Courses approved by The Guild and BABTAC

[nailstarlet]

Hi all, Just a quick question, as i am a little puzzled! I am new on the site and have been looking through loads of the threads. I was just wondering why there are courses that are approved by the guild and babtac, that have got bad reputations on here, surely if they were that bad and not up to scratch with their training the guild and babtac would not approve them. Hope someone can enlighten me! Thanks

 

[maguire]

Hi all, Just a quick question, as i am a little puzzled! I am new on the site and have been looking through loads of the threads. I was just wondering why there are courses that are approved by the guild and babtac, that have got bad reputations on here, surely if they were that bad and not up to scratch with their training the guild and babtac would not approve them. Hope someone can enlighten me! Thanks

Some people could have had the best training then go away with their certificates and do badly sets of nails, unless someone reports them I can't see how an insurance company would know if they are good techs or not, don't forget that insurance is there mainly to protect the customer. You could be a really bad driver but you can still get insurance. I know this might not have answered your question properley, but you could also phone or e-mail the insurance company's and they should be able to give you the proper answers.

 

[Cathie!]

I'm not totally au fait with how these things go and which is which in the scheme of accreditation for insurance purposes, but there are some associations you can pay for to have your training accredited by them...

and there is one and I can't remember which one, for which you don't have to pay but they will really ask questions to make sure the training is right and correct before they will give you accreditation.

It's a money making business and if you can pay x amount to have your training accredited without question or pay nothing but be questioned about what you are doing and have to make amendments etc before it can be accredited, which route would the fly by night people take?

Goodness knows what would happen in the event of an insurance claim with the paid for accreditation...I'm sure some of the onus would have to come down on them, with a clever lawyer.

 

[nailstarlet]

Hi Thank you for your replies, I have just been onto one of the websites that approves courses and i see that training establishments are able to get accreditied by them by paying the company to advertise. The requirements for this as far as i can see are all paper evidence based and they are not assesed visually on the quality of there course, Surely this isnt right as for all the accreditation companys could know, they could be teaching completly the wrong things and passing anyone. I just really dont understand this. I think i wil give the accreditation companys a ring and find out more, especially as I have my insurance with one of them!! Any more views would be greatly appreciated xx

 

[geeg]

Hi Thank you for your replies, I have just been onto one of the websites that approves courses and i see that training establishments are able to get accreditied by them by paying the company to advertise. The requirements for this as far as i can see are all paper evidence based and they are not assesed visually on the quality of there course, Surely this isnt right as for all the accreditation companys could know, they could be teaching completly the wrong things and passing anyone. I just really dont understand this. I think i wil give the accreditation companys a ring and find out more, especially as I have my insurance with one of them!! Any more views would be greatly appreciated xx

As I always say ... the good courses have a REPUTATION ... The training providers have a track record and won awards ... that would mean allot more to me than an accreditaion that anyone and their dog can get.

There is allot more information about education (thanks to this site) available to interested wannabe nail teks these days. It used to be the 'luck of the draw' but now peeps can ask for advise before attending courses that do not prepare them adequately to work in the profession of Nail Enhancement.

 

[nailstarlet]

I agree, but not everyone knows about this site, so imo companys that are accrediting training establishments should grade them, or something like that, as alot of peeps are going to waste so much money on bad courses. I know I did to begin with, after doing further training and looking through the threads on this site, I regret where I started off and the amount of money i feel I wasted. I want to help other people to be able to make the right decisions about training, hopefully the best place to start is with the accreditation companys, doubt i'll make much difference but am going to give it a go anyway!! :!:

 

[BABTAC Manager]

Hi all

Just a couple of quick clarifications.

Associations like ourselves and Guild make a small charge for accreditation to cover the time; it really does take quite a lot of time, and time from an emminently qualified person, to 'check out' a companies credentials and training ability.

If one just has a series of tick-boxes I suppose it could be done for free; but I'm not sure that's beneficial.

I'm not going to say that things don't go wrong, but if they do and we know about it, we investigate.

Hope that helps.

Regards

PHILIP SWINFORD
Marketing Services Manager
BABTAC

 

[geeg]

Hi all

Just a couple of quick clarifications.

Associations like ourselves and Guild make a small charge for accreditation to cover the time; it really does take quite a lot of time, and time from an emminently qualified person, to 'check out' a companies credentials and training ability.

If one just has a series of tick-boxes I suppose it could be done for free; but I'm not sure that's beneficial.

I'm not going to say that things don't go wrong, but if they do and we know about it, we investigate.

Hope that helps.

Regards

PHILIP SWINFORD
Marketing Services Manager
BABTAC

Thanks for that Philip, because there are many courses that are totally inadequate and people are being misled. NNice to know they can check these things out.

Just what are the criteria that courses have to adhere to to get acredited. What exactly is checked out??

