Trained or Not That is the Question

[pennijar]

Trained or Not That is the question, we seem to have lots of peeps around at the moment who seem to want to do their training via the experienced geeks on the site. OK on the face of it, but all the experienced geeks have taken time and paid out good money that perhaps they have had to really struggle to save to get to the superstar status that they have now among us the minions.

OK you say these untrained geeks are going to get the urge to do professional training, but are they? or are they just going to set up using all the knowledge and tips gained on here some will try too this is a fact of life.

What can we do about it? we can give information on training courses until we are blue in the face, but there are life's takers out there who will do nothing about it unless it is free or given to them on a plate.

It makes me shudder when you think about it, imagine going to a tech who has done no training at all, knows nothing about contra indications, contra actions, anatomy and physiology and doesn't even know the basics about the natural nail apart from what has been gleened from this forum.

I know HABIA are having more input into the industry, but I feel that it is not enough to stop the mavericks from going out and setting up their own business, well not at this time anyway, perhaps in the future when councils get more savvy things will improve, but how can they, what do they have to know to ensure the safety of Joe Public?.

What can the product companies do to avoid this? and more importantly what can we as geeks do to ensure we do not help this situation to arise.

I hope this is thought provoking enough to be entered for the Geekmollian prize.

Joan

 

[Vetty]

To be honest, I think there are people on this site who will just take, take, take and not do any formal training themselves. BUT...... mostly they will be found out - the 'tech to be' will find out that this nail lark is actually quite tricky, clients will suss that their nails look pants and bin the tech, the tech will struggle to get products and keep stock..... etc, etc.

As geeks we can only keep banging the drum about training, btw, who's 'better' someone with enough passion and drive to teach themselves or someone who did 1 course 15 years ago and is still banging out the same nails now? We can give information, discourage the self-taught, point out potential pitfalls (like being sued!).....

In a nutshell, we can't stop it and who can? But I believe 99% of the self-taught will find it too hard, too much hassle and give it up. Most of these poeple see nails as a way to a quick buck, which most of us know that it isn't!! When they're not making any money, spending 3 hours doing nails that look pants how many will carry on? Not many I reckon!

Good thought-provoking thread btw.

 

[geeg]

There is too much experience and good competition around for any amateurs to ever really make a good living out of nails without training.

However, I do think there is a HUGE number of hobby techs and amateurs that ARE taking a huge number of potential clients away from the professionals. Many women will have their nails done by their daughter or their friend or someone else's friend who 'dabbles' in nails .. and all these are potential business for the professionals. OK the nails might be pretty bad, but they will go once or twice or for a one off occasion and they don't know a good nail from a bad nail anyway. All they want is something longer than what they've got already!! This is the main reason why I object to hobby techs and amateurs.

There will however always be a high end and a low end to our industry. There will always be cut price salons or individuals for those who don't care and just want cheap.

As for the site teaching the untrained ... this site can't teach anyone how to do nails. what it can do is inform those who want informing and that is not a bad thing even for the hobbyists or amateurs ... may even make them hungry to get on and really get some training. In fact this has happened many times here on the site, where we have seen ones go on to greater things ... So, no, I'm not worried about peeps learning here .... that is positive ... if they don't go on, they will never 'get on' either.

 

[gillian w]

I suppose one thing that helps is that it can be difficult to get certain companies products unless you have had the training and understand the product, those that have trained have a duty to uphold these requirements and not sell on sites such as ebay etc.
I would never have the confidence or gall to work as a nail technician without training.
Although i must also add that a certificate does not necessarily prove you to be any good.
I think training standards have dropped a lot in the past in the beauty industry as a whole but i also think that they are picking up again.
Im looking at beauty courses for my daughter and qualification requirements have been raised she will need English, and science at A to C plus another 2 subjects A to C and she will be expected to achieve maths at A to C on the course if she doesnt have it when she starts the course.The nail full time nail technicians course is something similar.The courses are hard work, the anatomy and physiology you have to learn is very hard so its not an easy option as a career if you go about it the right way and as i have read here a lot of the company training is very intense,lengthy and expensive.I guess some people will never want to go down the that route due to time and expense.

 

[naturalnails]

I have always maintained that I would rather have competition which is good rather than poor. This helps to raise the reputation within the industry. So I dont have a problem with people learning from here to improve their pre-existing training.

Where you get the hobby techs who have had no training and will not have training because they are doing great nails without it so why should they - they are the ones who are doing the most damage to the industry and clients nails and impression of nail technicians.

It is all well and good that clients will go to their daughters, sisters, neices etc. but if they get a poor job it wont be the "techs" fault, it will be the fault of the nails, of course LOL.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

I think this a fab thread and really there are two flip sides to the coin. I think what we do on here is help people who have had training hone their skills a little BUT it makes them want to take MORE classes! If it were that easy then why have master classes and the like? Because we who are truly dedicated to what we do and want to be professional KNOW that you cannot learn this from a book or the internet. You need someone who is trained to train at your ability and able to correct your faults by watching over you. Even critique on here is all but impossible as the photo is nothing like it is in real life.

