Online payments-a little warning

[Verve Designs]

I'm not sure how many of you use P*ypal for charging clients if they're booking things via your website but I thought I'd give you a little warning tale that is food for thought.

I recently did some design work for someone and sent a P*ypal invoice (As I do dozens of times a month)- but, for some reason, the payment bounced back.

I know the client fairly well and accepted her reasoning that there had been some fraud on her card and the bank must have claimed all of her recent transactions back- I don't doubt her one bit and I've sent another invoice.

However- this morning I get an email from P*ypal which not only confirms that the design fee was clawed back (as I expected) but I've ALSO been charged £14 on top of it!! - which is more than I was charging in the first place!

I literally spend thousands of pounds a year to process transactions and the one time I need a little bit of protection- they suggest I'm committing fraud, taking my time, work and money off me AND charging me for it too!........I'm utterly gobsmacked. Apparently unless you can prove you literally posted something to someone you're never covered if you're offering a non-tangible service.

So- here's my question after my rant...should I just start charging people via bank transfer?...if you were a client, either of a service like mine or if you were booking a pamper evening etc, would you be comfortable with that?

Or can anyone else suggest any other alternatives?

 

[JenBella]

I think I'd be happy enough paying by bank transfer but for companies that I wasn't sure about or when I order off eBay/amazon (i dont order profesional products off the internet, just things like books etc) I prefer the protection of PayPal.
Have you contacted the person? I'd hate to think that they deliberately maðe he chargeback whilst still taking your work. There must be a way of proving you completed the service, maybe you need to get some sort of form which the client completes before you send them the files, whereby they acknowledge acceptance of the work and costs etc. once that's signed and returned then they get the files, maybe that might be some sort of back up.

 

[Geminikelli]

Hi Carl

Personally I'd rather pay via bank transfer over phone with card as that way it's my business account I only have a personal PayPal so when I have paid you before I then have to cross match with business bank accounts very messy and my accountant goes mad that I use personal accounts to pay for business transactions. I have no need to set up PayPal for business.

Also and I hope I don't offend you in anyway but to me PayPal comes across as quite amateur, the hobbyist, the seller on eBay not a professional company. Just my opinion though.

Plus I'd rather just pay u into ur bank and at way neither of us get charged for doing so! X

 

[Verve Designs]

Hiya- thanks for that!

Yes, I'm certain the person didn't do it on purpose- and that's the frustrating thing really. It's basically a card mix-up (well, I'd like to think so) and then these massive billion pound corporations get involved and little businesses have to cough up!

The problem is that the buyer can (within 28 days) claim they never authorised the transaction and even if I get people to sign special forms, or pay entirely in advance etc etc...I can NEVER prove that I've actually done the work.

So frustrating, and a little worrying actually.

 

[jacquelineanna]

Carl

I think you have the absolute right to use whichever method of payment suits your business!

I would be rather suspicious of anyone who had a problem with payment via any source which is safe.

You should change your payment system as soon as you can.

Isn't it sad that as usual it is the minority who make life more difficult for everyone else.

Shame on the person who used your very excellent services and then stiffed you for the payment!!

Hopefully the majority of your clients are good and decent people ... like me :wink2:

 

[Verve Designs]

I think I'd be happy enough paying by bank transfer but for companies that I wasn't sure about or when I order off eBay/amazon (i dont order profesional products off the internet, just things like books etc) I prefer the protection of PayPal.
Have you contacted the person? I'd hate to think that they deliberately maðe he chargeback whilst still taking your work. There must be a way of proving you completed the service, maybe you need to get some sort of form which the client completes before you send them the files, whereby they acknowledge acceptance of the work and costs etc. once that's signed and returned then they get the files, maybe that might be some sort of back up.

I said I can show them emails etc. to prove the work was done and sent. But the ONLY thing that can ever prove anything to them and get protection is by sending something through the post and keeping the proof of postage....so, I (and people like me) can never be "protected".

 

[Verve Designs]

Hi Carl

Personally I'd rather pay via bank transfer over phone with card as that way it's my business account I only have a personal PayPal so when I have paid you before I then have to cross match with business bank accounts very messy and my accountant goes mad that I use personal accounts to pay for business transactions. I have no need to set up PayPal for business.

Also and I hope I don't offend you in anyway but to me PayPal comes across as quite amateur, the hobbyist, the seller on eBay not a professional company. Just my opinion though.

Plus I'd rather just pay u into ur bank and at way neither of us get charged for doing so! X

I use (or maybe used now) - Paypal as I, wrongly, assumed it was protecting both myself and the seller, there are a number of back-end reports and tax-calcs on there which are quite handy too.

I'd used it for years as most people wanted to pay via Paypal (I've found that people, in the main, were wary of bank transfers)- and it was a case of if it aint broke....

 

[nicolaluise]

Hi Carl I allow several of my clients to pay me via bank transfer as its just more convenient at times. Most have me set up as a payee now.

 

[umvemve]

Oh shame Carl poor you! I wonder whether for us lot the signed consultation form would prove this - if we added that payment had been made by PayPal?

