'll leave you with the words of our new junior's mum, who said to her lat week, "I wish you'd just gone there in the first place instead of wasting 3 years at that college!"

Doesn't it all depend on the individual?
I think your opinion is quite a harsh one to say the VRQ isn't basically worth the paper its written on!

Harsh but true! Don't blame the Pros blame the money hungry colleges!!

 

[persianista]

It does seem that the colleges are conning people by telling them they will be hairdressers after a full time college course.
Blame the schools too, as they steer pupils into full time college rather than apprentiships. Teachers only know about school, they dont seem to have a clue about how the world of work functions.

 

[persianista]

An "academy" which I used to use has recently changed their structure to 2 days at college a week, qualified in 6 months.
I pointed out that I didnt want to lose my junior 2 days a week (and pay her), and I didnt want a 16 year old "qualified" hairdresser who has had naff all time to practice.

They just want to get paid faster. Does nothing for the trainee. 6 months training is shortchanging the trainee, the salon owner and the industry.

 

[LAPirate]

It does seem that the colleges are conning people by telling them they will be hairdressers after a full time college course.
Blame the schools too, as they steer pupils into full time college rather than apprentiships. Teachers only know about school, they dont seem to have a clue about how the world of work functions.

Colleges will say anything to get bums on seats! The vocational arms of colleges are run as businesses only out to make profit! Passes equal pounds! You've gotta ask yourself how many new hairdressers do we really need every year??

 

[LAPirate]

In general these courses lack a lot of needed skill areas. Things like customer service, consultations are dealt with in a week at college!! How?? These are some of the most important skills! Also 8 haircuts? Really???? Some of the people I know that trained at college were assessed and passed the first time they did a haircut! Tutors pass colour assessments even though they have to choose colours for the student!! Dumbing down or what?! ;-(