UV-cured polish peels and chips and shrinks and wrinkles? Does it?

[geeg]

Let me give an explanation to those who have mentioned it, as to why it is so easy to buy Uv colour coats with only a manicure certificate. The reason that came about is actually quite simple.

No one can deny that until Shellac exploded onto the scene , coloured GEL polishes ( and yes, there were a few about) were largely ignored ... There was certainly no big deal about them.

Along comes Shellac which is so different to gel and marketed absolutely brilliantly as the instantly dry 14-day manicure that it is, to a NEW market of women who were not having salon services on a regular basis. BOOM .. The industry explodes ... New business is generated, failing salons are revived and as Shellac is more of a POLISH and behaves like a polish, it was assumed that any manicurist could use it without a class as it was also assumed that any manicuriist could POLISH. All anyone would need was a qualification in manicuring (which should darned well include having been taught tha ability to do a perfect polish job) !! From what we now know, most manicuring classes only include a demonstration of ONE nail having been polished correctly to gain a mani qualification ...... Rediculous isn't it? Absolutely rediculous when the polish is the crown of a good manicure.

Anyhow ... The rest of the story is simple. With the unprecedented popularity of Shellac, anyone who was selling a thin coloured gel lept into action to sell it on the same basis as Shellac ... to anyone with a mani certificate EVEN though they know nothing about gel, prepping a nail for gel, how gel works etc!

Gazillions of inexperienced women have seen an opportunity to do a one day class in manicure, in order to buy into this new market ... And that my friends is why there are so many people having so many problems and why people should take a class particulary if they are investing in GEL as it really is a different ball game to Shellac. It is my opinion that even with Shellac it should be mandatory to do a class, even for an experienced manicurist just to help them succeed with it.

 

[Gilly T]

Forgive me for this but a one day certificate in manicure is a disgrace!! It took me months to perfect ALL of my manicure techniques not to mention light and dark polishes and the perfect French!

I run an after school club for duke of Edinburgh with fourteen year old girls and they have spent three months working on massage techniques, polishing techniques, nail, hand and skin anatomy/function etc.

I'm speechless really :|

I apologise to everyone who I am offending including those fantastic educators that provide one day courses in manicure but I do feel this is doing the industry and our clients a disservice

 

[kasik]

I agree mostly with your feelings, but two things I see different.

First of all, I blame more clients, who accept sloppy work, because it is cheap and only price matters to them. They are first to blame, beacuse as long as someone will be happy with blusky shellac for 10pounds chipping and lifting withing a week, someone will be doing it. (on the other hand, those people probably would never pay regular price, they do not see the quality difference and it is most suprising thing, that I can not understand, I have a friend like it... amazing really)
Second - strict regulations will not help. It only makes more difficult and more expensive for pros to buy new products, but there will always be ebay, fake products etc. So what's the use?
It is not a problem exclusive to nail industry - fakes, dumping prices, bad quality work - usually market regulates it: who is going for quality will find good service, but there always be some part of market where only price matters - those are not our clients anyway.

Many similar "problem" threads here - yes, a bit annoying, but there is no way to avoid it I'm afraid. Maybe move them to one thread?

 

[Gilly T]

Do you not feel that it is as if poor skill is being condoned by not actually promoting the need for the full range of skills needed to complete a service?

I agree mostly with your feelings, but two things I see different.

First of all, I blame more clients, who accept sloppy work, because it is cheap and only price matters to them. They are first to blame, beacuse as long as someone will be happy with blusky shellac for 10pounds chipping and lifting withing a week, someone will be doing it. (on the other hand, those people probably would never pay regular price, they do not see the quality difference and it is most suprising thing, that I can not understand, I have a friend like it... amazing really)
Second - strict regulations will not help. It only makes more difficult and more expensive for pros to buy new products, but there will always be ebay, fake products etc. So what's the use?
It is not a problem exclusive to nail industry - fakes, dumping prices, bad quality work - usually market regulates it: who is going for quality will find good service, but there always be some part of market where only price matters - those are not our clients anyway.

Many similar "problem" threads here - yes, a bit annoying, but there is no way to avoid it I'm afraid. Maybe move them to one thread?

