Onycholysis? Why?

[mum]

I can see the picture Geeg has drawn entirely! I've done it too and so has every technician at some point.

I can also understand that you know you don't do this.

I didn't think the enhanced nails was flared. I was commenting that this type of nail (that I think it is) needs to have a tapered/oval free edge rather that a square/squoval as it will 'cope' with it better.

How shocking that I didn't suggest Shellac! I am so used to thinking of resin as a 'cure all'! Of course, Shellac will be a very gentle protection. Personally, I would not 'enhance' and would also take off those corners regardless of the clients preference. I believe her nails should be oval to sit comfortably on the beds.

 

[geeg]

I understand what you're saying... but... the truth is.. I find that most of my work, on 'my' left of their nails, it's always nicer and flusher than on 'my' right of their nails. I think I actually do reverse of what you suggest.

We did put enhancements back on because I was concerned at leaving them in fear of them not having enough 'support' and getting torn.
So I should remove and apply resin instead, and perhaps Shellac instead?

I'm talking about 'your' right of their nails. I'M GETTING CONFUSED NOW

 

[maguire]

Hmmm now I can see what I am doing, I do seem to over file sometimes just to get that sleeker look that geeg mentioned, (slap wrist):smack: I shall have to be more mindfull of this when doing my own nails, funny I have not had this on clients just mine, but then I suppose you could be a bit rougher on your own nails than with clients, thanks for this post Victoria and thanks Mum and Geeg for enlighting this fact.

 

[VHunter]

I can see the picture Geeg has drawn entirely! I've done it too and so has every technician at some point.

I can also understand that you know you don't do this.

I didn't think the enhanced nails was flared. I was commenting that this type of nail (that I think it is) needs to have a tapered/oval free edge rather that a square/squoval as it will 'cope' with it better.

How shocking that I didn't suggest Shellac! I am so used to thinking of resin as a 'cure all'! Of course, Shellac will be a very gentle protection. Personally, I would not 'enhance' and would also take off those corners regardless of the clients preference. I believe her nails should be oval to sit comfortably on the beds.

Well I'm not "sure" that I don't do it? I just think that I don't? If I did, I would think you would see it to the left of their nails (my left, their right) instead of to the right as it is now. I have a tendency to 'miss' spots on my right (their left) of the nails because I don't see it as well because of where my lamp is placed (that side is in shadow) and because I don't reach that angle as well. BUT it's VERY possible... I don't deny it isn't and definately is something I should watch.
And my apologies for having misunderstood, I thought you suggested that they were flared. My bad. I understand now

I will suggest the oval to her.... but she's likely to not want that. Square is where it's at in this neck of the woods, or squoval... Not many fans of the other shapes (except for Grandmas... NO OFFENSE meant:green

I'm talking about 'your' right of their nails. I'M GETTING CONFUSED NOW

Yes lol "MY" right, their left hehehehehe :hug:

 

[totalbeauty]

I had this on a client once, and her doctor told her it was psoriasis of the nails. It did seem strange, but that was why her nails were becoming detached from the nail plate.

 

[katiebbaby]

OK here is my two cents worth although I completely agree with envy and Marian that the reasons they give could be a cause .... here's another take on it. You may not like this one.

In my experience I have seen, gazillions of times, that right handed technicians tend to 'over work' or over file on the right hand side of the nail. I don't mean filing ON the natural nail but when straightening up the sidewalls when finishing they can over file along the right hand side (continually going back to it again and again like some bad habit because it is comfortable). Remember there is a small free margin of natural nail here and it is even bigger when prepping for rebalances ... this is a very vulnerable area when filing. If this is a possiblilty with you then try to correct a bad habit. Once your filing is done there then LEAVE it and be conscious of that natural nail along the free margin.

What happens is the file breaks the seal of the perionychium (lateral fold) and the nail tends to de-rail on the favoured side where you may be over working/filing/shaping it.

I've done it on myself so I know!! I used to make my own nails as narrow and sleek as I possibly could and in so doing broke the 'seal' along several side walls of my widest nails Since not wearing enhancements and only wearing Shellac all the 3 nails have grown back perfectly and no more onycholysis on the sides. So take a look also at what you may inadvertently be doing which could cause this to happen. :hug:

geeg I do this all the time, I find lately if I turn clients hands over so palms up and look at nails this way is gives me a better perspective, sometimes I can think nail shape is great and look at it this way and think :!::!: whooo,,, looks awfull. I also think its all about how we position our file??

 

[katiebbaby]

Well I'm not "sure" that I don't do it? I just think that I don't? If I did, I would think you would see it to the left of their nails (my left, their right) instead of to the right as it is now. I have a tendency to 'miss' spots on my right (their left) of the nails because I don't see it as well because of where my lamp is placed (that side is in shadow) and because I don't reach that angle as well. BUT it's VERY possible... I don't deny it isn't and definately is something I should watch.
And my apologies for having misunderstood, I thought you suggested that they were flared. My bad. I understand now

I will suggest the oval to her.... but she's likely to not want that. Square is where it's at in this neck of the woods, or squoval... Not many fans of the other shapes (except for Grandmas... NO OFFENSE meant:green



Yes lol "MY" right, their left hehehehehe :hug:

I know what you mean, Most of my L&P clients want square, whereas 90% off my shellac and now NNO clients want as natural as possible, and if that means almond, etc then so be it. I show them and thay then seem to go,,OHH yeahh looks better, lol.

