Trial days in salons - paid or unpaid?

[Lynne Baker]

I'm of the opinion that if your in business and concentrate on making a profit then your doing it wrong!

If you don't concentrate on making a profit then you won't be in business for very long.
I'm in business to stay in business; I do that by offering a damn good service.
It's a chicken and egg thing, but I will gamble a whole month's takings that your bank won't give a bugger if you offer the best service imaginable but you're only breaking even by doing it.

Let's take a hypothetical situation regarding the trial days.
So, you interview 30 young people for a job. 20 of them look hopeful so you offer them an updaid trial day to see "how they gel with the team".
You have all but 3 weeks' worth of labour, sweeping, smiling, brewing and helping. FREE.
Not on. No sirree.

Yes, I know this is an exteme example but it illustrates the point.
Yes I know it's hard work on all the existing staff, babying an "intern" for the day.
Yes, you're not going to make much money out of them directly.

That said - in the dark watches of the night this kind of sharp business practice should keep one awake.

Shameful behaviour.

That's why new members of staff are on a probationary period; to let them settle in, freak out a bit, make a few mistakes, and most importantly, to see whether they want to work with you as much as you want to keep them.
It's a two way thing.

 

[lea2721]

I have never had an employee and i have not had a trial day, so can't speak from experience.

However, i agree with previous posters that a trade test should not be paid. It should be fairly short on members of staff and i wouldn't even object to a file and polish on a client to view client skills, but nothing more.

A full day or even half day trial day is something completely different and it should be paid. Even if it is agreed beforehand that they are going to pay you a set amount, not per hour for this one off time.

If i were looking for an employee, i would do a trade test and then if i liked their work, have them working at a paid post, but under a trial period of up to three months. It makes much more sense than a trial day as you can see how someone is day in day out and their punctuality, etc xx

This is exactly how it should be and really agree with a trade test then amployment on a probationary period.. A days trial does not show you punctuality or how they are every day its very easy for one day to act your best so a trial day is just silly , and thats why what you have said makes total sense xx

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[BABSann]

I have never had an employee and i have not had a trial day, so can't speak from experience.

However, i agree with previous posters that a trade test should not be paid. It should be fairly short on members of staff and i wouldn't even object to a file and polish on a client to view client skills, but nothing more.

A full day or even half day trial day is something completely different and it should be paid. Even if it is agreed beforehand that they are going to pay you a set amount, not per hour for this one off time.

If i were looking for an employee, i would do a trade test and then if i liked their work, have them working at a paid post, but under a trial period of up to three months. It makes much more sense than a trial day as you can see how someone is day in day out and their punctuality, etc xx

When I left college and got my first ever job in salon I was asked to come in for a trial day. It was the first day of my employment so I was being paid. The owner said she wanted me just to have a settling in day to see how things were done.

I went in only to be told one of the therapists were off sick and would I feel happy with doing her column. I was a bit unnerved but fine as I was confident at college and done a lot of friends and family in between.

I earnt that salon about £200 pounds and was on minimum wage at the time. I was absolutely shattered and run off my feet( though i thoroughly enjoyed it i must say)Now if I hadnt been paid for that day who exactly would have got that money?

Craig I just don't undstand how (a) you can justify not paying staff for doing a trial day yet you charge the clients for the treatments and (b) how you determine that your salon doesn't make money from someone doing a trial.

The only way I can see this would be fair would be to not charge the clients during your trial days or give a set amount.

Anyway, I've said enough now

 

[joeydee]

I haven't worked in the beauty industry yet...starting my course in August but I have done unpaid trial days in a few restaurants and I am of the mind set that if I go for a job now and that is what I need to do to secure the position then they can forget it.

I have been waitressing and working in bars since i was 16(18 bars) and I am a damn good waitress, customers love me and I am efficient and hard working. I went for 2 unpaid trial shifts a couple of years ago in 2 up market restaurants in Glasgow, 6/7 hour shifts each. One was on a busy Friday night, I didn't get a break or anything and was told at the end that I was excellent and had the job and they would contact me with shifts and to come in and fill paperwork in...never heard from them again. Think the just used me to cover a night they knew they were going to be short staffed. Same with the other one, I covered a busy lunch time shift and was sent to the shop for lunch for the manager but didn't get a break myself. Same again,told I had the job,filled out my details for getting paid and stuff and never heard from them again. I called them back a few times and was told they would get back to me with shifts...still waiting.

From what I have read on here, a trade test should be enough to know if an employee is going to be good enough and then should they get the job, the 13 week standard trial period should apply. Personally I think a full unpaid trial shift is exploitation having been on the receiving end of it!

 

[essentia]

A trade test and interview at the expense of the employee, but a trial period at the expense of the employer. One day will not really let an employee's potential really come through anyway but in 3 month's it will.

I think expecting people to work unpaid is frankly an outmoded and unrealistic idea and cannot be considered a benchmark on which to judge character. If they take that time to apply and go throught the process they should expect to be reimbursed. Careful interviewing, a record of their qualifications and work history with supporting references should be a good indication of their abilities. The trial period should hopefully support that.

 

[laurakate]

I thought it would be nice to hear everyone's opinions, both salon owners and employees, whether trial days should be paid or not. It seems to be a big issue at the moment.
In my opinion they should be paid. I have been used far too many times to do a free trial day or more when looking for a job. I am very happy to do a trade test -anything let's say up to 2-3hours on a member of staff. That should be enough for them to see my skills and interaction with the "client".
Few times I was put into a situation when after the interview I was asked to come back and spend the whole day working on paying public for free and they considered this as a "trial day".
What does everyone think ? Should trial days be paid or unpaid?

I don't think there should be such a thing as a "trial day".

An employer who cares about their reputation would do an interview and then a trade test where the person being considered for the job works on a member of staff. This is in as much the employers interest as the candidate for the job in the sense that, if the candidate isn't up to the standard required by the employer then they would be foolish to let them loose on clients in terms of looking after their business.

A good employer should be able to tell from an interview and trade test whether the person is up for the job. As far as I'm concerned (and I have enough experience of this to be able to comment with confidence), a "trial day" is just a means of getting free labour because the employer is desperate for staff (and if this is how they go about employing people then there's probably a good reason for that too). Even doing a trail day where the candidate for the job is paid doesn't add up in my opinion because frankly, its still too messy. You're either employed or you're not. Since when did any other industry offer people paid trial days for example?!

There are people out there who follow the recruitment process properly but I'm sad to say that in my experience it has been a minority. But chin up, because having been to interviews where things aren't done well, it will give you a good sense of when to know a good employer.

 

[laurakate]

Following on from a previous thread. I don't see why trial days should be paid. As I had explained in that thread, I as an owner wouldn't ask my staff to do anything I wouldn't do, and yes I have been to unpaid trial days in the hope of securing a position with a company/employer.

If a company/employer asked you to go along to an interview, would you asked to be paid for your time?.........

Craig

If someone goes for an interview at (for example!) Tescos would they expect to be paid?

If someone works a full shift at Tescos, would they expect to be paid?

Why should the beauty industry be any different?

 

[andrea27]

Well said Laura. There shouldn't be such things as trial days - it's very unusual in any other industry. Last time I went for a "trial" day - all I did was: set up a new coffee machine (I found that absolutely ridiculous), swept and mopped the floor, separated tissues, cleaned bowls.
At the end of the day the owner just said "Bye, thank you". No money, nothing. And I felt so used like never before.
I went back the next day and demanded my money. She gave it to me no problem. Since then I am extremely careful and suspicious once they start talking about a trial day.

 

[craig_studio17]

Guys your taking what I've said way out of context. My apologies...

At the end of the day I'm looking for so much than just a hair stylist or beauty therapist. The team I am building at the moment within my salon are (fingers crossed) going to be the backbone of my business. As I said I'm not looking for a few folk to fill a few positions I have. I want bright, ambitious people who are willing to do anything to become successful individuals. The more successful your team are, the more successful your business becomes!!

It all depends of course on what type of individual you are and what value you consider the position your applying for to have.... Which of course can also be reflected in the company. The staff I have at the moment seen our salon as a great opportunity to become part of and went all out to impress. They wanted a trial, getting paid £35-£40 was the last thing on their minds. They seen that this opportunity was worth so much more than a few quid! These are the people I'm looking for, these are the guys that seen that we're an ambitious company who want to grow, grow & grow.

Thanks!

Craig

 

[TMH]

Guys your taking what I've said way out of context. My apologies...

At the end of the day I'm looking for so much than just a hair stylist or beauty therapist. The team I am building at the moment within my salon are (fingers crossed) going to be the backbone of my business. As I said I'm not looking for a few folk to fill a few positions I have. I want bright, ambitious people who are willing to do anything to become successful individuals. The more successful your team are, the more successful your business becomes!!

It all depends of course on what type of individual you are and what value you consider the position your applying for to have.... Which of course can also be reflected in the company. The staff I have at the moment seen our salon as a great opportunity to become part of and went all out to impress. They wanted a trial, getting paid £35-£40 was the last thing on their minds. They seen that this opportunity was worth so much more than a few quid! These are the people I'm looking for, these are the guys that seen that we're an ambitious company who want to grow, grow & grow.

Thanks!

Craig

30 to 40 quid is quite a bit of money to lots of people and if you feel that it isn't, then what would you lose by paying them for trial days, especially if they are earning you a few hundred for a days work


I work because I need money, not because I love my job so much that I'll do it for nothing. If I had pots full of dosh then there's no way I'd slog away at it every day.

 

[jcpark]

Guys your taking what I've said way out of context. My apologies...

At the end of the day I'm looking for so much than just a hair stylist or beauty therapist. The team I am building at the moment within my salon are (fingers crossed) going to be the backbone of my business. As I said I'm not looking for a few folk to fill a few positions I have. I want bright, ambitious people who are willing to do anything to become successful individuals. The more successful your team are, the more successful your business becomes!!

It all depends of course on what type of individual you are and what value you consider the position your applying for to have.... Which of course can also be reflected in the company. The staff I have at the moment seen our salon as a great opportunity to become part of and went all out to impress. They wanted a trial, getting paid £35-£40 was the last thing on their minds. They seen that this opportunity was worth so much more than a few quid! These are the people I'm looking for, these are the guys that seen that we're an ambitious company who want to grow, grow & grow.

Thanks!

Craig

I don't think anything has been taken out of context. I understand your reasoning behind the approach, but don't think that looking for someone who wants something badly enough they will work for free is the best approach to take.

You're absolutely right that a successful team is essential to a successful business and as such, good employees need to be valued and respected. Taking advantage of them, even if they are desperate enough to agree to the terms, won't help to set up a good working relationship. Value and respect go both ways.

The quality, ambitious staff that you say you want, tend to have confidence in their abilities and you risk most not agreeing to those terms. You are far more likely to get the desperate (particularly in the current climate where jobs are hard to come by) and risk getting your fingers burned as you have done with the last girl you took on.

 

[craig_studio17]

I don't think anything has been taken out of context. I understand your reasoning behind the approach, but don't think that looking for someone who wants something badly enough they will work for free is the best approach to take.

You're absolutely right that a successful team is essential to a successful business and as such, good employees need to be valued and respected. Taking advantage of them, even if they are desperate enough to agree to the terms, won't help to set up a good working relationship. Value and respect go both ways.

Thats the part thats maybe been taken out of context. Not once have I said that, this is your view on my opinion. I've not taken advantage of anyone, my staff however did take full advantage of the opportunity!

Craig

 

[craig_studio17]

I don't think anything has been taken out of context. I understand your reasoning behind the approach, but don't think that looking for someone who wants something badly enough they will work for free is the best approach to take.

You're absolutely right that a successful team is essential to a successful business and as such, good employees need to be valued and respected. Taking advantage of them, even if they are desperate enough to agree to the terms, won't help to set up a good working relationship. Value and respect go both ways.

The quality, amitious staff that you say you want, tend to have confidence in their abilities and you risk most not agreeing to those terms. You are far more likely to get the desperate (particularly in the current climate where jobs are hard to come by) and risk getting your fingers burned as you have done with the last girl you took on.[/QUOTE]

On that one, we never got our fingers burned, we had a lucky escape!

 

[Lynne Baker]

They wanted a trial, getting paid £35-£40 was the last thing on their minds.

Words utterly, utterly fail me.
Such hubris.

 

[user 52471]

I hate trial days, since completing my level 2 in beauty therapy I've had nothing but grief while looking for a job because of 'trial days' or even a 'week trial' and since completing my level 3 in nails it's been worse.
I'm a nice person, which I can prove during an interview and I'm confident in my work, which I can prove in a trade test. Do you want me to work for you? Will I gel with you and your staff ? Will I want to work for you? Those questions won't be answered in a day, employ me give me a 3 months (or however long) probation period and we'll see how it goes.
I don't like trial days, but to be back on point, if they're going to happen at least have the courtesy to pay them, you know they want the job that's why they applied in the first place and attended the interview.

 

[BABSann]

Words utterly, utterly fail me.
Such hubris.

My sentiments exactly Lynne.

The staff that would work for free are either too embarrassed to speak up or desperate for the job which sadly a lot of people are during this climate.


Craig your comments about looking for so much more than JUST a hairstylist or beauty therapist is extremely patronising. So you're basically saying that all of us who have said we wouldn't work a free days trial are nothing special? Just because staff wouldn't accept non payment doesn't mean they are any lesser a therapist than one that would believe me. Some of us can't afford not to work, some have childcare, travelling expenses, mortgages. People don't work for the pure hell of it. No matter how much they love their jobs or how conscientious they are. Life's tough out there. You're lining your pocket whilst the therapist is working and that's unfair.