 

[kasik]

Do you not feel that it is as if poor skill is being condoned by not actually promoting the need for the full range of skills needed to complete a service?

Once again please? I do not understand the question..

 

[Gilly T]

Once again please? I do not understand the question..

Apologies. If the industry says you only need a one day manicure course to enable you to provide shellac, gelish, whichever - when clearly this isn't enough, don't you feel it is promoting poor skills in the industry? It's ok saying it is also clients fault too by choosing poor quality but would poor quality be in abundance if people had to train thoroughly according to the skills they ACTUALLY needed.

 

[geeg]

I think we have to agree that in any market there is a high end and a low end and frankly a sort of black market end. There will always be people who go to the lowest. Even with strict standards in place, in today's world, the black market would just grow bigger. People are greedy ... They see a 'want' in the case of manicure courses and provide the shoddiest they can get away with providing ... They should never be accredited by anyone.

We have to ensure that we put ourselves in the place that will attract the clients WE want. Many are content to be in the massive middle ... I have never been a middle girl ... Always high end! Always an innovator. We are all different. I don't need to ask 5000 people if they think something is good, before I do it .. I KNOW instantly, and then make sure I am the best at doing it whatever it takes.

With anything from CND, if I was having trouble using it, I would know that the problem was with ME ... I completely trust CND to bring out the best (and they have never let me or my business down in 25 years when it comes to innovating new fabulous products). So if I was having trouble ... I'd be booking classes until I got it right. Having said that, I never had a Shellac class until I started to teach them lol ... Never needed to as it was so simple.

 

[kasik]

Oh no, do not apologise, my english is not fluent enough .

Industry wants to sell sell sell. There is only a small number of companies thinking about nail market actually - I respect CND for that. It is unreal, that companies will promote long courses thinking about end effect on clients hands - oh no, they will push for more sales mostly, nobody cares what you can do, as long as you buy products. You have certificate? Great, it means you are qualified. What kind of certificate? Who cares? And it can not be done other way, beacuse I do not think people would be willing to pay for expensive long courses only to buy a product, everobody would probably stick to the first course and first product bought - and which company is going to loose potential clients? So they except certificate no matter what kind it is, and that is why you can find bad but cheap courses, which teach you nothing..

I simply think, that market regulates it. Always. If you really want to learn, want to do nice nails, you will find right course, right product - because you want to see astonishing effect of your work, not beacuse you are pushed to take courses in order to buy something.
I have seen walls of diplomas and really bad nails done in the same place .
I understand it has to be done, as something has to be done to protect company's image - but it does not change a lot. Maybe a bit - some of the people hitting the wall trying to buy shellac will probably take a class, but some of them will just go to ebay.
Personally I do not mind people doing sloppy work, they only make mine look amazing . Some of them will learn and in a few years they will be great techs as well. Some of them will vanish. And new one will show. It is the same in every industry, the best thing is to do the best work you can do and do not look back at the others. It always worked for me , and Germany is really full of bad services, amazing country..

 

[kasik]

I'd be booking classes until I got it right. Having said that, I never had a Shellac class until I started to teach them lol ... Never needed to as it was so simple.

I prefer asking fellow techs and searching forums . And I had no Shellac class as well, at first there wasn't any, then it was, but with full Shellac set that I already had, then they stopped organizing workshops. And I would gladly join one, just for fun. And diploma of course . Anyway, I had no problems with any system, I always test how it works on a few friends, and to learn routine, and so far so good. Maybe next year I will visit friends in UK and take classes in Leeds would be nice.

 

[geeg]

I prefer asking fellow techs and searching forums . And I had no Shellac class as well, at first there wasn't any, then it was, but with full Shellac set that I already had, then they stopped organizing workshops. And I would gladly join one, just for fun. And diploma of course . Anyway, I had no problems with any system, I always test how it works on a few friends, and to learn routine, and so far so good. Maybe next year I will visit friends in UK and take classes in Leeds would be nice.

You would make you most welcome! Let me know and we will have some fun.