 

[Kim Lawless]

I'm glad to see that this question has been asked. I think that a lot of people are under the impression that courses are awarded accreditation because these courses excel and because they've been singled out as being excellent by the governing body. Not so. One has to apply and pay for their course to be accredited and this isn't just a one off payment, it's the initital accreditation fee and then annually at around the £300 mark each year. Don't forget that if you want your course to be accredited by more than one body, you have to pay the initial fee and annual fee to each of them every year.

I've looked into have my courses accredited with several bodies but generally speaking, the information that they require is a break down of the course content and how the time is divided.

Then there's having your course endorsed by HABIA which is the same kind of process and financial outlay. I pretty much work to and train to HABIA guidleines anyway, so do I really need to pay out all this money each year just so that I can use the HABIA logo? With respect, shouldn't they be encouraging us all to follow their guidleines and using their logo free of charge to show that we follow their guidelines?

 

[Axiom]

I'm not a nail geek but this thread caught my eye and I'm also glad that this has been raised (sorry in advance for the long post, but I thought it might help shed some light on the process from a training provider's point of view).

I only have experience of The Guild, BABTAC and Habia's approval process, but I can say that it certainly hasn't been a case of just sticking a cheque in the post and waiting for referrals to come rolling in. So far, all three have required (as a minimum) evidence of the following:

• Lesson plans
• Course notes, manuals and handouts
• Assessment strategies mapped to learning outcomes
• My teaching qualification (EDIT: actually, I just double-checked and Habia didn't ask for this, although The Guild and BABTAC both did)
• Insurance
• Proof of my own beauty-related qualifications (EDIT: again, this wasn't asked for by Habia but they did request confirmation of my insurance)

Other requirements have included information relating to training facilities, information about salon hygiene procedures (e.g. methods of sterilisation), evidence of training reviews, etc. In fact, one of the above three providers gave me a ring to check something they weren't clear on, so at least I know they actually read the material I sent in!

Habia endorsement also required me to map my course to the relevant National Occupational Standards (i.e. the framework that forms the basis of national vocational qualifications such as NVQs and SVQs; these are not the same as their Code of Practice guidelines which are still voluntary within the industry, although I certainly agree with Kim that we should be working to them anyway). I also have a visit next month from one of their staff to check that my course is up to scratch. I don't know whether these requirements apply to all of the CPD courses they approve and I'm certainly not saying that NVQ learning outcomes are the be-all and end-all, but it gave me confidence that they don't just hand out endorsements willy-nilly.

Of course, all of the above means diddly squat if the tutor can't teach the material effectively or doesn't have the necessary skills or experience in the subject they are teaching, and this is really where I think the current system falls short.

From my own experience, I do think that the recognition process relating to the above three providers puts a level of checking in place that goes a long way towards ensuring students are getting education that will meet their needs in the workplace, but maybe it needs to go further? I'm all for that, although I dread to think how much that would cost (incidentally, I'm with Kim 100% on the cost of recognition - I can absolutely see why there needs to be a charge, and individually the charges are pretty reasonable as each of the above providers will promote and cover more than one course under their initial fee, but it quickly adds up and to get my training recognised by every insurance provider out there would probably put me out of business within a year!).

Sorry for the length - waffle over

Andy x

 

[The Guild]

Hi,

As Philip from BABTAC stated, organisations like his and the Guild do charge an accreditation fee. This is because we request the full details of every course that a school wants to have accredited. We must then go through each of these courses in detail, which can take many hours and a lot of effort.

One of the reasons we accredit courses, and why it is often necessary to be accredited with different bodies, is for insurance purposes. With the number of private training schools rapidly increasing, our members are producing certificates from a whole host of training providers. Without the accreditation process we would never know who these schools are and what level of training they offer, making it very difficult to insure these qualifications.

We take the accreditation process very seriously, and if anyone does have any complaints about one of our accredited schools then we want to hear about it. All complaints will be investigated and we do reserve the right to withdraw accreditation where it is deemed necessary.

Hope that clears things up a bit, and if anyone has any questions about the accreditation process, please feel free to get in touch.

 

[BABTAC Manager]

Addendum folks

We don't charge an ongoing annual fee for accreditation (I didn't know that anyone did!), because we feel that would be too much like a 'bribe to stay on the books'. Once you're accreditted with BABTAC, that's it.

Also - once you've had the first course accredited, which costs £195, any further courses are only £45 each (because we'd have done a lot of the hard work).

Like our friends at Guild we will always investigate any complaints andreserve the right to withdraw accreditation. And we do carryourregularreviews and the occasional spot-check.

It's all a bit more complex and time-consuming than filling in a form!

Regards

PHILIP SWINFORD
Marketing Services Manager
BABTAC

 

[bombini]

Just out of interest what are the teaching qualifications that are required for these courses ?

It seems to me that every man & his dog can train someone for something these days without experience or have attended a training course (this isn't aimed at anyone btw!)