The simple fact is we are not mugs, we work hard,have years and years of experience,some of us have our own or had our own businesses and know how it really is out there. We don't believe ourselves to be so desperate that we work our backsides off all day, giving fantastic treatments along with fantastic client care to then go home without being paid.

I'm sorry but most of the excellent staff you are wanting won't be accepting your request of doing a trial day for free. Why would we when we can work and get paid.

 

[craig_studio17]

My sentiments exactly Lynne.

The staff that would work for free are either too embarrassed to speak up or desperate for the job which sadly a lot of people are during this climate.


Craig your comments about looking for so much more than JUST a hairstylist or beauty therapist is extremely patronising. So you're basically saying that all of us who have said we wouldn't work a free days trial are nothing special? Just because staff wouldn't accept non payment doesn't mean they are any lesser a therapist than one that would believe me. Some of us can't afford not to work, some have childcare, travelling expenses, mortgages. People don't work for e pure hell of it. No matter how much they love their jobs or how conscientious they are.

The simple fact is we are not mugs, we work hard,have years and years of experience,some of us have our own or had our own businesses and know how it really is out there. We don't believe ourselves to be so desperate that we work our backsides off all day, giving fantastic treatments along with fantastic client care to then go home without being paid.

I'm sorry but most of the excellent staff you are wanting won't be accepting your request of doing a trial day for free. Why would we when we can work and get paid.

Incidently craig are you also against paying your staff whilst they go away to do their facial products training etc? Just wondered?

Hi,

I've not stated in any of the above in anything I've said. It did not mean to read in a patronising manner. Our ideas of what we're looking for and how we run our business are clearly at opposite ends of the scale... I already have 4 of the excellent staff I was looking for using this system, they will be the benchmark for future ventures within the company when any expansion may occur. If the senior staff have done it, why shouldn't the junior or new staff do it??....

We ask our staff if there are any courses which they would like to go on or feel the need to go on. If there is good reason for it then we will send them on the course which is fully paid by the business and they are paid for the time out while on the course.

Thanks

Craig

 

[lea2721]

Well said Laura. There shouldn't be such things as trial days - it's very unusual in any other industry. Last time I went for a "trial" day - all I did was: set up a new coffee machine (I found that absolutely ridiculous), swept and mopped the floor, separated tissues, cleaned bowls.
At the end of the day the owner just said "Bye, thank you". No money, nothing. And I felt so used like never before.
I went back the next day and demanded my money. She gave it to me no problem. Since then I am extremely careful and suspicious once they start talking about a trial day.

I felt exaclt the same no thankyou nothing i put my all in to it and by the end of the day i felt used and like i was rubbish kept thinking i cant do it thats why they have not took me on as apprentice, but relised now i wouldnt want to work for people like that any way one employee was thinking of giving up her career to work in a call centre so says it all really.
I wish i had the guts to go back and ask for money though because o didnt x

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[lea2721]

I don't think anything has been taken out of context. I understand your reasoning behind the approach, but don't think that looking for someone who wants something badly enough they will work for free is the best approach to take.

You're absolutely right that a successful team is essential to a successful business and as such, good employees need to be valued and respected. Taking advantage of them, even if they are desperate enough to agree to the terms, won't help to set up a good working relationship. Value and respect go both ways.

The quality, amitious staff that you say you want, tend to have confidence in their abilities and you risk most not agreeing to those terms. You are far more likely to get the desperate (particularly in the current climate where jobs are hard to come by) and risk getting your fingers burned as you have done with the last girl you took on.[/QUOTE]

On that one, we never got our fingers burned, we had a lucky escape!

To be honest i think she had a lucky escape its beyond me for any one to think right ok your desperate for a job work for free and of you dont you dont want the job i mean lets face it the ones who will be thinking like that are the ones just starting out not the ones with a histroy in the career because they would know to avoid an employer who suggest's a trial day

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[laurakate]

This is why it's so hard for newly qualified people to get a break in the industry in that it's not that there aren't jobs about, it's just that the jobs that are easier to get are the ones where you're expected to do things like trial days and accept cash in hand payment (probably out of the till).

It is this sort of thing that leaves newly qualified people stuck between a rock and a hard place and it's sad to think that a lot of people are alienated from getting a foot in the door in the hair/beauty/nails industry because of this.

I remember thinking "am I so wrong for wanting to be recruited/employed legally and officially" which at the time was really stressful.