 

[kasik]

Last summer I was on Costa Brava, I was even thinking of you - I would love to meet you, maybe next time . You are icon of the nail industry for me I was worshiping your nails on the wall together with my clients I have never seen more beautiful nails than on the solar nail poster. Still miss it, it was destroyed when I moved to Germany, but it is the only poster with L&P that I would want on the wall.
/butter up mode off

 

[geeg]

Industry wants to sell sell sell. There is only a small number of companies thinking about nail market actually - I respect CND for that. It is unreal, that companies will promote long courses thinking about end effect on clients hands - oh no, they will push for more sales mostly, nobody cares what you can do, as long as you buy products. You have certificate? Great, it means you are qualified. What kind of certificate? Who cares? And it can not be done other way, beacuse I do not think people would be willing to pay for expensive long courses only to buy a product, everobody would probably stick to the first course and first product bought - and which company is going to loose potential clients? So they except certificate no matter what kind it is, and that is why you can find bad but cheap courses, which teach you nothing..

I simply think, that market regulates it. Always. If you really want to learn, want to do nice nails, you will find right course, right product - because you want to see astonishing effect of your work, not beacuse you are pushed to take courses in order to buy something.
I have seen walls of diplomas and really bad nails done in the same place .
I understand it has to be done, as something has to be done to protect company's image - but it does not change a lot. Maybe a bit - some of the people hitting the wall trying to buy shellac will probably take a class, but some of them will just go to ebay.
Personally I do not mind people doing sloppy work, they only make mine look amazing . Some of them will learn and in a few years they will be great techs as well. Some of them will vanish. And new one will show. It is the same in every industry, the best thing is to do the best work you can do and do not look back at the others. It always worked for me , and Germany is really full of bad services, amazing country..

The industry indeed does want to sell sell sell ... And who can blame them? The market is buoyant and we should be thanking the universe for that.

Can you all really believe it? At a time in the world where there are more wars, violence, horrible natural disasters, famine, recession and all manner of horrible things that flipping NAILS and beauty would stand up and grow in the midst of all THAT??

I have to confess that I feel somewhat guilty about prospering in such an environment! But I like to think that we at S2 do take the long view regarding selling and not the short-term view. We still have the highest standards and maintain them and want our customers to maintain them too.

It does really irk me greatly when I see someone post about how Shellac (or even some other brand) has MADE their business and their question now is , "Where can get the same thing cheaper?". Talk about being greedy?

I don't mind this thread going in another direction or off the original topic as long as it generates good discussion so please carry on discussing ... That is the important thing! :biggrin:

 

[Rinn]

well i only took my shellac attack course a couple of weeks ago as i have been using shellac problem free for 2 years but needed a cert to keep insurance happy. i must say to get the cert itself was worth it... it's so funky. love it.

at the end of the day if you are any good you'll do well. the cream always rises to the top.

 

[geeg]

All training is worth it ... I have never trained and not got something out of it and it has never been only a pretty certificate (although that is nice) .... Mine are all collecting dust somewhere! Lol. The only certs I ever put on the wall were my Master Series of Certificates .... ! That was a great achievement way back when :biggrin:

 

[Rinn]

for sure geeg, you always learn something new or pick up more hints and tips.

 

[Wooshka]

I think that the reason there are so many issues here on salon geek with gel polishes (and don't take this personally, anyone ) is because the people using them who are having all the 'issues' are NOT fully trained nail technicians ... Many are not really even well trained manicurists!

I would wager that 50% of all those starting colour coat services, dont really even know how to do a professional polish job; they are polishing like consumers polish and not like pros which is why they have SO many problems.
Many have never bothered to take a class with the product they are using and come to salon geek to ask questions instead of a class.

Looking at salon geek posts you'd think every brand of coloured UV-cured polish peels and chips and shrinks and wrinkles as a normal thing!! Most of theses issues are application issues and all of them have to do with polishing too thickly! If the people offering the service were trained how to polish .... They wouldn't be having the problems !

The ones you never hear from on here, are mainly the full service technicians who just picked up Shellac (or a gel Polish) and simply romped away with it because they are trained and experienced professionals and they know how to polish and they know how to use gel.

My point is that many have quickly jumped into the market on the back of colour services because they are hugely popular with a new breed of client; they think it is an easy service to perform, and they are neither experienced nor really trained to a high standard, which is why they are experiencing service breakdown. They don't understand 'systems' don't know that using the correct UV Lamp is vital to their success ... yada yada yada.