I say to some clients look at the magazines and TV, do you see any stars with french?? NO,, more colour, and short and natural looking, they then are converted. xx

 

[Manda Panda]

I too have a mature client who's nails are the same. This first happened whilst she was wearing a Gel NNO so I advised her to have a break and apply Solar Oil daily, and they improved almost completly. She has since started to wear Shellac and is sooo pleased with them but it has re-occured :cry:
My question is, my client it taking Warfarin medication, could this have cause it to happen??

 

[kasik]

What you and Victoria are both describing could very likely be inverse Pterygium - (a wing like growth of skin) this is where (in the case of inverse) where hyponychium has 'fused' to the nail plate.

The most common cause of this I have seen is mechanical force (over filing being the usual suspect) Drilling out the under side is a very common cause as it heats up the hyponychium and causes it to fuse...

I had lots of natural clients with long nailbed, most of them had also hyponychium growing out of the nail bed and natural c-curve really high -almost like it comes in pack . So it could not be the result of trauma.

 

[VHunter]

We removed the L&P, shortened them, and applied gel-resine (aka tip-n-dip, only one thin layer) & Shellac.

After some thought and troubleshooting, we have determined that the cause was A) they WERE too long and B) during that 6wk time frame, she helped move 2 people.

When she first started coming, she kept them short. BUT she fell in love with the nail art I wear and she wanted them longer and gradually grew them longer.

When we switched her from uv gel to L&P, I didn't realize that the lift she had started experiencing was from the length.
I had "assumed" it must be my fault due to my inexperience with L&P (although, most of my l&p clients aren't experiencing issues).
Looking back, I now realize it was because they were too long.
(If my own nails don't lift.... then my application must be fine).
She had been fine with the lift because she appreciated the 'learning curve' and has been a loyal client for quite some time.

They haven't worsened, there is still no sign of infection. She's keeping up with daily application of oil & Tea-tree oil (to prevent 'greenies' from appearing in the separation).

I wish all of you could have clients as sweet and as understanding as this one. She truly IS a real DOLL!

 

[VHunter]

PS: for the record, I NEVER efile UNDER the nail except on the rare occasion that I get a 'dribble' of product under there that I missed and remove that.
Otherwise, I NEVER do it. I don't see the need for it, and frankly I don't think it's a good idea. If overfiling can happen on top of the nail plate, it can certainly happen underneath.

 

[mum]

What a good bit of investigation with a good result!

Don't you love it when that happens??

 

[VHunter]

LOL thanks to everyone.
I had forgotten about her moving someone till we sat and talked some more.

I had forgotten how very short she had them when she first started coming to me.

I'll be happy only when they are all back to normal. I hate that this happened...
We've switched her to every 2wks instead of 3 just to keep a closer eye on things until it's all sorted out.

Thanks again peeps:hug:

 

[VHunter]

Here's an update:

We started with using only Shellac. Although she loved the Shellac, she didn't get on with it because her nails were breaking. At her insistence, we used a bit of gel-resine (tip-n-dip) but only VERY VERY thinly. THEN Shellacked over top of that.
She got on better that way and appreciated the risks as I explained them.

Last night, she was dead set on having L&P again. She missed her funky art.

I kept them VERY VERY short. There is indeed some improvement. See pictures below to show the change in 8 weeks. (re-adding the original so you can see them close together without scrolling)
She is a religious user of oil and a VERY well behaved client that way. She has researched extended hyponichiums on her own and wants to start pushing hers back gently.
I told her not to until the Onycholosis is completely gone.
Her nails in this pic are just after coming out of soaking off and some filing to shorten them again. They are dried out a bit from the repeated soaks for tip-n-dip as I was avoiding filing at all costs. But she's lavishing them with oil and balm as we speak.

 

[Annebet]

Wow they look great now

 

[VHunter]

Well, while I wouldn't say great, they are definately coming along. I'll take another picture in another month to show the improvement again.

thanks!

 

[bright star]

Hi there,

I'm wondering what she does for a job? Onycholysis can be caused by metal poising, trauma or vitamin deficiency. You mentioned it's only on one hand, is she right or left handed?
Just something to think about

 

[VHunter]

It's on her left, and she's a righty.
She's an office administrator at a University.

But we did figure it out. Her nails had been longer than she was accustomed, and she had helped her mom to move.

It's all grown out now

 

[honeybeartalons]

hi there, i dont mean to be critical of your work, but is there any chance that you could have overfiled them, only sugesting this as i have done overfiled my own nails and caused onycholysis ( i also have naturally thin nails and wore them long) took me a long time to admit to myself that it was my own fault!!

 

[VHunter]

As was said, it was due to the move of her mother from one home to another.
AFter MUCH conversing and figuring things out, it was realized that at the time of her Mother's move, we had sculpted them longer than usual for a fancy design that she wanted.
They were beyond her comfort length.

She was invited to this forum to review this thread and follow it with me.
We looked at all the options.

Since this was a one time occasion and it has only happened to her on this one occasion and never to any other client; we ruled out over-filing.
She became a client of mine DUE TO the overfiling and etc of another Tech.

Keeping in mind: she does have an extended hyponichium on several fingers.
This is something she has had for years.
This is also thought to have contributed to the condition due to the delicacy of her hyponichium.

Thanks.