Why are there so many 'messers' around?

[geeg]

This may sound like a rant, but really it is a genuine question.

Have YOU noticed it?

Why the heck is there so much ignorance amongst people who call themselves nail technicians ... such a reluctance on their part to get themselves educated ... and so much stupid messing about with different products that are in fact made to work together as a system and that in fact work better and last longer when used as a system? Why do ignorant people think they know better than the experts and the manufacturers?

I have to say, it beats me as to why people take such a short term view of their business success that they can mess about like they do. And then to top it off, they pass on their stupid ideas to others on this and other forums as if anyone who does do things correctly and by the book, is being conned or is naieve; like they are the ones who are uninformed! I don't get it.

Today in the salon, a client came in who has been to the UK and been to 3 different salons whilst there, to get her nails serviced. Do you know what she said? She said that she hadn't had one treatment for her nails anywhere that lasted as long as the work she has done by us. She said she'd been to three technicians for nail services ... No hand sanitiser used, no cuticle work, wrong UV lamp used with the system (she knows full well what the lamp should look like) lol, salons untidy and unclean. Minx applied to her toes with a cheap looking hairdryer that didn't last a week without peeling at the edges!! What is it with these people? They are not technicians they are just plain messers and she went to 3 different ones!! All the same. Is it that difficult to find a good operator with standards and a professionally run business? What are these messers thinking about (if they think at all)?

We are always reading moans here on the site about clients complaining about services not lasting etc ... Well our services last and complaints are practically non-existent ... Could it be that the :idea: should go on and that maybe those suffering constantly with problems and client moans should get their act together and get educated , use the correct products for their system and stop messing about?

Time someone said it! The 'messers' will read and not reply or learn anything from it, but Your thoughts on the questions posed would be appreciated.

 

[sachi]

I think it comes down to one word. CHEAP. people are too cheap to fork out the cash to get the right things they need! "$150 for a light? Why when i can get one for $50! I bet any light will work. CND/minx only say you have to buy their light to get more $ out of you!" $38 for a box of tips???? why when that box is $5? how much better can they really be??
and the list goes on.... oh well let them be fools and muck up! i will fix what they have neglected and put a smile on a new clients face and their cash in my pocket!

 

[WaxGirl]

gosh geeg - seems a little bit harsh there, people experiment and develop, isn't that how new products and treatments come about in the first place?

You can't blame them for experimenting and seeing what works well together nor with the current economic climate can they be blamed for trying to keep costs down.

I wouldn't want to see an industry of technicians who bow to the great industry and companies - that would sap all the creativity - we are individuals not clones.

As for your customers experience of UK salons - that's one customer you are basing your opinion on!

I agree that lack of hygiene is unacceptable.

But as I'm sure many of the other geeks will agree there are plenty of us who provide a professional service.

 

[geeg]

gosh geeg - seems a little bit harsh there, people experiment and develop, isn't that how new products and treatments come about in the first place?

You can't blame them for experimenting and seeing what works well together nor with the current economic climate can they be blamed for trying to keep costs down.

I wouldn't want to see an industry of technicians who bow to the great industry and companies - that would sap all the creativity - we are individuals not clones.

As for your customers experience of UK salons - that's one customer you are basing your opinion on!

I agree that lack of hygiene is unacceptable.

But as I'm sure many of the other geeks will agree there are plenty of us who provide a professional service.

No, I don't think it is harsh and it's not the first or only time that clients have come into the salon with similar stories when they have returned from the UK .. this one was just the one that prompted me to write the thread .. that and the alarming number of posts here on the salon geek from those that prove that many are messing about and taking risks with their products, their clients, and their business reputation because they don't know any better and not because they are being creative or innovative. Not clever business sense in this particular financial climate at all in fact, darned risky, I would say..

There are certain things one can do in the name of creativity and certain things that are warned against for darned good reasons. Is it creative to be unclean, is it experimenting when people use the wrong equipment is it creative to not sanitize hands before touching clients or an experiment not to manicure nails correctly before a service?

We have plenty of room for creativity and for trying things and experimenting sensibly and safely and I'm pretty sure you understand what I am talking about. I'm speaking about bad practice and bad workmanship not whether or not you can layer one brand of top coat over another brand of polish!