Anyone care to discuss how they feel about the proliferation of posts here on salongeek regarding UV Polish problems and how to solve them and why they think so many are having these problems? Agree, Disagree??

Agree?
Day in, day out, I come into SG and most of the 1st and 2nd pages are filled with Shellac or SOGP problem threads and I will admit that for weeks now I just usually leave and come back again later to see if I can help anyone with other issues.
The reason I rarely post in any of these threads to try and help anyone is because, really in a nut shell, the questions are all the same and have been answered MANY times before and because too many times it is revealed that the person having the problems is not using their products as a entire system and/or they have had no/little training and they have not bothered to do anything much to help themselves.
Yes the odd thread is a completely NEW issue and that's fine but I feel another problem is, people don't seem to want to think for themselves anymore.
They don't seem to want to trust themselves and the training they have had and sit and work through the problems with their product and company of choice, instead as already mentioned in this thread, they want instant fix.
Just because we have been trained does not mean we can turn off our own brains, we must continue to use them and think for ourselves and continue to get training when needed.

As for those who are not trained at all on any level and who offer ANY kind of service, barhumbug to you! You only bring shame to our industry and any problems that they have with Shellac or SOGP, well you bought them on yourself.

Education is the key to ANY professional industry and this includes the Shellac and SOGP boom and for me it really is as simple as this...... Be trained in all services you offer, as times change you must re-train to change with those times and the biggest one of all, use the FULL system as it was intended to be used and then if you still have problems, then ask for help.
The second someone tries to short cut on a SYSTEM to save a buck here or there, is the second you are guaranteed to find problems and will continue to do so.

If you have problems, look at yourself first before blaming the product, ask yourself are you doing ALL you can and should be doing with your chosen product and if you get a no answer in there anywhere, go and do something to fix it.
So for example, if you know you have had no training, go get some, if you know you are using the incorrect uv lamp against the manufacturers advice for your chosen system, go buy the correct lamp and use it correctly, if you know your system says to cure for 2 minutes, then cure for only 2 minutes not 3 minutes cause YOU think it's better, etc etc and then if you are still having problems, then there is possibly a REAL problem, not just the problem of someone trying to take short cuts and get away with it and want a quick fix.

I use Polish Pro as anybody who knows me, knows and I love it.
I have used it from the day of launch and not had any problems that were fault of my own, the only problem I had was my product going too thick but NSI realised their product was doing this and fixed it and since then, I've had no problems at all. I use it exactly how it is intended incl all the additional products like Cleanse, Nail Pure etc and never vary from it no matter what.
I am fully trained in all enhancement services incl mani/pedi and I did NOT go into using SOGP thinking it was a quick and easy service to do, like I think many people think it is and I think this is why I have not had any problems.

There you go Geeg, these are some of my thoughts on this subject:Love:

 

[geeg]

Agree?
Day in, day out, I come into SG and most of the 1st and 2nd pages are filled with Shellac or SOGP problem threads and I will admit that for weeks now I just usually leave and come back again later to see if I can help anyone with other issues.
The reason I rarely post in any of these threads to try and help anyone is because, really in a nut shell, the questions are all the same and have been answered MANY times before and because too many times it is revealed that the person having the problems is not using their products as a entire system and/or they have had no/little training and they have not bothered to do anything much to help themselves.
Yes the odd thread is a completely NEW issue and that's fine but I feel another problem is, people don't seem to want to think for themselves anymore.
They don't seem to want to trust themselves and the training they have had and sit and work through the problems with their product and company of choice, instead as already mentioned in this thread, they want instant fix.
Just because we have been trained does not mean we can turn off our own brains, we must continue to use them and think for ourselves and continue to get training when needed.

As for those who are not trained at all on any level and who offer ANY kind of service, barhumbug to you! You only bring shame to our industry and any problems that they have with Shellac or SOGP, well you bought them on yourself.

Education is the key to ANY professional industry and this includes the Shellac and SOGP boom and for me it really is as simple as this...... Be trained in all services you offer, as times change you must re-train to change with those times and the biggest one of all, use the FULL system as it was intended to be used and then if you still have problems, then ask for help.
The second someone tries to short cut on a SYSTEM to save a buck here or there, is the second you are guaranteed to find problems and will continue to do so.

If you have problems, look at yourself first before blaming the product, ask yourself are you doing ALL you can and should be doing with your chosen product and if you get a no answer in there anywhere, go and do something to fix it.
So for example, if you know you have had no training, go get some, if you know you are using the incorrect uv lamp against the manufacturers advice for your chosen system, go buy the correct lamp and use it correctly, if you know your system says to cure for 2 minutes, then cure for only 2 minutes not 3 minutes cause YOU think it's better, etc etc and then if you are still having problems, then there is possibly a REAL problem, not just the problem of someone trying to take short cuts and get away with it and want a quick fix.

I use Polish Pro as anybody who knows me, knows and I love it.
I have used it from the day of launch and not had any problems that were fault of my own, the only problem I had was my product going too thick but NSI realised their product was doing this and fixed it and since then, I've had no problems at all. I use it exactly how it is intended incl all the additional products like Cleanse, Nail Pure etc and never vary from it no matter what.
I am fully trained in all enhancement services incl mani/pedi and I did NOT go into using SOGP thinking it was a quick and easy service to do, like I think many people think it is and I think this is why I have not had any problems.

There you go Geeg, these are some of my thoughts on this subject:Love:

Lol wooshka, you have made my point perfectly.

Those who are already well trained technicians do not seem to find new things difficult to pick up but SOME do over-think things and make what should be perfectly simple, much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

...

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

Id like to go off on a slight tangent and ask everyone to think about this...clearly the gel polishes and the uv polishes are what is big in this industry right now, and for a long time various 'nail' kits & other salon service type kits have been available to buy in argos & boots, etc but now there are even more of these kits coming into our high street shops and on groupon etc... Gel polish and uv polish kits are not just lurking in the back of the Argos book anymore...They are there plain to see & hard to miss in many high street shops more so than ever I think....

Putting myself in the customers shoes... Wow a gel kit with a lamp, some colours & everything I need to do my nails myself at home... It says it's easy to do and everything I need is here in a package and for less than £100!

I have noticed recently that more and more of our customers at the salon are mentioning to me that they've seen this new gel polish kit in boots and it looks quite good OR so and so has bought one of those new kits.
A few people have asked me what I think to them as they were thinking of buying there daughter one & i a nutshell I think what thay are really trying to ask is... Why should i keep coming to you for this service when i can buy one of these new kits???

I would really like to know how everybody else is going to answer these questions effectively and get the point accross to the customer without sounding like your just scared of losing business?

 

[Planky1]

Id like to go off on a slight tangent and ask everyone to think about this...clearly the gel polishes and the uv polishes are what is big in this industry right now, and for a long time various 'nail' kits & other salon service type kits have been available to buy in argos & boots, etc but now there are even more of these kits coming into our high street shops and on groupon etc... Gel polish and uv polish kits are not just lurking in the back of the Argos book anymore...They are there plain to see & hard to miss in many high street shops more so than ever I think....

Putting myself in the customers shoes... Wow a gel kit with a lamp, some colours & everything I need to do my nails myself at home... It says it's easy to do and everything I need is here in a package and for less than £100!

I have noticed recently that more and more of our customers at the salon are mentioning to me that they've seen this new gel polish kit in boots and it looks quite good OR so and so has bought one of those new kits.
A few people have asked me what I think to them as they were thinking of buying there daughter one & i a nutshell I think what thay are really trying to ask is... Why should i keep coming to you for this service when i can buy one of these new kits???

I would really like to know how everybody else is going to answer these questions effectively and get the point accross to the customer without sounding like your just scared of losing business?

Quite simply, you get for what you pay for. Coming to a fully trained, qualified and Insured technician, using high end professional products is worth a lot more than a "kit" you can buy from Argos. That there will always be cheaper alternatives but they are cheap for a reason and we nail technicians are trained to use products properly and professionally. The amount of comments I've had over the years of people saying I can never get my polish to look as good as a professional does, it's clear to see that most people can never do the job as well as we can and that's why they come to us. Anyone can slap on a bit of polish or attempt to create gel nails for example but will it look good? Will it last? No.

It's not a matter of sounding like you're scared of losing business, just stating the true facts.....you get what you pay for :wink2: