Onycholysis? Why?

[VHunter]

I have a regular client of 2yrs.
She has worn UV Gel for 1.5yrs. For the last 6mths,she has been wearing L&P. (approximate timeline)
I have NEVER seen this happen to any of my clients. I'm at a total loss.
There seems to be no signs of infection (yellowing, flaking, redness, greenies.. etc) Her nails have always tended to be naturally thin like paper.

Her last set, her nails were perfectly fine. Did a soak-off and new set today and was STUNNED.
All on ONE SIDE of the nails only, she has onycholosis.
Recently, she wore them longer than usual. There was zero lift, nor breaks BUT one chipped nail. COULD catching them when they are too long for her 'lifestyle' have caused this? It's limited to her left hand, except a pinky on her right (that she bashed terribly, and I mean TERRIBLY).
I don't know if it's relevant, but she also has a VERY high hyponychium, so much so that there is skin still attached to the free edge's underside..
Her health is apparently fine. Nothing changed recently.

Any thoughts? In this photo, they have just finished soaking.

 

[SJK]

Hi Victoria

There is no photo attached?

Sarah

 

[VHunter]

oops where did the picture go?
Here we go again LOL

 

[SJK]

Never seen anything like it. We need Geeg or Mum here for their advice I think!

 

[VHunter]

Yeah...I agree

What I find particularly BIZARRE is how it tends to be to one side of the nail, mostly...... An infection would be all over the place. BUT why only one hand and only one side of those nails????

 

[NoLimitNails]

I would say wearing them longer can lead to onycholysis, but looks funny that it's all on one side, unless she caught them/did something several times...

Will enjoy following this thread :hug:

 

[An*Gel]

My guess is, that it's because she wore them longer than usual and she may have been opening a car door, fridge... the usual and pulled them.

The enhancements were obviously strong enough and well adhered to the nails, so didn't lift or break, but the damage was done to her natural nails underneath.

The sidewalls of the nails are taken in a bit if you don't mind me saying and may have resulted in them being weaker or did you file them that way after soaking?

 

[VHunter]

She has a lovely c-curve naturally... so that might be distorting the view? And I do find that when she's 'fresh' from a soak, that they turn in a bit more than usual. I didn't file the sidewalls after her soak.
Only the free edge a tad to shorten them some more once I spotted the Ony and grew concerned about her 'catching' them.

I don't mind constructive critique. It's meant with the best of intentions :green: :hug:

Her hyponychium is so high, than she can't wear anything shorter than active length or you file the actual hyponychium.

PS: she generally wears a very thin overlay because she's NOT rough on her hands, like some of my clients. And I don't find it necessary to build much of an apex, just enough to have that lovely curve. Whereas on some clients, I might put it a tad thicker due to how heavy handed they are or how flat their nails are. In truth, if her fingers were bigger, I'd probably use her as a hand model, but she has exceptionally tiny nails.

 

[An*Gel]

She has a lovely c-curve naturally... so that might be distorting the view? And I do find that when she's 'fresh' from a soak, that they turn in a bit more than usual. I didn't file the sidewalls after her soak.
Only the free edge a tad to shorten them some more once I spotted the Ony and grew concerned about her 'catching' them.

I don't mind constructive critique. It's meant with the best of intentions :green: :hug:

Her hyponychium is so high, than she can't wear anything shorter than active length or you file the actual hyponychium.

Yes, I know what you mean and yes it IS hard to tell from a picture.

Bet any money she pulled them on something without realising.
:hug:

 

[VHunter]

This is the set that was removed.........not thick to my mind.:?:

 

[An*Gel]

Ooooh lovely work :hug:

 

[NoLimitNails]

I don't think they have to be to thick for her/it to cause damage. Just the extra length will cause a lot of pressure, it's no fault of yours and maybe not hers, it could be just that extra mm's to blame.

I sometimes have new clients "losing" a couple of nails when they grow just a mm more than they can cope, often they don't like to file them at home,cause they like the extra length.