And yes, I do want to see technicians who bow to the great industry and companies who give out the important information on product safety and the why's and wherefores to back up that information that intelligent people can assimilate ... a little bowing and taking notice would go along way to get our industry respected instead of how it is thought of now. I cannot see how in any sense this would sap anyones creativity ... it certainly has never sapped mine, it has only made me a stronger and more capable and, I say humbly, the respected nail technician/educator that I am today.

 

[mrsm]

gosh geeg - seems a little bit harsh there, people experiment and develop, isn't that how new products and treatments come about in the first place?

You can't blame them for experimenting and seeing what works well together nor with the current economic climate can they be blamed for trying to keep costs down.

I wouldn't want to see an industry of technicians who bow to the great industry and companies - that would sap all the creativity - we are individuals not clones.

As for your customers experience of UK salons - that's one customer you are basing your opinion on!

I agree that lack of hygiene is unacceptable.

But as I'm sure many of the other geeks will agree there are plenty of us who provide a professional service.

I agree with your comments. I think geeg is being a little unfair lumping everyone into the one group. There areso many products out there every tech SHOULD experiment and find what products suit them best. And then where appropriate do the nescessary training. The other day I asked the question of "do I really need a shellac lamp" does this mean that I fit into geeg's category. I feel as someone who is full qualified, insured and enjoys to experiment with different products and has happy clients that this is post is unfair.

 

[gemsie1983]

It does all come down to money I believe. I hold my hand up and say when I first started I went for the cheaper option and scrimped on my education, but in the long run it ended up costing me more because I paid twice.

I genuinely think people believe that companies are out to con them and take all their money; therefore they are looking for what is perceived to be the best deal. This could be the cheaper lamp or the cheaper education anything to save those pennies.

I agree that you shouldn't take everything that a company is telling you as the gospel truth but if you are going to question it do plenty of research and don't just do something because it is cheaper!

 

[scottishjoy]

I agree with Geeg! I am not a chemist. I didn't spend years developing a system that works well together and is safe for the client so I'm not going to mess around with a system and risk potential damage to myself or my clients.

IMO mixing systems to save money could end up costing you more in the long run. What if it causes service breakdown and you have clients coming back asking for you to fix the problem? That's going to cost you way more than buying a whole system and sticking to it.

Can you really call shellac 'Shellac' if you are using products in that service that aren't shellac? Can you call gelish Gelish if you're using a different top coat/base coat?

It is unfortunate that there has been comments made about the cleanliness of salons. I've been into salons in scotland that are mockit! However I've also been to ones that are beautiful, clean and sanitary. Unfortunately its one of those things but businesses that don't provide a clean environment for their clients are going to lose them.

 

[geeg]

I agree with your comments. I think geeg is being a little unfair lumping everyone into the one group. There areso many products out there every tech SHOULD experiment and find what products suit them best. And then where appropriate do the nescessary training. The other day I asked the question of "do I really need a shellac lamp" does this mean that I fit into geeg's category. I feel as someone who is full qualified, insured and enjoys to experiment with different products and has happy clients that this is post is unfair.

This is just plain silly and it seems a deliberate attempt to not understand what I have said very clearly or to try to misrepresent what I said.

Commenting on the bit in bold type above .... I never even hinted that all technicians fall into this group and it is a group. As to finding which products one likes the best ... where do I indicate that this is a bad thing to do or that folks shouldn't do it?

Ah yes, training! Isn't the advocation of training what my thread is in fact all about? Wasn't your question an attempt to find out the facts? You only fit into the category I'm talking about if you didn't heed the advice you were given by the people who know the answers.

The points I make in this thread I think are clear to anyone who wants to read it and think about it.

If anyone wants to go off in a huff and imply that I am talking specifically about them then all I can say is, "If the cap fits then wear it" If the cap doesn't fit, then congratulations for having the smarts to continue your life long education in becoming the best you can be.

 

[noreenoconnor]

To be fair there is a lot of misleading information out there, I put in an order in yesterday for some nail supplies and one of the things I got was Monomer , at first they told me they didn't have my brand in stock (they later found one), and would I like another brand instead , I told her i'd rather not mix brands and she insisted they were all the same really. I think if i hadn't read Doug Schoon Book and read all the post that go on here I would have believed her as she is a "professional" who has been in the industry for years , and I am a newbie but thank god i knew better ...

I think when your just starting off with nails (like me!) there seems to be a mountain of information to learn all at once, and it can be easy to accept things that people say, even if there not right, because they might simply have more experience that you and your only new in the game so to speak

just my 2c worth :hug:

 

[Vetty]

I do not believe for one minute that Geeg is being harsh or unfair and for the record I have seen and heard the same stories from clients as she has..... Why are people so suspicious of big companies or manufacturers? Are Nail Techs really so close-minded they can't understand the years (and £/$'s) of research and development that go into creating products? Here's a fact that will shock you - CND need to make a profit! It's the only way they (as well as all the others) can develop new products and offer training to us.

I have found products outside of my core range that suit me - I love Young Nails Zebra files for de-bulking, I use Star Nails Quattro as a UV gel finish for L+P...... But I perform my L+P service as I was trained on my Foundation Course in 2004 - why? Because I believe I was taught that way for a reason. I get good consistent results so why would I want to 'try another powder with my liquid'?

I prepare myself to be not popular for this, but I believe that tech's that are always looking for 'cheap' are offering a lesser service and I most definitely believe they are not committed to their trade. I find the endless UV Lamp threads tiresome when people argue against facts (do a search, there are hundreds). Like any conspiracy theory, if you agree with them they believe they're more right, if you argue they believe you're lying and they're still right .

I am a mobile tech of 6 years operating at about 80% capacity all year round (fully booked about 50% of the year). But that must be luck on my part right?

 

[toffeepop]

I may be wrong here, so if I am, shoot me now lol. But when I read Geeg's post, I took it to mean 'experimenting' and 'messing' as in mixing different brands/chemicals to make a totally different system? Which is something that has been emphasised as a big no-no as each system has it's own chemical properties and by mixing them, you could cause some real bad results (not just perhaps less than perfect nails, but also health issues). It's like when using various kitchen cleaners - mixing 2 might cause toxic fumes or something. The science part is done by the professionals who will know what will/can interact badly. I know when I worked in a fine art sculpture business, we had to follow instructions to the letter to avoid any incidents and possible health hazards. Like I say, I may not have read it right, so apologise if I'm way off the mark here.

However, keeping a clean salon, and doing basic and essential housekeeping/hygeine parctices doesn't come down to money, it comes down to laziness, not caring about anyone's health including their own, and lack of pride in their salon. If money is an issue then why not make the savings here and buy cheaper products for cleaning - or buy 'How Clean Is Your House' book and make up natural cleaning products cheaply? Cleanliness doesn't need to cost the earth.

There may also be an element of cutting corners here though, in order to maximise profit by squeezing in extra customers? In which case this is likely to fail, as once the client shops around and finds a salon that does take pride, does the full treatment and gives great customer service, that client is likely to retuen again. I can understand techs trying to save money and make extra profits, but not if standards are slipping. I can also understand the client wanting a bargain while wanting a good service....isn't this something we all like? But to get the best, sometimes we do have to pay that little bit extra, and the same goes with salons. I actually recommended a friend to the hair salon I used to use (miss it so much!) and explained that yes, it might be a bit more expensive than she's used to, but what a service! I hope that once I'm up and running with all me services that someone says the same about me and my services; that is what I strive for, no matter job I am in!

Sorry, but if I walk into a salon/spa and it's not clean, I won't go further than asking for a price list and then walking away. I have my own health to think about, as well as what could I pass onto my kids? I once used to do the christmas hampers and went around collecting payments every week. This one friend's house was awful - Aggie and Kim would have refused to clean it!! Anyway, I went in, sat in the kitchen with my hand resting against the worktop waiting for her to get her purse. After she paid, I left. the next day, I had an itchy patch on my face, then my hand. I thought it was exczema so ignored it. Then my daughter had some awful pustules in her scalp. Health visitor said to use olive oil in her hair - it was just 'cradle cap'. I did and then next day her head and ear were dripping in green gunk. She had impetigo along with a couple of E Coli baterias!!! I had swabs taken of my own itchy hand and face - I also had impetigo and had passed it onto my daughter. Later that month, I found out that the 'friends' kids had impetigo before I had gone into that house. I was furious that she hadn't said anything. I felt dirty and guilty for passing it onto my daughter, but potentially I could have passed it onto everyone I came into contact with, as could have my daughter. You cannot see these germs, so if a salon is not clean......think of what you could catch from just the filth!!

