Why are there so many 'messers' around?

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Oh how I wish my bosses would read this article. I constantly tell them that they should not mix different company powers and monimers and even primers. What is the point of me doing a thorough prep on the client, to then have to use two or three different companies items mixed together.

Lately I have been the one to pop round to Sallys to get more powder or liquid etc. So obviously I only get Aspire monomer and Aspire powders, and I dont care if it costs a tiny bit more than what the others get. I AM NOT AND WILL NOT mix and match if I can help it.

It is their salon and I am employed there, but I cant wait to go mobile so that I can carry on using my EZflow products which were made to work together properly. My bosses insist that ANY primer can be used. In my opinion that is not right. Oh, and how do they know what works together properly?, they are not trained nail technicians, we are, they are hairdressers.

We nail technicians are the ones that get the complaints or are told of complaints actually. It is my reputation I worry about and will do my best to escape this company and their ridiculous ideas. So if someone in the Manchester and surrounding area needs a qualified nail tech since 2006, then please pm me asap!!:)
 
Totally agree with you. The reason companies sell both monomers and polymers is because they are meant to go together and not mixed. I am a member on a German nail forum and someone on there was wanting to know the best mix ratio between retention+ (cnd) and ezflow powders.
When I first started out I tried different products and mixed them, until I went with CND, now I won't use anything else.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using SalonGeek
 
Wow, this thread has really got me thinking and i hope you don't mind my musings..I feel this issue spans across many industries. It's the age old, 'you get what you pay for' philosophy but trying to convey this to clients who are value conscious is sometimes tricky. In my opinion, it's not just the end result but the experience that you pay for. Clients want the wow factor (we all do when we spend our hard earned money) and it's our role as professionals to deliver. If you use a service and really feel that you got your money's worth, then you will go back, recommend to others and that's how the business will flourish. How much of your business is through recommendation? If we are properly trained, qualified, and passionate then we should never have to devalue the service we provide. You should never cut cost to compete with the 'messers' of this world. Their business will not survive but yours will. We should be proud of what we are achieving and continue to move forwards in this fast paced and exciting industry that I'm proud to be a part of. 'messers' will come and go and clients may need a bad experience to fully appreciate the value of the service you provide. May be that's the reason for their existence but hopefully not too many that may tarnish the reputation of our industry.
 
QueenofHearts said:
Wow, this thread has really got me thinking and i hope you don't mind my musings..I feel this issue spans across many industries. It's the age old, 'you get what you pay for' philosophy but trying to convey this to clients who are value conscious is sometimes tricky. In my opinion, it's not just the end result but the experience that you pay for. Clients want the wow factor (we all do when we spend our hard earned money) and it's our role as professionals to deliver. If you use a service and really feel that you got your money's worth, then you will go back, recommend to others and that's how the business will flourish. How much of your business is through recommendation? If we are properly trained, qualified, and passionate then we should never have to devalue the service we provide. You should never cut cost to compete with the 'messers' of this world. Their business will not survive but yours will. We should be proud of what we are achieving and continue to move forwards in this fast paced and exciting industry that I'm proud to be a part of. 'messers' will come and go and clients may need a bad experience to fully appreciate the value of the service you provide. May be that's the reason for their existence but hopefully not too many that may tarnish the reputation of our industry.
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Sadly they do and they are harming our industry!
 
I felt I may have been a bit too optimistic there! Why we must all be that one step ahead, and educate, educate, educate!
 
I agree! I'm only qualified in manicure and shellac so far but I know not to deviate from the manufactures guidance!
Also my nana was getting manicures before I was qualified and where tech said that she never bothers with cuticle work... Nobody does Apparantly! Stuff like this really angers me!
 
Well this has been an interesting read! :)

I do agree with what Geeg has said. I just really hope that one day this experimenting and swapping products here and there to save money does stop. Maybe licences in the UK would help?

Yes I have cut costs in places by buying cheaper products but these have been menial insignificant things, not something which could damage someone or myself. There are ways to cut costs rather than mixing basic items of a system. At college I was always taught to follow the manufacturers instructions and I do believe they are written for a reason.

I am shocked to hear that some suppliers are saying its all the same as I have yet to come across this and hopefully never will. x
 
It all boils down to people trying to cut corners and save money. It may appear that other products work OK with a system you are using, but the will never work as well as the actual products designed by that manufacturer to be used specifically with that product.
 
punkybrewster said:
It all boils down to people trying to cut corners and save money. It may appear that other products work OK with a system you are using, but the will never work as well as the actual products designed by that manufacturer to be used specifically with that product.
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I agree that some people try to save money by being dishonest to clients and messing about instead of giving them a full-system service but many times, the reason they mess about is down to pure ignorance and stupidity and also greed.