I know at colleges the tutors have to have several years of experience and then need a teaching qualification so if a company employed me as a trainer for a treatment i only had minimal experience in eg, Eyelash Perming then they re-trained me train in their techniques would I actually be qualified to teach others ?? In my eyes the answer would be no but it seems that some companies are actually doing this.

Sorry if I haven't explained this very well !

 

[The Guild]

Just out of interest what are the teaching qualifications that are required for these courses ?

It seems to me that every man & his dog can train someone for something these days without experience or have attended a training course (this isn't aimed at anyone btw!)

I know at colleges the tutors have to have several years of experience and then need a teaching qualification so if a company employed me as a trainer for a treatment i only had minimal experience in eg, Eyelash Perming then they re-trained me train in their techniques would I actually be qualified to teach others ?? In my eyes the answer would be no but it seems that some companies are actually doing this.

Sorry if I haven't explained this very well !

We do ask for both qualifications in the subject being offered as well as a relevant teaching qualification such as a City & Guilds award, or an NVQ Assessors award. We request this for every tutor who will be teaching the accredited courses.

 

[geeg]

We do ask for both qualifications in the subject being offered as well as a relevant teaching qualification such as a City & Guilds award, or an NVQ Assessors award. We request this for every tutor who will be teaching the accredited courses.

And what is to stop these establishments after accreditation from hiring someone who does not have these awards or whom you have not checked out and continuing to teach with your accreditation? Things can change from year to year and if the accreditation is ongoing from year to year how do you do a quality check?

We have had many complaints here on the Geek site regarding courses that are so-called accredited, where the teaching has proved to be abysmal!!
How do you do on-going checks on these places ... do you get your accredited places to ask students to fill in a feedback form of any kind?

 

[The Guild]

And what is to stop these establishments after accreditation from hiring someone who does not have these awards or whom you have not checked out and continuing to teach with your accreditation? Things can change from year to year and if the accreditation is ongoing from year to year how do you do a quality check?

We have had many complaints here on the Geek site regarding courses that are so-called accredited, where the teaching has proved to be abysmal!!
How do you do on-going checks on these places ... do you get your accredited places to ask students to fill in a feedback form of any kind?

Hi Gigi,

As this is an ongoing process we have implemented a review system when each school is due for renewal where we review details such as this.

Of course, the best way of finding out more about a school is through feedback from students who have actually been there. If anyone has a complaint we really want to know about it, because our accreditation can be withdrawn if we deem it necessary.

 

[geeg]

Hi Gigi,

As this is an ongoing process we have implemented a review system when each school is due for renewal where we review details such as this.

Of course, the best way of finding out more about a school is through feedback from students who have actually been there. If anyone has a complaint we really want to know about it, because our accreditation can be withdrawn if we deem it necessary.

Maybe it would be a great idea for all students to be handed a valuation sheet from the Guild that they can fill out and send on to the Guild at the end of their course? Or an email address where they can fill in an evaluation sheet on line? This would be very good feedback for you I think.

 

[nailstarlet]

Maybe it would be a great idea for all students to be handed a valuation sheet from the Guild that they can fill out and send on to the Guild at the end of their course? Or an email address where they can fill in an evaluation sheet on line? This would be very good feedback for you I think.

I agree with regards to student feedback! i think all courses that are accreditied by any organisation should have feedback from all the students that attend courses, as it is all well and good the course being checked out prior to accrediting them but any of them can cut corners etc and not give adequate training after they have been acrreditied! I think ALL students should be given the chance to give feedback to the accrediting organisations, as I have personally been very dissapointed with a course i did awhile ago now, but felt that i couldn't complain (a mixture of being a bit naive then and the fact that It was accreditied by a big organisation, and i felt very daunted by the prospect of complaining) However I learnt my lesson from that in more ways that one, and I feel this needs to addressed so other people don't get caught by the rougues, and waste money on training. To the accrediting organsations this really needs to be addressed as so many people are getting riped off and are very dissapointed with the training they are recieving.

 

[The Guild]

Maybe it would be a great idea for all students to be handed a valuation sheet from the Guild that they can fill out and send on to the Guild at the end of their course? Or an email address where they can fill in an evaluation sheet on line? This would be very good feedback for you I think.

This is actually something that we are looking to implement. At the moment it is just a case of finding the most practical way of doing this.

 

[geeg]

Hi, well can we also give you feed back on some excellent small private courses too ?
as they cannot really afford Habia and Guild fees but are just as good.

and if they get a lot of good feed back can they go on a good recommendation list ?

This would fab as some of the lone extremely experienced highly skilled trainers could get some recognition too and not just larger schools and training colleges.

.

I think this would be highly unfair to the education providers who do meet all the Guild criteria.

Most stand alone independent trainers do not! If they are that serious about their teaching professsion then I'm sure they will get where they want to be in the end.