 

[geeg]

I agree with Geeg! I am not a chemist. I didn't spend years developing a system that works well together and is safe for the client so I'm not going to mess around with a system and risk potential damage to myself or my clients.

IMO mixing systems to save money could end up costing you more in the long run. What if it causes service breakdown and you have clients coming back asking for you to fix the problem? That's going to cost you way more than buying a whole system and sticking to it.

Can you really call shellac 'Shellac' if you are using products in that service that aren't shellac? Can you call gelish Gelish if you're using a different top coat/base coat?

It is unfortunate that there has been comments made about the cleanliness of salons. I've been into salons in scotland that are mockit! However I've also been to ones that are beautiful, clean and sanitary. Unfortunately its one of those things but businesses that don't provide a clean environment for their clients are going to lose them.

Excellent post, Holly and you've got the point exactly.

What if you had come up with a fantastic new invention; paid out thousands to get that invention produced and patented and ready for market. You launch it and the world goes crazy over it ... but many, a big group actually, start adding bits to it or taking bits off it, adapting it with cheap bits and pieces and it really doesn't work so well anymore but they don't realise it because they never used it properly in the first place and are still telling people, oh yes it is your invention they are using!

YOU TELL THEM, PLEASE DON'T DO THAT TO MY INVENTION BECAUSE IT WONT WORK THAT WAY BUT THEY DON'T LISTEN.

Your invention starts to be talked about by many as not being so fasntastic anymore (BUT of course it isn't your invention any more because a large group has compromised it by changing it)!!! Then the group using their adapted invention of yours starts to loose business and their customers go elsewhere and find someone who IS using your invention properly and the job is so much better! The other people loose credibility and their business suffers and they loose money.

WHERE IS THE SENSE IN ALL THAT?

Anyone who innovates something wants it to work well for those who use it. They want you to be successful with it so they give you instructions on how to use it best. It's just plain stupid to ignore that advice.

 

[An*Gel]

I can see where geeg is coming from with this.

I don't think anyone minds a Nail Tech being creative and having a play around and experimenting... I'm sure we've all done this. (I'm talking about adding glitters to gels etc and using shellac over Minx not mixing systems)

What I just don't get, are the ones that get a system, like Shellac for example and don't bother to use the correct lamp, when they are told they need it.

I'm only using this as an example and I'm not having a go at anyone who has asked the question "do I need to use the Shellac lamp"... what annoys me are the ones that are given the answer, but still continue to use the wrong lamp and then go around moaning that the product is rubbish and chips etc when I know it doesn't.

I just feel lately that everyone seems to be jumping on the Nail Tech Band wagon, because it's "such an easy job"... well it's not!!

I've read countless threads where people want a cheap course and a cheap system and basically want everything now!!

I've spent years and years learning my craft (I'm still learning) and have spent thousands and thousands over the years, so I'm sure you can understand how frustrating it can be when others want the easy way out... what bothers me is when they give a brilliant product a bad name in the meantime.

 

[dellaznailz]

I am a mobile tech of 6 years operating at about 80% capacity all year round (fully booked about 50% of the year). But that must be luck on my part right?

Isn't it funny that the harder we work, the more great education we empower ourselves with and the better systems we use the luckier we get? :green:

Unfortunately geeg you will be , as always, preaching to the converted (and I'm NOT talking about CND conversions!) Those who understand or are willing to grow agree with you but those that don't understand won't or don't want to.

you say it like it is, don't ever change :hug:

 

[An*Gel]

YOU TELL THEM, PLEASE DON'T DO THAT TO MY INVENTION BECAUSE IT WONT WORK THAT WAY BUT THEY DON'T LISTEN.

Your invention starts to be talked about by many as not being so fasntastic anymore (BUT of course it isn't your invention any more because a large group has compromised it by changing it)!!! Then the group using their adapted invention of yours starts to loose business and their customers go elsewhere and find someone who IS using your invention properly and the job is so much better! The other people loose credibility and their business suffers and they loose money.

WHERE IS THE SENSE IN ALL THAT?

Anyone who innovates something wants it to work well for those who use it. They want you to be successful with it so they give you instructions on how to use it best. It's just plain stupid to ignore that advice.