There are many badly educated people doing nails (I won't dignify them by calling them professionals) they think they 'know better' .. Don't need to follow the rules .. That it is OK to lie to paying clients and to use them as their personal guinea pigs and to con them out of their money. Too many people fit those descriptions in our industry. Cowboys!
 
What and excellent and thought provoking thread, I have just sat and read it all, and my eyes are now bleeding!!

It's the word "cheap" I hate, can't stand it, straight into room 101 for me.
We have spent a lot of money over the years on training and investing in the right products, complete systems and the best training so that the service offered is the best it can be at all times.

You can be a fantastic therapist/technician/hairdresser etc but if your salon is dirty, you cut corners and buy cheap then it won't work and the business will suffer, the same as an awful therapist/technician/hairdresser etc who spends a fortune and has all the right products and systems and has a state of the art salon still won't succeed if they are no good at what they do.

It is the whole package, being the best you can be with your chosen products, updating training, keeping your eye on the industry to see what is happening re new products etc and researching those carefully before training and stocking and offering the treatment.

It's about professionalism and pride, not only in your work, service and your premesis but in the pride you have in the systems you use.

There are too many out there trying to look for a fast buck and cutting corners at every opportunity. If you can't afford it don't do it if you can't offer the real deal.

Anyway, I'm off for a beer and to watch the football!!
 
What a read!

I believe there are messers in all areas of the beauty industry, and they simply do not understand business or money.

I sigh when I read threads about saving money by buying this lamp or enquiring about "affordable" lines. If you were to ask most of these people their cost per service (using their chosen products) I would be suprised if they could tell you. If you haven't calculated at some point what the cost of an individual wipe is, or know how many services you get out of your bottle of x product then you probably don't have a handle on your expenses.

The most successful way to MAKE money is not to buy "cheap" - but to know the cost of your services (by following set procedures and adhering to portion controls) and charge at a PROFIT. Messers are always looking for ways to SAVE money - what you want to know is how to MAKE money.

Why will women pay ten times more for a Vera Wang wedding dress? Many stores will make knock offs of her designs, but they sell at a tenth of the price. My novice eye probably could not tell the difference. I wouldn't be happy paying Vera's price for the knock off still.

If you have a system that works well, is well branded and marketed, why play with it? Just click your heels together in happiness and charge at a profit.
 
Way i see it, you can learn the hard way or the easy way, the hard way is by messing and mixing brands which leads to mistakes, losing clients, having to start over again and realising that could all have been avoided if you had stuck with the same system in the first place, lol, so ultimately its a very long road for a short cut.
There's really no need to mix systems, you can be very creative within one system, eg colour blends etc, artwork, how much more creative do you 'need' to be. I can honestly say ive never mixed two (or more) systems together
Also If i had a £ for every new client who has said to me "whats that ?" when i pull out the hand sanitiser
The same goes for the Shellac base coat timings, same for cuticle work.
Another one is "why don't you soak off, much faster" Really??? then after ive done it the really 'slow' way, lol they say wow that was faster with wraps on
The thing that really bugs me though is when someone comes in certain of having Shellac on their nails and simply want "same again please !" and can see its not Shellac and have to check how long i can actually spend with them as i know it wont be off in 10 mins grrrr !
 
Brilliant thread !!! Took forever to read it & I'm going to book some Advanced training... :)
 
So you would proberbly call me messer? As I am forever getting complaints but still trying to get the technique better.

I have got the Gel Qualification from my college course. However I don't feel as if I deserve it. Ok yes I was mixing NSI & CND products together.
However I saved up and purchased the whole set up... but I still get problems. I am currently saving up to do a NSI course which is so far out from my area I have to catch a train and stay over night there.

But the thing is on my college course, they never taught us about using just on system, hey they didn't even teach us about apex placement and zones.
With only practically three weeks to learn gel extensions, gel overlays, and silk / fibre glass extensions, all packed into an hour class. This is why I feel I don't deserve it. My gel overlays are fab and never get a bother, it will forever be my extensions.

But I like to come here and get the advice from experienced techs, to help me solve my problems as the college couldn't really care.

But now that I have seen this post it has actually annoyed me.
So here is a "messer" who is brave enough to reply to this.
 
I get the odd complaint too, however i use them myself and i dont have any of the problems they refer to, also as an added measure i then asked my mum to try and see how she got on, my mum is the type who never wears gloves, heavy handed etc so i figured if they last on her thats good enough for me and she found them great, no problems. ( she has tried all my products) and so have i, so when a complaint arises i tend to look for other causes, rest assured its not the product and its not my technique, otherwise i would be having same problems, i think you are your own best critique.
 
Agree 100% with geeg.

When I first started out I tried and tested everything cheap, mixed systems etc and learnt very quickly it don't work.

I now choose a system and stick to it.

I think ppl seem to under estimate how picky insurance companies are I know of a nail tech who used all bar one part of the same system has a problem and nothing to do with the other product but they would not pay put because it states quite clearly to only use the whole system and nothing else.

