Absolutely Stumped "Greenies"

[MsAqua]

Hi all

I'm horrified and stumped. I have a newish client that presented to me with 3 greenies. I debulked all her nails, removed and treated the greenies with Scrubfresh. She came back for her 3 week appointment and the thumb had a greenie. I treated the thumb. She came back another 3 weeks later with yet another nail greenie! All the nails I have treated are fine, but the darn things won't give up!

I've never had anyone with a greenie except this lady!

She is coming back again with guess what.... yep, a greenie! That is 6 fingers!

What the heck is going on here? They are all new nails. I'm contemplating removing all the product, giving her Scrubfresh and Solar Oil to treat her hands with for 1 week and then reapply...

I cannot for the life of me understand why these nails are doing this?

Has anyone got a reason why this is happening. My hygiene is good, I don't re-use files, I clean all my equipment... What is happening and why is this lady getting more when NONE of my clients ever get one...?

Cheers

 

[MsAqua]

OK, in furtherance to my last. My client has just been and yes there was another greenie. The only thing I can assess is that there was a very slight lift at the corner of the nail and I assume that water has gone under and created a greenie.

In your professional opinion, due to her having a sharp C curve, could this be an on-going problem?

Just a bit deflated as mentioned previously, I have no other clients that have encountered this issue.

 

[Unique Nails09]

It sounds like an issue with her and not anything that you've done, some clients are more prone to greenies than others. I hate to say it but a few clients of mine over the years who have had greenies have not been too hot on keeping their hands clean! I'm sure this doesn't apply to your client. Does she wear polish on her nails quite a lot? As we know greenies love dark places.

Maybe advise her to see her doc about it, it seems strange how they keep cropping up, normally you only see then on one or two nails, this seems like an extreme case!

Don't panic, i'm sure its nothing you've done x

 

[NoLimitNails]

maybe a very very stupid question, but the file you have used to debulk did you use this on all the other fingers??? That could spread the infection...:hug:

 

[MsAqua]

Files: I was thinking that today before I saw her! I had used the same file, but you would think that the Scrub Fresh would kill any bacteria... That certainly could be a cause... Today I was extreme and I was pedantic with my treatment. I even Scrub Freshed several times before overlaying! haha

I gave a super critical look at her nails and make note she has lovely shaped nails with a strong C curve. Todays nail had a very slight lift on the side wall and I guess water has got under there. Is there any chance after 9 weeks that the old product is causing our problem? She had her nails done at one of the shopping centres and that's when this all started... Before this, she tells me she has never had an issue.

On a positive note, she absolutely loves the product (CND) and said today that usually she looses a few nails, but this product is strong and looks beautiful.

 

[NoLimitNails]

I would think scrubfresh would do the trick usually, but as said above, some people are more prone to greenies (not many though) so even if the smallest amount of dust was trapped it could be a problem IMO.

You say there's old product?? I'm no expert at greenies but if the greenies occur where the old product stops and new begins, then there might be a problem with old product. Based merely on guessing maybe the old product has a slight lift and then scrubfresh would have a hard time getting there.

It will be interesting to se if your efforts today has paid off, otherwise maybe a soak of and a new set (if more greenies appear) This is just based on my experience and maybe a more experienced tech could advise if this is the best way.

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

If anyone comes to you with a greenie you need to remove ALL traces of product from that nail, bin the file, and then thoroughly scrubfresh, and then apply new product.

 

[Unique Nails09]

Having a little think about this today (which is dangerous for me!) what does your client do for work - i.e if she was a hairdresser or cleaner you woul;d expect her hands to be in water a lot and lots of lovely warm moisture creeping in to any lifting areas - causing a Mr Greenie. Or perhaps is she out in her garden a lot messing about with soil and things - that could cause bacteria/dirt under the acrylic.

I wouldn't have thought you would have spread the bacteria from your file to one of her other fingers if indeed it is covered with acrylic, it wouldn't penetrate it and also the scrubfresh pretty much would have killed it off anyway.
x

 

[Velveteen]

G'day Aqua,

The reason why this is happening is because it sounds like your client has a serious infection.

"Green nails" usually signify a bacterial infection - normally a strain of pseudomonas - and, as you've illustrated, is highly contagious. It is a result of the skin being exposed to a bacterium that has managed to take hold. This could be due to prolonged exposure, poor immune system, whatever. It is not caused by nail enhancements or moisture per se but it does thrive in them. You cannot get rid of it and, if you're not careful, you or your other clients can end up with it too. And it will continue to come back until it is treated (by a doctor).

As Nail Technicians, we can't treat nails. Nor can we diagnose. So this client needs to attend a doctor so that she can be properly assessed.

Aside from this, "green nails" are considered to be a medical condition and, as such, the client needs to be medically tested her to see what she has (and if it is pseudomonas, what strain it is) and subsequently treated. In the State of Queensland, the Dept of Health asks those who come across this type of infection to report it (the Communicable Diseases Unit). I have done this in the past in consultation with the client's doctor.

So, as a Nail Technician, I cannot prescribe a treatment. What I can do is recommend that you direct your client to a doctor. Had I had this client, I would have removed the nails, advised the client about my concerns about the presence of a bacterial infection, explained the reasons why I could not perform an application and refer her to a GP. I would not have put new product on her.

I would then have gone through everything in my salon space with antibac.

Hope this helps.

 

[mum]

You've had some good advice on here Aqua in particular from Velveteen who has explained the Aus requirements. However, for UK Geeks I just want to clarify a few things.

The UK isn't so 'user friendly' for nail clients! Diagnosis of a bacterial infection that occurs under an overlay is very obvious and safe to deal with as long as the technician is experienced enough to be very confident in the diagnosis. Unfortunately, there is no point in sending the client to a doctor. (I want to stress that this comment is ONLY for this type of condition!) It is not necessary to report this to any agency either.

Contrary to what has been mentioned above, it is possible to spread the bacterium to other nails. Any file used on the affected nail MUST be binned.

A product such as Scrubfresh is good to use for this condition but it does not kill off the bacteria. Very few products do. What it does do, very efficiently, is to remove the environment that the bacteria thrive in (i.e. damp and warm) and so the bacteria cannot survive. The green colour left behind is a stain and will grow out.

Product should be removed, the file binned and the nail cleaned and dehydrated thoroughly. An overlay can the be reapplied safely. If there is any subsequent lifting then the bacteria will be back but this is nothing to do with the previous instance

 

[rachirv]

hi guys! sorry but im a bit new to extensions and havent done my course yet. forgive me for asking, but what is a greenie and does anybody have an image i can see, just curious xx

 

[lasach66]

Can anyone advise me as to whether a poor immune system (as stated above) would make someone more prone to greenies? x

 

[lasach66]

Hi, could anyone enlighten me please? Can a poor immune system make someone more prone to greenies as mentioned above? x

 

[sachi]

G'day Aqua,



"Green nails" usually signify a bacterial infection - normally a strain of pseudomonas - and, as you've illustrated, is highly contagious. It is a result of the skin being exposed to a bacterium that has managed to take hold. This could be due to prolonged exposure, poor immune system, whatever. It is not caused by nail enhancements or moisture per se but it does thrive in them. You cannot get rid of it and, if you're not careful, you or your other clients can end up with it too. And it will continue to come back until it is treated (by a doctor).

Here is a bit more on it as well as whet it can look like. Looks a nasty little guy for sure!
Mr.Green!

 

[MsAqua]

Thanks to all, extremely good advice. This has gone on far too long and clearly something that a doctor needs to treat. This lady had her nails done in the shopping centre, where it was quick, no appointment needed and now she is paying for it with her nails. I try to warn people and get them to tell their friends, but until the legislation changes this is what we can expect.

Thanks again

 

[Velveteen]

Diagnosis of a bacterial infection that occurs under an overlay is very obvious and safe to deal with as long as the technician is experienced enough to be very confident in the diagnosis. Unfortunately, there is no point in sending the client to a doctor.

Uh, no it's isn't, no it's not and you do so at your peril. We techies make the hand/nail beautiful. We don't diagnose or treat nail diseases and disorders. I can appreciate the differences in training modules between the two countries but the day a Nail Technician course includes training to become a medical practitioner is the day I move to England. :lick:

Aqua, did you ask your insurer what their stance was with this? They would have provided you with a definitive answer. In my view, legislation has nothing to do with this. We are taught extensively about nail conditions and how to look out for them in our RTO certificate courses. Laying the blame on other salons is just passing the buck. Bottom line is, you don't know how the client got it and we owe it to ourselves as professionals in industry to learn how to recognise alarm signals when we see them and act accordingly and within the law.

 

[sachi]

Uh, no it's isn't, no it's not and you do so at your peril. We techies make the hand/nail beautiful. We don't diagnose or treat nail diseases and disorders. I can appreciate the differences in training modules between the two countries but the day a Nail Technician course includes training to become a medical practitioner is the day I move to England. :lick:

Aqua, did you ask your insurer what their stance was with this? They would have provided you with a definitive answer. In my view, legislation has nothing to do with this. We are taught extensively about nail conditions and how to look out for them in our RTO certificate courses. Laying the blame on other salons is just passing the buck. Bottom line is, you don't know how the client got it and we owe it to ourselves as professionals in industry to learn how to recognise alarm signals when we see them and act accordingly and within the law.

That is why we all said for her to send her to the DR. so they can tell her what it is and how to treat it. This was to give the OP some info on what to look for.

 

[mum]

Uh, no it's isn't, no it's not and you do so at your peril. We techies make the hand/nail beautiful. We don't diagnose or treat nail diseases and disorders. I can appreciate the differences in training modules between the two countries but the day a Nail Technician course includes training to become a medical practitioner is the day I move to England.

:lick:

¨Uh, no it isn´t"!!!?

My post was aimed at UK technicians (as stated) and also experienced technicians with a bit of common sense! "Uh,no" indeed!

This type of infection is very obvious when it is associated with a corner of lifted overlay. This is what is most commonly seen in this country. There are clear and accepted guidelines as to how to deal with it. Anything more than this or displaying different characteristics just takes a bit of common sense to know that it may not be straight forward.

If being confident enough to deal with this situation rocks your boat maybe you should book your ticket!