This is exactly how I feel!!

I don't work for CND so won't profit from the sale of Shellac, but if enough dumbos out there don't use Shellac as a system, then it will give it a bad name and in turn this will have a negative affect on my business!!

 

[geeg]

I may be wrong here, so if I am, shoot me now lol. But when I read Geeg's post, I took it to mean 'experimenting' and 'messing' as in mixing different brands/chemicals to make a totally different system? Which is something that has been emphasised as a big no-no as each system has it's own chemical properties and by mixing them, you could cause some real bad results (not just perhaps less than perfect nails, but also health issues). It's like when using various kitchen cleaners - mixing 2 might cause toxic fumes or something. The science part is done by the professionals who will know what will/can interact badly. I know when I worked in a fine art sculpture business, we had to follow instructions to the letter to avoid any incidents and possible health hazards. Like I say, I may not have read it right, so apologise if I'm way off the mark here.

Congratulations ... I'm not going to shoot you .. you can live another day! :hug: You read my post and understood it perfectly.:hug:

 

[geeg]

This is exactly how I feel!!

I don't work for CND so won't profit from the sale of Shellac, but if enough dumbos out there don't use Shellac as a system, then it will give it a bad name and in turn this will have a negative affect on my business!!

FORTUNATELY MY DARLING, THERE ARE MANY MORE GOOD USERS OF SHELLAC THAN BAD ONES! THANK THE LORD!

But there are a few across all the brands that do mess about and don't or WON'T get the point! It frustrates all of us.

 

[The Geek]

Being cheap does not mean you are saving cents (see what I did there?).

I understand that people are cynical when a company gives directions just like your customers are cynical over your directions (using SolarOil, coming in for regular maintenance, wearing gloves, showing up on time, etc... ). For whatever reason, people just seem to think others are "out to get them". Kind of sad when you think about it.

But here is the good bit: You don't have to take ANYONES advice on intermixing systems or using specific lamps. You can actually do a small amount of (real) research to read, understand and educate yourself on the facts.

Anyone who believes that an x wattage lamp will cure a range of products is not educated enough to understand that wattage alone has minimal factor in determining if something will cure. Someone saying x monomer will work with any powder is also ignorant to some basic fundamental facts.

Ignorance isn't bad unless it is accompanied by apathy or cynicism toward fact. Its cool if you never understood that you shouldn't intermix systems. It isn't cool to refuse to listen to the reasoning of why you shouldn't AND refuse to do some investigation yourself.

So while I don't agree with Gigi's approach, I do ultimately agree with the sentiment. How can clients take us seriously when we can't even take ourselves seriously?

 

[Serenity Beauty]

I have been guilty of ignorance before! It does fall down to money a little, being so many companies desperate to make a buck that they will sell u anything (even if it is not compatable with ur product) makes us all a little paranoid that someone is out to get us and our hard earned cash! I have returned to nails after years of not doing them, and love love love the idea of shellac! It's too expensive for me right now, so I'm going to do what everyone should do (I'n stead of wasting their money on other crappy systems) and IM ACTUALLY GOING TO SAVE!!! Until I can buy shellac and all the proper CND stuff to go with it!
The reason why there are so many shockingly bad nail tech's and beauty therapists is because companies like fleabay (I love this new name for eBay ) are able to sell professional products, to non professionals! I am guilty of contemplating it! :-(
X

 

[harmit2]

As a Newby to this site (Feb) I've found it so useful, and even reading heated threads like this teaches you things you wouldn't learn elsewhere as it's all your experiences.

This is exactly why i've chosen to bite the bullet and become a nail technician (with all the training i can get my hands on!!!) after thinking about it for 10 years. I've been to several salons here in the UK over several years and i've only ever found ONE lady who did a great job. The others were unclean, didn't prep properly, cut my eponychuim so they bled, gave my acrylics which where painful, used 3 layers of Shellac colour, left my thumb wrinkled with Shellac etc...need i go on...

I'm damn sure I can do a better job of all these salons which i never end up going back to.

I'm a firm believer that when you've found someone who you're happy with you'll stick to them as you know you get the quality and hygeine you need. Thus, they are the ones which will survive.

Respect to the pros on here - hopefully I will be one someday