Wella professionals

[Thiago]

Sometimes people rebel against their colour, and if say they want highlights with an all over lighter colour, that's ok, or if they are adamant they want lightest possible I'll talk them into lifting the all over tone too, but customers dark lev 4 and below wanting a few white blondes thRough I simply say its not possible... Well it is but would you prefer it to be in the bin or like cotton wool? Lol.

If you think the colours will work out, there is no point refusing on the bases of someone else's opinion, even on here, how will you know if you have never experienced it yourself?

I had a lady the other day I actually coloured her hair twice as she was a regular and wanted all over full head as light as possible, from full head foils, I told her would be too light and advised more a natural tone around a 9 but nope, white.... Ok, your the boss, once finished I put the doubt in her head myself as I hated it, so said, lets dry the top and see if you feel to Brit and maybe tone it down if you do, thankfully she did, because I would have called her a couple days after, the colour itself looked nice don't get me wrong, just not on her. But without trying she would not have known as she had been saying for a while and I had managed to hold her off doing it for almost a year, in the end I chose to do it and prove why I was advising not too lol.

Yeah that's so right.. If a client ask for it I will do if I see that it won't damage the hair. Then why not but your right u have 2 try always hehehe


xxx

 

[sbbbjm]

a friend of mine with level 2, straight (but not coarse) asian hair, had an ombre done and it's obvious the stylist didn't lift her high enough bc i can see warm/copper undertones. i even asked her if her hair was orange or yellow after bleaching and she said "reddish-orangey." her hair was toned down to a level 6 or 7 using a Goldwell demi ash shade which i've used before and the coverage is more tranluscent. in the end, it's still warmer she'd like, and she hates that it fades out after a couple months.

on another note, i once had some platinum chunks in my hair and instead of taking the time to fill it (pre-pigment), i covered it up with a 44/0 but i can't remember what developer i used. all i know is that i used some really deep clarifying shampoos known to fade color, and those 44/0 pieces i have are still dark as ever and haven't faded.

with the info that my 44/0 hasn't faded, to really cover up my friend's underlying orange, i was thinking i could cover it with:

88/0 Koleston + small amount of /88 and /28 Special Mix

OR

88/0 + 8/2 + 9/8

is this a good idea? should i use Pastel or 10 vol? i want truly opaque coverage over that underlying pigment with minimal fading, and i figure doing it once with Koleston is better than putting hydrogen peroxide on her hair every 2 months since Color Touch and Relights much faster than KP. the catch is, i want the color to really open up the cuticle and get in there, but i don't want to lift her base at all.

my friend is really meticulous about her hair and uses sulfate free shampoo, Joico Revitaluxe treatment as her conditioner, and uses argan oil on her ends after every shampoo. her hair is in amazing condition considering it's been processed about 3 times. anyway ...

thoughts?

 

[NiCshairstudio]

a friend of mine with level 2, straight (but not coarse) asian hair, had an ombre done and it's obvious the stylist didn't lift her high enough bc i can see warm/copper undertones. i even asked her if her hair was orange or yellow after bleaching and she said "reddish-orangey." her hair was toned down to a level 6 or 7 using a Goldwell demi ash shade which i've used before and the coverage is more tranluscent. in the end, it's still warmer she'd like, and she hates that it fades out after a couple months.

on another note, i once had some platinum chunks in my hair and instead of taking the time to fill it (pre-pigment), i covered it up with a 44/0 but i can't remember what developer i used. all i know is that i used some really deep clarifying shampoos known to fade color, and those 44/0 pieces i have are still dark as ever and haven't faded.

with the info that my 44/0 hasn't faded, to really cover up my friend's underlying orange, i was thinking i could cover it with:

88/0 Koleston + small amount of /88 and /28 Special Mix

OR

88/0 + 8/2 + 9/8

is this a good idea? should i use Pastel or 10 vol? i want truly opaque coverage over that underlying pigment with minimal fading, and i figure doing it once with Koleston is better than putting hydrogen peroxide on her hair every 2 months since Color Touch and Relights much faster than KP. the catch is, i want the color to really open up the cuticle and get in there, but i don't want to lift her base at all.

my friend is really meticulous about her hair and uses sulfate free shampoo, Joico Revitaluxe treatment as her conditioner, and uses argan oil on her ends after every shampoo. her hair is in amazing condition considering it's been processed about 3 times. anyway ...

thoughts?