 

[katiebbaby]

I too have clients whom have a high hyponychium I find they have long nail beds. I am sure it's called solehorn when it grows attached , if I am right it is bed epithilium which has been pushed out,,, mmmm sounds familiar but not right, I will get back to you on that one in morning when dig text book out ha ha xxx

 

[Envy]

I too have clients whom have a high hyponychium I find they have long nail beds. I am sure it's called solehorn when it grows attached , if I am right it is bed epithilium which has been pushed out,,, mmmm sounds familiar but not right, I will get back to you on that one in morning when dig text book out ha ha xxx

What you and Victoria are both describing could very likely be inverse Pterygium - (a wing like growth of skin) this is where (in the case of inverse) where hyponychium has 'fused' to the nail plate.

The most common cause of this I have seen is mechanical force (over filing being the usual suspect) Drilling out the under side is a very common cause as it heats up the hyponychium and causes it to fuse...

Lots of solar oil (or similar will help soften the skin seal back)

Also when the hyponchium is stretched it is more prone to breaking the seal and causing onycholysis (nail plate seperation) - I feel this may be what has triggered this.

Her nails have always tended to be naturally thin like paper.
. COULD catching them when they are too long for her 'lifestyle' have caused this? It's limited to her left hand,

Combine paper thin nails with an overstretched hyponychium and it would not take much to start the seperation... It almost looks like she may have fallen and laneded on the side edge of each and caused the onycholysis to start... So yep, too long for her 'lifestyle' based on condition of her nails...

(It could of course be other things like a habit pick or aggressive cleaning under the free edge when it's already stretched out and damaged...)

hope that helps

 

[VHunter]

I inserted my replies below

What you and Victoria are both describing could very likely be inverse Pterygium - (a wing like growth of skin) this is where (in the case of inverse) where hyponychium has 'fused' to the nail plate.

The most common cause of this I have seen is mechanical force (over filing being the usual suspect) Drilling out the under side is a very common cause as it heats up the hyponychium and causes it to fuse...

Apparently, her nails have ALWAYS been like this. They have been like this since the day she started seeing me. I am disinclined to think it's due to the above reasoning. Not to be argumentative, but only because she said they were always like this. She does use oil, religiously and daily. Nothing has changed. In fact, I have a thread on here somewhere, regarding this condition that Gigi replied to.


Lots of solar oil (or similar will help soften the skin seal back)

Also when the hyponchium is stretched it is more prone to breaking the seal and causing onycholysis (nail plate seperation) - I feel this may be what has triggered this.



Combine paper thin nails with an overstretched hyponychium and it would not take much to start the seperation... It almost looks like she may have fallen and laneded on the side edge of each and caused the onycholysis to start... So yep, too long for her 'lifestyle' based on condition of her nails...

Ok, but what caused it? She hasn't fallen and we did discuss it at length. Maybe it's just the length of the nails this time?

(It could of course be other things like a habit pick or aggressive cleaning under the free edge when it's already stretched out and damaged...)

Nope, she's not a picker at all.

hope that helps

Thanks for trying though.

 

[marion]

could pinching the sidewalls into a c curve cause this problem. I have cut back on doing this to nails as it can hurt some clients.

 

[maguire]

I would also be interested if someone could pinpoint the cause, as this has happened to my own nails, in fact excatley like Victoria's client, but my nails are not thin. My nails are okay now but it does happen now and again, is it over use of monomer? I don't know. Geeg where are you maybe you would know what the cause is

 

[mum]

Ooofff! I can see why you were so shocked Victoria!

I think there are 2 clues here:
1. the damage is on the same side on each finger
2. the sensitive skin under the free edge

The hyponychium grows like this on a specific shape of nail as it seems to need extra support from underneath. They are usually an almond shape and often have a tapered free edge. The nails can sometimes be a bit delicate (not necessarily thin) and solvents don't help.

The same side damage looks to me like they have 'derailed'. It is also on the outside which is the side that there is most pressure when using your hands.

My guess is that there has been too much length (the body has already grown some extra support for the free edge) and the nails have been too wide at the free edge and therefore put too much pressure on the outer side walls.

These nails are now too damaged to wear enhancements for quite some time. They could not take the added weight.

My suggestion would be to give them a couple of thin layers of resin for protection, make the shape more oval (to take pressure off the sides) and suggest that she use Solar oil and maybe some tee tree to keep them as clean as possible.

Anyway, some thoughts

 

[geeg]

OK here is my two cents worth although I completely agree with envy and Marian that the reasons they give could be a cause .... here's another take on it. You may not like this one.

In my experience I have seen, gazillions of times, that right handed technicians tend to 'over work' or over file on the right hand side of the nail. I don't mean filing ON the natural nail but when straightening up the sidewalls when finishing they can over file along the right hand side (continually going back to it again and again like some bad habit because it is comfortable). Remember there is a small free margin of natural nail here and it is even bigger when prepping for rebalances ... this is a very vulnerable area when filing. If this is a possiblilty with you then try to correct a bad habit. Once your filing is done there then LEAVE it and be conscious of that natural nail along the free margin.

What happens is the file breaks the seal of the perionychium (lateral fold) and the nail tends to de-rail on the favoured side where you may be over working/filing/shaping it.

I've done it on myself so I know!! I used to make my own nails as narrow and sleek as I possibly could and in so doing broke the 'seal' along several side walls of my widest nails Since not wearing enhancements and only wearing Shellac all the 3 nails have grown back perfectly and no more onycholysis on the sides. So take a look also at what you may inadvertently be doing which could cause this to happen. :hug:

 

[VHunter]

could pinching the sidewalls into a c curve cause this problem. I have cut back on doing this to nails as it can hurt some clients.

I never pinch the c-curve. I have c-curve sticks in my drawer, but they're still in their original packaging untouched. I've been afraid to use them for that reason.

I would also be interested if someone could pinpoint the cause, as this has happened to my own nails, in fact excatley like Victoria's client, but my nails are not thin. My nails are okay now but it does happen now and again, is it over use of monomer? I don't know. Geeg where are you maybe you would know what the cause is

I wondered myself, if over-wet ratio, because my teacher taught that with colours, to work wetter... ?

Ooofff! I can see why you were so shocked Victoria!

I think there are 2 clues here:
1. the damage is on the same side on each finger
2. the sensitive skin under the free edge

The hyponychium grows like this on a specific shape of nail as it seems to need extra support from underneath. They are usually an almond shape and often have a tapered free edge. The nails can sometimes be a bit delicate (not necessarily thin) and solvents don't help.

The same side damage looks to me like they have 'derailed'. It is also on the outside which is the side that there is most pressure when using your hands.

My guess is that there has been too much length (the body has already grown some extra support for the free edge) and the nails have been too wide at the free edge and therefore put too much pressure on the outer side walls.

These nails are now too damaged to wear enhancements for quite some time. They could not take the added weight.

My suggestion would be to give them a couple of thin layers of resin for protection, make the shape more oval (to take pressure off the sides) and suggest that she use Solar oil and maybe some tee tree to keep them as clean as possible.

Anyway, some thoughts

YUP, she has a bottle of tea-tree oil and I encouraged her to use it daily to prevent any issue as water can get under there.
If you look at the picture with the art of what they were before removal, the free-edge isn't flared. She went 3 weeks before the removal, so they did grow considerably in length and she did have them longer than usual to start with....
She is using her oil regularly.

OK here is my two cents worth although I completely agree with envy and Marian that the reasons they give could be a cause .... here's another take on it. You may not like this one.

In my experience I have seen, gazillions of times, that right handed technicians tend to 'over work' or over file on the right hand side of the nail. I don't mean filing ON the natural nail but when straightening up the sidewalls when finishing they can over file along the right hand side (continually going back to it again and again like some bad habit because it is comfortable). Remember there is a small free margin of natural nail here and it is even bigger when prepping for rebalances ... this is a very vulnerable area when filing. If this is a possiblilty with you then try to correct a bad habit. Once your filing is done there then LEAVE it and be conscious of that natural nail along the free margin.

What happens is the file breaks the seal of the perionychium (lateral fold) and the nail tends to de-rail on the favoured side where you may be over working/filing/shaping it.

I've done it on myself so I know!! I used to make my own nails as narrow and sleek as I possibly could and in so doing broke the 'seal' along several side walls of my widest nails Since not wearing enhancements and only wearing Shellac all the 3 nails have grown back perfectly and no more onycholysis on the sides. So take a look also at what you may inadvertently be doing which could cause this to happen. :hug:

I understand what you're saying... but... the truth is.. I find that most of my work, on 'my' left of their nails, it's always nicer and flusher than on 'my' right of their nails. I think I actually do reverse of what you suggest.

We did put enhancements back on because I was concerned at leaving them in fear of them not having enough 'support' and getting torn.
So I should remove and apply resin instead, and perhaps Shellac instead?

THANKS everyone