I don't get why you would risk it and risk your reputation.

All we all ever go on about is get this industry regulated bit what's the point if corners are being cut?
 
geeg said:
This may sound like a rant, but really it is a genuine question.

Have YOU noticed it?

Why the heck is there so much ignorance amongst people who call themselves nail technicians ... such a reluctance on their part to get themselves educated ... and so much stupid messing about with different products that are in fact made to work together as a system and that in fact work better and last longer when used as a system? Why do ignorant people think they know better than the experts and the manufacturers?

I have to say, it beats me as to why people take such a short term view of their business success that they can mess about like they do. And then to top it off, they pass on their stupid ideas to others on this and other forums as if anyone who does do things correctly and by the book, is being conned or is naieve; like they are the ones who are uninformed! I don't get it.

Today in the salon, a client came in who has been to the UK and been to 3 different salons whilst there, to get her nails serviced. Do you know what she said? She said that she hadn't had one treatment for her nails anywhere that lasted as long as the work she has done by us. She said she'd been to three technicians for nail services ... No hand sanitiser used, no cuticle work, wrong UV lamp used with the system (she knows full well what the lamp should look like) lol, salons untidy and unclean. Minx applied to her toes with a cheap looking hairdryer that didn't last a week without peeling at the edges!! What is it with these people? They are not technicians they are just plain messers and she went to 3 different ones!! All the same. Is it that difficult to find a good operator with standards and a professionally run business? What are these messers thinking about (if they think at all)?

We are always reading moans here on the site about clients complaining about services not lasting etc ... Well our services last and complaints are practically non-existent ... Could it be that the :idea: should go on and that maybe those suffering constantly with problems and client moans should get their act together and get educated , use the correct products for their system and stop messing about?

Time someone said it! The 'messers' will read and not reply or learn anything from it, but Your thoughts on the questions posed would be appreciated.
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I completely agree with you.

I think the misconception that beauty/nails is "easy" misleads people into thinking that they can "have a go because they fancy it" kinda thing. As a result, I do feel that there are people who aren't doing things well and are giving the industy a bad name (and I say that as someone who is miles off from being the nail tech that I'd like to be).

I read an interesting article in an old Scratch magazine that said the education required to get into the industry should be more closely regulated and I agree with this.
 
The education given for new nail technicians definitely needs to be regulated! I am currently studying NVQ Level 2 in Nail Services. The course costs £1200 for a year, I go one full day a week. Working within this industry is something I have always wanted to do, I had my children young though and it's only now at 24 I'm able to get started. This course I'm on hasn't lived up to my expectations at all, my own natural nails are ruined, which geeg informed me on a previous post is not to be expected - I was told I should expect this. Students aren't watched closely enough and as a result don't worry about high standards. At the beginning if the course there was a lot of talk about health safety and hygiene, now 6 months in half of the classclean their tools before and after a client comes in. Tutor doesn't notice, so it carries on.
The tools, and products we are using are very cheap and hard to work with too, although my tutor gas said she uses CND out of college :/
Mobile technicians in my area have a badname as it is.

I have been thinking whether paying £1500 to do Level 3 nextyear is worth it. How much would I be looking at to study with CND? I also like the look of the NSI system.

An example of the wrong information given to training techs - I was informed that you did not have to use a full system to be insured. Also that eBay products work just as well.
I will not be taking this advice!
Thank god for Salon Geek :)
 
zowee said:
The education given for new nail technicians definitely needs to be regulated! I am currently studying NVQ Level 2 in Nail Services. The course costs £1200 for a year, I go one full day a week. Working within this industry is something I have always wanted to do, I had my children young though and it's only now at 24 I'm able to get started. This course I'm on hasn't lived up to my expectations at all, my own natural nails are ruined, which geeg informed me on a previous post is not to be expected - I was told I should expect this. Students aren't watched closely enough and as a result don't worry about high standards. At the beginning if the course there was a lot of talk about health safety and hygiene, now 6 months in half of the classclean their tools before and after a client comes in. Tutor doesn't notice, so it carries on.
The tools, and products we are using are very cheap and hard to work with too, although my tutor gas said she uses CND out of college :/
Mobile technicians in my area have a badname as it is.

I have been thinking whether paying £1500 to do Level 3 nextyear is worth it. How much would I be looking at to study with CND? I also like the look of the NSI system.

An example of the wrong information given to training techs - I was informed that you did not have to use a full system to be insured. Also that eBay products work just as well.
I will not be taking this advice!
Thank god for Salon Geek :)
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Aww zowee I feel so sorry for you! I honestly think you should scrap even attempting the level 3 and spend your money on some proper CND training. I'm lucky in that I had an amazing teacher for my nail course nvq I did. I am still planning on a conversion course with CND though to use the products and if I'd have known would have gone straight there. Hth x
 

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