So in short, you friend was a base 2 and the stylist lifted to an undertone for a 5 and toned to a 7?

Was it natural colour or coloured level 2? And for how long? If your not trying to lift why would you tone with an 8 on a base 6/7? On a lev 2 roots ombré I'd advise no higher than a 6 anyway, if she is still very warm and wants an ashy tone you need something with a blue base, joico 7a with INS would prob work but you may need to lift a little more, which as we know tint wont lift tint so bleach bath... Which on top of everything else may not be advisable... All colours will fade ontop of blonde, joico last the longer out of all I have used, matrix next, im sure others will give their input on colour selection in your desired range.

But you won't get any lift on top of the colour so 20 would be useless.

 

[NiCshairstudio]

Depending on her current colour (I'm guessing its faded) you may be able to try 12/11 koleston with an addition of grey/blue if they have one and 40 to get a slight lift and add ash, then rinse and tone with a quasi to have more hold again with ash. May just work. Without seeing her hair I don't know exactly but do a test piece and try a few options. I would

 

[Leila1712]

Hi all if i want to lift from a level 4 natural hair to a platinum blonde ( only few parts in her hair ) how should I go about that without killing it? She has normal hair a bit curly in good condition

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[NiCshairstudio]

Hi all if i want to lift from a level 4 natural hair to a platinum blonde ( only few parts in her hair ) how should I go about that without killing it? She has normal hair a bit curly in good condition

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using SalonGeek

Natural lev 4 or coloured hair? And have you tried talking her into not going quite so light?

 

[Leila1712]

Natural lev 4 or coloured hair? And have you tried talking her into not going quite so light?

Natural hair.. I did but she wants lilac hair... Wont work if not on a very very light blond im not sure how but i think its possible since she has natural hair? How do you think i should do it?

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[NiCshairstudio]

Natural hair.. I did but she wants lilac hair... Wont work if not on a very very light blond im not sure how but i think its possible since she has natural hair? How do you think i should do it?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using SalonGeek

Ahhh you didn't say purple lol I was imagining skunk stripes lol.

If virgin hair, needs to be bleached up to very pale yellow, and virgin hair should get there, tint would be too warm and end up too yellow so purple would end up more icy than lilac as it would be toning the yellow lol. Do a strand test though for best result, test it x

 

[sbbbjm]

Depending on her current colour (I'm guessing its faded) you may be able to try 12/11 koleston with an addition of grey/blue if they have one and 40 to get a slight lift and add ash, then rinse and tone with a quasi to have more hold again with ash. May just work. Without seeing her hair I don't know exactly but do a test piece and try a few options. I would

NiCshairstudio - she is a natural level 2 (normal to fine, straight asian hair)

great suggestions! i do have 12/11 and 12/81. would it be worth adding some of the Special MIx /11 or /88 to it too?

in regards to why i wanted to use 88/0 - her highlights were def lifted to more of a level 7 (not a 5). i just checked w/ a swatch card, bc you had me thinking i had my levels mixed up (wouldn't be the first time, ha). the idea behind using the level 8's is that Wella in general tends to be a level darker, the double pigments tend to look a shade darker, the matte green tone tends to look a level darker, AND previously colored hair tends to grab the color darker. geez that was a mouthful. anyway, i wanted to make sure i wasn't darkening the entire job. using 10 vol or pastel was to insure i wasn't lightening at all but still getting the more permanent coverage of Koleston.

i know going from a level 2 to a level 7 sounds like there's too much contrast to look good, but the placement and the fade is actually really tasteful and (would be) expensive looking if not for the orange. 90% of the ombres i see suck, but i was really pleasantly surprised with truly seamless placement on hers.

we do happen to have someone who cherry picks a few things from Joico at my salon. are you suggesting i use the Chrome or permanent line and which developer?

are you saying that Joico as a whole tends to last longer than Wella? ... or just the demi or just the permanent? would you say Joico is opaque/saturated like Koleston or more tranluscent/luminous like Illumina?

AND finally one last question

We barely ever use Pastel in my salon for toning, so we mainly use Color Touch. plus, our creative director for color *hates* breaking the base and says its lazy hair dressing (i think he's a little full of it bc there's a time an a place for breaking the base if done right). Anyway, what's the difference between using CT Emulsion 6 vol and Pastel? what is the actual vol of Pastel? I know Pastel was originally created in order to cut the ammonia and use Koleston more like a demi, but that's about it. and what's more ... how about CT Emulsion 6 vol VS Pastel VS 10 vol?

thanks a bunch in advance! you've been a great help

 

[NiCshairstudio]

NiCshairstudio - she is a natural level 2 (normal to fine, straight asian hair)

great suggestions! i do have 12/11 and 12/81. would it be worth adding some of the Special MIx /11 or /88 to it too?

in regards to why i wanted to use 88/0 - her highlights were def lifted to more of a level 7 (not a 5). i just checked w/ a swatch card, bc you had me thinking i had my levels mixed up (wouldn't be the first time, ha). the idea behind using the level 8's is that Wella in general tends to be a level darker, the double pigments tend to look a shade darker, the matte green tone tends to look a level darker, AND previously colored hair tends to grab the color darker. geez that was a mouthful. anyway, i wanted to make sure i wasn't darkening the entire job. using 10 vol or pastel was to insure i wasn't lightening at all but still getting the more permanent coverage of Koleston.

i know going from a level 2 to a level 7 sounds like there's too much contrast to look good, but the placement and the fade is actually really tasteful and (would be) expensive looking if not for the orange. 90% of the ombres i see suck, but i was really pleasantly surprised with truly seamless placement on hers.

we do happen to have someone who cherry picks a few things from Joico at my salon. are you suggesting i use the Chrome or permanent line and which developer?

are you saying that Joico as a whole tends to last longer than Wella? ... or just the demi or just the permanent? would you say Joico is opaque/saturated like Koleston or more tranluscent/luminous like Illumina?

AND finally one last question

We barely ever use Pastel in my salon for toning, so we mainly use Color Touch. plus, our creative director for color *hates* breaking the base and says its lazy hair dressing (i think he's a little full of it bc there's a time an a place for breaking the base if done right). Anyway, what's the difference between using CT Emulsion 6 vol and Pastel? what is the actual vol of Pastel? I know Pastel was originally created in order to cut the ammonia and use Koleston more like a demi, but that's about it. and what's more ... how about CT Emulsion 6 vol VS Pastel VS 10 vol?

thanks a bunch in advance! you've been a great help

Wella pastel... I checked out as I don't use it and it says its basically a re formulated 3% specially formulated to be used with 9/03 or 10/03 naturals, 9/16 9/17 9/38 10/1 10/3 10/8 10/16 10/38 rich naturals and 9/7 deep brown (??? How can a 9 be brown? Lol)

So I don't think pastel would be advised with 88/0- which I get you point if she is a level 7 at the min, however above you said 6/7 and reddy orange is an 5 undertone, so sounds like (as you said) was not lifted light enough to begin with so they have managed to get another shade of lift but still not been able to reduce the warmth undertone effectively.

I don't know why I thought you said 20 lol if toning 10 dev would be perfect.

I do kind of agree with your colour tech, about the breaking the base, there is a thread that was running discussing it, as someone mentioned it and I had never heard of it, and personally think its mainly a money making ploy that ultimately causing more work when it comes to do roots on virgin and the mid section of the broken base to match the length but like you say I'm sure it has a time and place.

Don't know if you have tried it but a beautiful toner I used to use alllllll the time is 7/1 ct weak mix, and watched closely as will change all of a sudden and then in no time go grey! But on bleached hl left too warm its amazing!

If you do a test piece with UHLA and 40 with 25% of mix INS (so so 20 ml colour is 5 ml INS but don't include the INS in your mixing colour to peroxide-so if 20ml UHLA 5ml INS 20 ml dev) then once lifted normally 60 mins max, may possibly need to tone a lil more of the warmth. TSB is an amazing toner on the colour side I use with glaze when my level is 10 or above and 10 if I need slight lifting too, v9 chrome with activator is amazing too!

If you do a test piece too for TSB with INS and 10 vol. If the right level base this could work in removing all the warmth as you need to get the colour in the hair shaft.. Do tests though to see which route is best.

I don't think I have missed anything lol.

A beautiful toner for the joico range too is all 3 toners mixed so TSB, TPP &TPB

 

[sbbbjm]

Wella pastel... I checked out as I don't use it and it says its basically a re formulated 3% specially formulated to be used with 9/03 or 10/03 naturals, 9/16 9/17 9/38 10/1 10/3 10/8 10/16 10/38 rich naturals and 9/7 deep brown (??? How can a 9 be brown? Lol)

So I don't think pastel would be advised with 88/0- which I get you point if she is a level 7 at the min, however above you said 6/7 and reddy orange is an 5 undertone, so sounds like (as you said) was not lifted light enough to begin with so they have managed to get another shade of lift but still not been able to reduce the warmth undertone effectively.

I don't know why I thought you said 20 lol if toning 10 dev would be perfect.

I do kind of agree with your colour tech, about the breaking the base, there is a thread that was running discussing it, as someone mentioned it and I had never heard of it, and personally think its mainly a money making ploy that ultimately causing more work when it comes to do roots on virgin and the mid section of the broken base to match the length but like you say I'm sure it has a time and place.

Don't know if you have tried it but a beautiful toner I used to use alllllll the time is 7/1 ct weak mix, and watched closely as will change all of a sudden and then in no time go grey! But on bleached hl left too warm its amazing!

If you do a test piece with UHLA and 40 with 25% of mix INS (so so 20 ml colour is 5 ml INS but don't include the INS in your mixing colour to peroxide-so if 20ml UHLA 5ml INS 20 ml dev) then once lifted normally 60 mins max, may possibly need to tone a lil more of the warmth. TSB is an amazing toner on the colour side I use with glaze when my level is 10 or above and 10 if I need slight lifting too, v9 chrome with activator is amazing too!

If you do a test piece too for TSB with INS and 10 vol. If the right level base this could work in removing all the warmth as you need to get the colour in the hair shaft.. Do tests though to see which route is best.

I don't think I have missed anything lol.

A beautiful toner for the joico range too is all 3 toners mixed so TSB, TPP &TPB

lol, u missed one thing :biggrin: i'd like to hear your take on Joico compared to Wella. is it opaque, translucent, longer lasting, shinier etc etc? anything really.

i love their treatments and their cream bleach (blondor cream is terrible!), and have been itching to try the Vero K-Pak Color and Chrome.

just a little background on me. i've been a cutter for the last 3 years, but moved on to another departmentalized salon where i still am a cutter but i've gone into apprenticing for the color dept a couple days out of the week. anyway, i've seriously learned more about color reading this thread than i have in 3 months of doing my apprenticeship. even my mentor is impressed with what i already know so far lol. blame it on the researcher and hair geek in me that wants to know how to do everything. so thanks!

anyway ... going to do some test strands tonight.