 

[JenBella]

Hi Carl

Personally I'd rather pay via bank transfer over phone with card as that way it's my business account I only have a personal PayPal so when I have paid you before I then have to cross match with business bank accounts very messy and my accountant goes mad that I use personal accounts to pay for business transactions. I have no need to set up PayPal for business.

Also and I hope I don't offend you in anyway but to me PayPal comes across as quite amateur, the hobbyist, the seller on eBay not a professional company. Just my opinion though.

Plus I'd rather just pay u into ur bank and at way neither of us get charged for doing so! X

Good point actually re record keeping, my paypal is personal account. Verve was the first service I paid for business use via PayPal, the rest are all on my business account.
I think people like PayPal because you aren't giving someone your card details, professional company or not, we are all warned to never give out details and its happened twice to me where fraudulent activity was carried out on my card and I knew on both occasions how it happened. First time was on hols, card was skimmed and second time I gave my card details over phone to pay for my bins. Shortly after that, transactions that weren't mine started appearing.
It would be a bit of a pain having to phone my bank to lodge money into your bank because they do all manner of call backs and security checks.
Perhaps getting an online credit card facility is the best bet. That way people are still protected and its simple and straightforward.

 

[Nails<3]

PayPal doesn't protect the seller when it comes to proof of postage, you have to literally send something recorded delivery and post the tracking number up on PayPal so they can check it.

I have been conned a few times when it has come to ebay/PayPal and people haven't supposedly recieved the item but I was too stupid to send the item recorded so I lost items and money.

On the other hand, I brought a game for Xmas for my son cost £40 and the seller didn't send it. She emailed me to tell me that she had, I asked for tracking info to be put on PayPal and she put up a fake tracking number containing only 0s. For her to then message me and say well paypal won't give you your money back as I have put numbers in the tracking space. I was raging and rang paypal and I got my money back.

PayPal doesn't really protect anymore, far too much fraud using the service and people can chargeback their credit cards and open a case against you and you haven't got a leg to stand on!
I would charge using bank transfer to protect yourself as you can't psychically send items out either! X

 

[MisstyB]

Carl couldnt you post them an invoice by registered post, I would think that just a letter wouldnt cost much, then if you have any problems you could use that tracking number as proof of postage for paypal??
xxx

 

[Verve Designs]

Carl couldnt you post them an invoice by registered post, I would think that just a letter wouldnt cost much, then if you have any problems you could use that tracking number as proof of postage for paypal??
xxx

No, afraid not. The files I send are all digital so I wouldn't want the client waiting for days on end for a CD through the post. They can get an email with the files instantly.

Besides, I'd have to charge the client for the CD AND postage too....

The invoice itself isn't proof that they've had when they "bought" from me. So if I did have a situation where the client is claiming I've ripped them off or just plain didn't want to pay (though, again, I'm sure that's not the case in this situation) - the invoice wouldn't really prove much.

Annoying eh?

Thanks for the feebback anyway guys. I might just give people the option themselves- and I'd prefer to continue just to trust people really!

 

[natalie3344]

Hate PayPal! Would never ever use them again! Did the same to me a while back when I was selling bits and bobs on eBay. Lost a fair bit of money.

I pay for things by bank transfer and have no problem with it. If I paid someone who didn't send the goods I'm more confident in my bank recouping the money than PayPal!

 

[natalie3344]

There's another payment method called money bookers. Electronic and the fees are much lower than pp x

 

[vgml]

What about payment via your website like many other online shops have? Would that make a difference?

 

[Ruth Mills]

What about payment via your website like many other online shops have? Would that make a difference?

That would need to be using something like SagePay or WorldPay or whatever... which would be more expensive to set up in the first place, and requires a lot more work technically than integrating something like PayPal (which is usually a lot more straightforward).

In response to Carl's original question though - I do prefer bank transfer for payment (in preference to PayPal) for my line of work - primarily because I don't get stung 3.4% + 20p in PayPal fees on every transaction - and it's usually free for people to make bank transfers, as well as to receive them - so it means I get my money, without banks and financial institutions (e.g. PayPal) taking a cheeky cut themselves. As we all know, banks are rich enough already, so why give them any more than they deserve???

 

[lisa.sharrock]

My pamper party clients always pay their deposits through bank transfer and that's the method of payment I prefer. The reason being is that I was under the impression that with a Paypal payment the user is given the opportunity to reverse the payment, which isn't a feature I'd like them to have, in instances that I've completed the service and they then reverse. Or have I got that wrong??

 

[TIPTOP]

I don't mind how I pay for goods or services, it's sad that one persons actions can cause you so much hassle, I'd personally demand that she pays your £14 fee, I had a similar ordeal with a cheque payment which had put me off accepting them for life!!

 

[sukic]

I ask for a deposit for pamper parties and usually ask for a bank transfer first and if that's no go, I'll accept a cheque. I think so many people do online banking it's an easy transaction to do. There's no fees either, win win! I'll happily pay you via bank transfer Carl.