It is very obvious by the type of questions asked whether people have had training or not, some very basic stuff that beggars belief. Either that or boy oh boy there are some pig awful training places out there.

I wholeheartedly agree with Gigi and it's a thread I've been wanting to do for a while about SOME hobby techs and part time techs who are really making it hard work for those whom nails is their sole source of income ie it's their full time profession. I'm sure a lot of these "cut price" people would charge the going rate if their mortgage payments depended on it!!!!! But by charging silly cheap rates it affects us all.

So now I find I can only charge about £20 an hour for nails which is a highly skilled Level 3 trade, whereas in beauty I can charge £30 -£60 an hour for Level 2 skills. So please don't just pluck your service charges out of the air, charge what we are ALL worth, because you ARE dragging the industry down, and those who are truly great may have to give up as they cannot afford for quality products and training and premises and services if it continues in this cut price war.

Then where will we all be?

 

[izzidoll]

I am totally with Geeg, Vetty, Fiona and Sassy on this one....as someone who
has run a nail business, which paid the mortgage!!

Nails are still my livelihood but I am mainly an Educator now.
So maybe hobbyists and amateurs are even more of a threat to my livelihood now!!.

It has been said before on here that watching a professional do your nails...then reading the tutorials on here for all the prep and health & safety is enough to be able to do your own and families nails!!!
Which we professionals know is a load of cobblers!!!

I love this site....and try and answer geeks questions to the best of my abilities....but I do sometimes balk at answering an obvious amateur with no intentions of training.......So what should I do???...as Vetty says you can tell folk to go and get trained until you are blue in the face....or should I just ignore the thread?...that just doesn't seem right either!

I know there is a big difference answering questions on here...and talking to someone and showing them exactly what I mean in class....and seeing the penny finally drop lol!!....and that is the great thing about a good training course.

So any untrained geeks convinced yet?

 

[rach269]

this is a great thread i did a home course and passed :lol: thought i was great lol then found this site & WOW i feel i have only learnt the real basic's to the nail industry, and so have booked for a foundation course which i carnt wait to learn what i feel i have missed out on i think it will be great the fact that some one will be there to tell me the alternative way or the correct way to do something so yes i think training is a MUST

once again hun great thread :hug:

 

[mum]

Great thread!

Like others (Geeg first) I have no worries about people thinking they can learn here! They can't! They can only improve on a good base.

One of the things I find a bit scary are the mobiles! I absolutely know for a fact that there are many,many excellent mobile technicians in the Uk and on this site and I have no problem with 'mobiles'!

However, due to the nature of the business, mobiles are 'below the radar' for so many legalities. Unfortunately, the 'hobbists' usually fall into this category.

All the good work that is underway to make this professional industry safe, healthy and legal, cannot touch mobiles until there is a problem!

The hair industry used to be the same. That is until the general public realised that there really was a basic standard to be expected! Even mobile!

Hobbists are OK; as long as they don't pretend to be professional. Uneducated technicians are dangerous and will continue to give the true professionals a bad name. But...they will never be successful, they'll just make it take longer for the real industry to be acknowledged.

Who has seen the 'real life Barbie' with her horrible nails?? Who has seen 'Vicky Pollard and her mum' (Dawn French) who need to wear long, false nails with tacky nail art, to make the point that they are??????.....Vicky Pollard!

 

[pennijar]

I am really enjoying reading the responses to my thread, but it is short of a hobbiest or two giving their opinions on what reasons they have for not taking up professional training, and why they think they are so good that they do not have to be trained, unlike us who feel we couldn't go out and work on Joe Public without all the training we can get.

This is a debate and no-one is going to bite your head off I would just like to be able to see both sides represented.

Joan

 

[mum]

I am really enjoying reading the responses to my thread, but it is short of a hobbiest or two giving their opinions on what reasons they have for not taking up professional training, and why they think they are so good that they do not have to be trained, unlike us who feel we couldn't go out and work on Joe Public without all the training we can get.

This is a debate and no-one is going to bite your head off I would just like to be able to see both sides represented.

Joan

Well said Joan!

I have expressed an opinion but am certainly not going to 'bite someones head off'!

Hobbists, please 'discuss'!!

 

[Tiger Jay]

I kind of get your point...........however I am mobile and must admit that I have never felt threatened by the unprofessionals basically because I am my own advert...and if my nails are looking good then what will the potential clients be like.

I'm sure that anyone doing it for a hobby wouldn't be able to apply a cracking set of nails on themselves....as we all know it's easier to work on others than on yourself.

 

[minette]

I agree, without a good base they do not realy learn anything. You need a certain base before you understand what this is al about.

I also agree that most of them (without any training) will not last for long.
However, its a pitty when you see what dammage they can do to someone's nails. On the other hand, I have competition from someone who did a training 15 years agoo and never did anything since, and it's no competition at all. People only go there once and then neve again.

I hope this site wil stay for a long time, because for me it's a great way to read how things are going in other parts of the world (I come from the netherlands). I just passed my exam and am working like 30 hours a weak in this business and hopefully it wil only become more.