 

[Bluerinse]

lol, u missed one thing :biggrin: i'd like to hear your take on Joico compared to Wella. is it opaque, translucent, longer lasting, shinier etc etc? anything really.

i love their treatments and their cream bleach (blondor cream is terrible!), and have been itching to try the Vero K-Pak Color and Chrome.

just a little background on me. i've been a cutter for the last 3 years, but moved on to another departmentalized salon where i still am a cutter but i've gone into apprenticing for the color dept a couple days out of the week. anyway, i've seriously learned more about color reading this thread than i have in 3 months of doing my apprenticeship. even my mentor is impressed with what i already know so far lol. blame it on the researcher and hair geek in me that wants to know how to do everything. so thanks!

anyway ... going to do some test strands tonight.

Wella is truly crack! It's an old cobweb that's overdue to be wiped away and forgot about!

 

[NiCshairstudio]

Wella is truly crack! It's an old cobweb that's overdue to be wiped away and forgot about!

Lol blue, you and your one loners hahahaaa

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[Bluerinse]

Lol blue, you and your one loners hahahaaa

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I'm over wella! It has had it's day im afraid! Yes a lot use it but thats because they are scared of change! It's a security blanket!

 

[NiCshairstudio]

lol, u missed one thing :biggrin: i'd like to hear your take on Joico compared to Wella. is it opaque, translucent, longer lasting, shinier etc etc? anything really.

i love their treatments and their cream bleach (blondor cream is terrible!), and have been itching to try the Vero K-Pak Color and Chrome.

just a little background on me. i've been a cutter for the last 3 years, but moved on to another departmentalized salon where i still am a cutter but i've gone into apprenticing for the color dept a couple days out of the week. anyway, i've seriously learned more about color reading this thread than i have in 3 months of doing my apprenticeship. even my mentor is impressed with what i already know so far lol. blame it on the researcher and hair geek in me that wants to know how to do everything. so thanks!

anyway ... going to do some test strands tonight.

Ahhhh sorry i was reading you post when at lighta and had to read again qhilst checking so misses that sorry,

Wella is well erm (hate to do this on a wella thread) but ****e in comparison, i used to use wella if someone wanted to go darker but was unsure as it would last no more than about 4 weeka at a push! !

Joico are truley amazing! They contain all 19 amino acids that make up the hair structure and replace any that arw missing, this is called a quodramine complex or something, but its in their colours, bleeches (which are excellent), shampoos, conditioners and products! !!! I love them, everyones hair is always better on leaving the salon, every customer feels the difference and their colour range is not over produced like matrix, they have main colours then mix some together and tell you the formulars to makw about another 30 colours lol

And their colour stayong power..... Red on blonde was still red 6 weeks later, my lady was being asked of shed just had it coloured The week she was coming back to have it refreshed! It had faded but no where near what you woild expect!

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[NiCshairstudio]

I'm over wella! It has had it's day im afraid! Yes a lot use it but thats because they are scared of change! It's a security blanket!

Oh i know the minute i left my salon i kept the 3 coloura i used in wella 5/0 5/4 and 7/1 lol matrix was my range until their blondes turned to poop and i went searching for another range ao i disnt have to bleech everyone wanting to be blonde lol

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[Bluerinse]

Oh i know the minute i left my salon i kept the 3 coloura i used in wella 5/0 5/4 and 7/1 lol matrix was my range until their blondes turned to poop and i went searching for another range ao i disnt have to bleech everyone wanting to be blonde lol

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Very rare I use bleach! I got 40tubes of highlift! That should get me through ha ha x

 

[NiCshairstudio]

Very rare I use bleach! I got 40tubes of highlift! That should get me through ha ha x

40 wow lol

 

[Bluerinse]

40 wow lol

3 base highlights I personalize with tone but I order 40 so I don't run out x

 

[NiCshairstudio]

3 base highlights I personalize with tone but I order 40 so I don't run out x

I should think you do haha x

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