Minette

 

[Martigirl]

I have trained VTCT and as part of my HND I still don't feel fully Qualified. I can do a decent set of Gel tip and overlay but know that I still have loads more to learn

 

[pennijar]

I have had some excellent replies so far to the points I raised at the beginning, but I would still like to hear from those of you who have not done any or much formal training, there must be a good reason for your decision, come on and share with us so we can have a balanced discussion showing both sides of the story.

This is what Geeking is all about not just posting but reading and hopefully learning what makes each of us tick, there is two sides to every discussion lets hear yours.

Joan

 

[slhallford]

I'm new! I have never worked on anyone else in any "professional" capacity. I think it would be really dishonest of me to try and pass myself off as an equal to some one with experience and training. I don't feel like there is any substitute for those qualifications. I am going to be able to start my training at the new year and I am thrilled. It will cost more than waiting and going through the community college system, but it will give me that basic foundation that I need work and improve on when I graduate.

One of the reasons that this site is so important to newbies is a reflection of the professional and hygenic standards that need to be met. I read an article in Nails about the best new products in the December issue. One was the Aspire ASP l&p line that's being sold through Sally's. I went to the website and requested some further information. They sent me a DVD with movies of "how to" apply their products. I was shocked to see the nail technician slopping monomer all over the client's fingers. If I hadn't spent so much time here, I probably would have just assumed that was OK. But, we all know that it's NOT! That knowledge alone is invaluable and it keeps people safe.

S

 

[ValencianNails]

There have been hobbyist techs in the past who have come on to the site and basically said they weren't going to get trained OR who were already doing nails on friends and family with no formal training whatsoever... we have, in some cases, been able to persuade those particular peeps to get some training and the results have spoken for themselves, not only do they now know how to apply enhancements correctly, their work has come on in leaps and bounds.

So many people think that being a nail technician is easy, little do they know exactly how much hard work and grafting goes into our chosen career to help us gain the right skills and techniques.

Training all the way in my opinion, I don't think anyone can call themselves a technician without any sort of nail education.

And the best bit is that we will help them all we can once they've decided to take the right path.

Excellent thread Joan

 

[pennijar]

I'm new! I have never worked on anyone else in any "professional" capacity. I think it would be really dishonest of me to try and pass myself off as an equal to some one with experience and training. I don't feel like there is any substitute for those qualifications. I am going to be able to start my training at the new year and I am thrilled. It will cost more than waiting and going through the community college system, but it will give me that basic foundation that I need work and improve on when I graduate.

One of the reasons that this site is so important to newbies is a reflection of the professional and hygenic standards that need to be met. I read an article in Nails about the best new products in the December issue. One was the Aspire ASP l&p line that's being sold through Sally's. I went to the website and requested some further information. They sent me a DVD with movies of "how to" apply their products. I was shocked to see the nail technician slopping monomer all over the client's fingers. If I hadn't spent so much time here, I probably would have just assumed that was OK. But, we all know that it's NOT! That knowledge alone is invaluable and it keeps people safe.

S

Thank you for your reply, I am really pleased that you plucked up the courage to contribute. Good luck with your training in the New Year.

Joan

 

[sc in canada]

I'm glad this topic has been brought up. Here in Canada each province does it's own thing some are licenced and others a certified. Here in Alberta we are certified, the responsiblity falls on distributors to police the industry. Almost all of them require proof of certification before they will sell you any product. Now with that being said with Ebay and how easy it is to get professional products on the web, who will police that. Manufactors can oly do so much to make sure that their products only end up in the hands of trained professionals, but what about the tech who is getting out of the business and sells all their stuff on Ebay to make a few bucks??

If we think about it products are needed to make enhancements right.. no products.... no one doing nails who isn't trained....

Just my 2cents
SC

 

[huerta3]

There is too much experience and good competition around for any amateurs to ever really make a good living out of nails without training.

However, I do think there is a HUGE number of hobby techs and amateurs that ARE taking a huge number of potential clients away from the professionals. Many women will have their nails done by their daughter or their friend or someone else's friend who 'dabbles' in nails .. and all these are potential business for the professionals. OK the nails might be pretty bad, but they will go once or twice or for a one off occasion and they don't know a good nail from a bad nail anyway. All they want is something longer than what they've got already!! This is the main reason why I object to hobby techs and amateurs.

There will however always be a high end and a low end to our industry. There will always be cut price salons or individuals for those who don't care and just want cheap.

As for the site teaching the untrained ... this site can't teach anyone how to do nails. what it can do is inform those who want informing and that is not a bad thing even for the hobbyists or amateurs ... may even make them hungry to get on and really get some training. In fact this has happened many times here on the site, where we have seen ones go on to greater things ... So, no, I'm not worried about peeps learning here .... that is positive ... if they don't go on, they will never 'get on' either.

Oh I am soooo happy to hear someone say that! I am amature but really really want to go to school, there just isn't any in my area at the mo. Sometimes I feel really bad because I don't want anyone to think that I am just using you all. This site has done nothing but inspire me and drive me to go to school. Once my husband gets out in Feb I am going to look into go to a school about 45min away but I will be able to afford it then. Thanks Geeg, thanks geeks!!!!:hug: :hug: :hug: