Going back to the freedom of being a traveller

[jacquelineanna]

I do agree but I meant it genuinely. I hope I didn't offend. It surprises me that a lot of people don't know that term is offensive and I think a lot of people are offended by it. I do think it's important, and pertinent given the nature of the thread which touches on racism, misunderstanding and labelling between cultures xx

Hey Pixie, you certainly didn't offend me :hug:

Lots of people can be offended by lots of things - if you look hard enough you can find find an insult and be offended by the most innocuous sentiment.

How we deal with it is what makes the difference.

No single 'label' for the want of a better word is more offensive than any other. So talking in a derogatory manner about blondes girls being thick and stupid, or deriding people with ginger hair, or calling someone overweight a 'fat cow' - these things are all incorrect. But we need to learn to take offence when it is clearly offensive and be a little more gracious if we can see that it has been said without malice.

Peace and Respect xxx

 

[JenBella]

I'm not much of a tv watcher but caught some of those Channel 4 shows. I found it really interesting the differences between Irish and English travellers as I didn't know there would be that difference.
Travellers in Ireland really don't have a good reputation, obviously there's a bad element in every community but some of the things that have gone on even local to me would really make it hard to see any good in the community. Obviously I know that it's wrong to blanket all travellers the same but I guess such a closed community it's hard to get to know their culture etc and when your only experiences have been bad ones I do think that the C4 shows actually help educate people. They have certainly given me another insight into traveller culture and opened my mind a lot whereas before I would of been really closed off to any idea of there being anything good.
I think in some ways it's a very free way of life which must be great, also having such a close support network. I can't imagine not being allowed to have the freedom of choice regarding education, marriage etc which is what was shown on Thelma's programme. But then that's not limited to the travelling community.
Our family had a particularly frightening incident which is probably what really made me feel that illwill along with other incidents through the years.
I really welcome getting to know other cultures and learning about them, after all we are all the same at end of the day.
I do think you should be proud of where you come from and I wish you all the luck in the world x

 

[PixieBeauty]

I agree with you Pixiebeauty but it is so difficult to know what the 'correct' thing is to say, Unfortunately we do sometimes have to describe someone by the colour of their skin or ethnic origin. I find myself getting into a right muddle when trying to educate my children about the right way to say things and end up going back to my hairdressing training and categorizing as 'afro-carribean' or 'asian' which I know isn't correct but help us out?? I would absolutely hate to offend anyone honestly, but i'm quite sure most would describe me as short, fat and white.

I agree about not knowing what offends & what doesn't, I'm often worried about using phrases but basically using something descriptive is ok, until someone takes offence to it. Eg Negro was a descriptive term derived from the colour black, and as the word changed into we all know what, it had offensive/racist connotations attached. That's when a word becomes un-PC.

With reference to using words like Asian, Afro-Caribbean etc to my knowledge the are not offensive UNLESS they are misused (eg calling someone Asian when they are not!) that's offensive as it's ignorant. Calling someone a Pakistani is not offensive, but the shortened version of the word is as it has become used as a slang and in a derogatory way for such a long time.

The word coloured has specific connotations and was used as a non-offensive term, as it was descriptive it was fine to use (ie accepted among society as non-offensive). My granny's generation often wrinkle their nose & say "Don't be daft. I'm not being racist, they ARE coloured!"

The reason it is now considered to be non-PC, and sometimes considered racist (ie meaning offence) is because it is casting all 'non-white' people into one group - either you're white, or you're not. It is not a term that describes any type of person, as non-white is not a type, colour, creed or whatever. It is no form of grouping whatsoever. It belies some importance or worth in noting those that are white, or not. It takes no time or effort to identify or care about the person in question other than their non-white characteristics. It also implies the skin tone of white/Caucasian people is somehow normal where all others are 'coloured'. Why are 'they' the ones that are 'coloured' and not us? Why is white not a colour? It is as much a colour as black, brown, yellow, or orange/red skin tones.

I hope I don't sound preachy - although I'm sure I do - I'm not very good at explaining it in words :/

 

[jacquelineanna]

I agree about not knowing what offends & what doesn't, I'm often worried about using phrases but basically using something descriptive is ok, until someone takes offence to it. Eg Negro was a descriptive term derived from the colour black, and as the word changed into we all know what, it had offensive/racist connotations attached. That's when a word becomes un-PC.

With reference to using words like Asian, Afro-Caribbean etc to my knowledge the are not offensive UNLESS they are misused (eg calling someone Asian when they are not!) that's offensive as it's ignorant. Calling someone a Pakistani is not offensive, but the shortened version of the word is as it has become used as a slang and in a derogatory way for such a long time.

The word coloured has specific connotations and was used as a non-offensive term, as it was descriptive it was fine to use (ie accepted among society as non-offensive). My granny's generation often wrinkle their nose & say "Don't be daft. I'm not being racist, they ARE coloured!"

The reason it is now considered to be non-PC, and sometimes considered racist (ie meaning offence) is because it is casting all 'non-white' people into one group - either you're white, or you're not. It is not a term that describes any type of person, as non-white is not a type, colour, creed or whatever. It is no form of grouping whatsoever. It belies some importance or worth in noting those that are white, or not. It takes no time or effort to identify or care about the person in question other than their non-white characteristics. It also implies the skin tone of white/Caucasian people is somehow normal where all others are 'coloured'. Why are 'they' the ones that are 'coloured' and not us? Why is white not a colour? It is as much a colour as black, brown, yellow, or orange/red skin tones.

I hope I don't sound preachy - although I'm sure I do - I'm not very good at explaining it in words :/

You explained it beautifully :wink2:

 

[PixieBeauty]

I'm not much of a tv watcher but caught some of those Channel 4 shows. I found it really interesting the differences between Irish and English travellers as I didn't know there would be that difference.
Travellers in Ireland really don't have a good reputation, obviously there's a bad element in every community but some of the things that have gone on even local to me would really make it hard to see any good in the community. Obviously I know that it's wrong to blanket all travellers the same but I guess such a closed community it's hard to get to know their culture etc and when your only experiences have been bad ones I do think that the C4 shows actually help educate people. They have certainly given me another insight into traveller culture and opened my mind a lot whereas before I would of been really closed off to any idea of there being anything good.
I think in some ways it's a very free way of life which must be great, also having such a close support network. I can't imagine not being allowed to have the freedom of choice regarding education, marriage etc which is what was shown on Thelma's programme. But then that's not limited to the travelling community.
Our family had a particularly frightening incident which is probably what really made me feel that illwill along with other incidents through the years.
I really welcome getting to know other cultures and learning about them, after all we are all the same at end of the day.
I do think you should be proud of where you come from and I wish you all the luck in the world x

Totally agree. I'll admit now I had no idea whatsoever about the different types of travellers (Enlgish & Irish) but you make a very good point perhaps that's down to a fairly closed community as you said.

I did notice a lot of the girls had fabulous nails though! So I wondered if they frequented 'country' salons or only visited traveller techs or what? I was trying to work out which it would be as I couldn't really tell from the programme how much the girls kept themselves away from town or mainstream society, or whether enough traveller women were working to provide these services.

 

[JenBella]

I saw a few of the girls in salons a few times, that's across a few of those programmes that have been on.
The English travellers seem to be a lot more reserved and dress way more modestly than the Irish travellers. I found it funny in the gypsy wedding show where the girls were dressed very very provocatively and dancing the same, that they wouldn't even kiss a boy and are extremely reserved in that area. It just didn't add up to see such young girls with their bits hanging out and giving lap dancers a run for their money being shocked at the idea of having a boyfriend.
It's such a different way of living, and it's a pity the amount of bad feeling there is.

 

[Martin Duffy]

I thought the show muddied the waters a little by not really explaining that although both nomadic, traveller's aren't really gypsies as the term gypsy properly only applies to the Romany. Trying to lump lots of different cultures together as though they were one is never that helpful.

 

[Crystal colleen]

Hey good luck I'm an English traveller and proud of it.I just told my new boss I'm a traveller lol she was shocked I didn't mention it and when I said I didn't mention it because I may not have got the job she laughed and said it wouldn't have made a difference.when I said don't ask me to Tarmac your drive or cut down your tree coz I don't know how to do that she laughed.

My mum isn't a traveller but my dad is.We have always lived in a house but my dad lived in a cart like the old horse ones then a caravan then a house.

People can judge but I'm not your typical traveller either I went to school went to college always had jobs.

I don't care what people think.Neither should you.xxx

 

[Mobile Manicure]

I agree about not knowing what offends & what doesn't, I'm often worried about using phrases but basically using something descriptive is ok, until someone takes offence to it. Eg Negro was a descriptive term derived from the colour black, and as the word changed into we all know what, it had offensive/racist connotations attached. That's when a word becomes un-PC.

With reference to using words like Asian, Afro-Caribbean etc to my knowledge the are not offensive UNLESS they are misused (eg calling someone Asian when they are not!) that's offensive as it's ignorant. Calling someone a Pakistani is not offensive, but the shortened version of the word is as it has become used as a slang and in a derogatory way for such a long time.

The word coloured has specific connotations and was used as a non-offensive term, as it was descriptive it was fine to use (ie accepted among society as non-offensive). My granny's generation often wrinkle their nose & say "Don't be daft. I'm not being racist, they ARE coloured!"

The reason it is now considered to be non-PC, and sometimes considered racist (ie meaning offence) is because it is casting all 'non-white' people into one group - either you're white, or you're not. It is not a term that describes any type of person, as non-white is not a type, colour, creed or whatever. It is no form of grouping whatsoever. It belies some importance or worth in noting those that are white, or not. It takes no time or effort to identify or care about the person in question other than their non-white characteristics. It also implies the skin tone of white/Caucasian people is somehow normal where all others are 'coloured'. Why are 'they' the ones that are 'coloured' and not us? Why is white not a colour? It is as much a colour as black, brown, yellow, or orange/red skin tones.

I hope I don't sound preachy - although I'm sure I do - I'm not very good at explaining it in words :/

Oh please help me out here. I have a friend from South Africa who is a mum at my children's school. How do I describe her to another mum? Can I call her the lady with long straight black hair and dark skin or is that offensive? She calls herself black so I'm confused. if I leave out the colour of her skin in the description people will assume she is white which can be difficult if someone needs to find her to give her a birthday invitation or something.

I also have a client who refers to herself as black and we have a new couple moving in on our road who we've all seen and they were described by my neighbour as "the young couple, he's White and she's black" to differentiate between all the other people we've seen viewing the house. No offence was intended by using these words. yes, we are a load of curtain twitchers on our cul de sac!

 

[PixieBeauty]

Oh please help me out here. I have a friend from South Africa who is a mum at my children's school. How do I describe her to another mum? Can I call her the lady with long straight black hair and dark skin or is that offensive? She calls herself black so I'm confused. if I leave out the colour of her skin in the description people will assume she is white which can be difficult if someone needs to find her to give her a birthday invitation or something.

I also have a client who refers to herself as black and we have a new couple moving in on our road who we've all seen and they were described by my neighbour as "the young couple, he's White and she's black" to differentiate between all the other people we've seen viewing the house. No offence was intended by using these words. yes, we are a load of curtain twitchers on our cul de sac!

The term black is fine, especially if someone refers to themselves as that! Or you could refer to her as the South
African lady if you're more comfortable with that but black is absolutely PC if a person calls themselves that. HTHs Xxx

 

[gr8nailz]

I'm excited for you! It sounds as if it's the life you want for yourself and your family so it's what you should do. It makes you happy and happiness is contagious.

I'd be lying if I told you that your lifestyle isn't fascinating to the American people. The U.S. has only gotten a peek into the Irish traveler lifestyle and not the English traveler lifestyle.

Regardless, the spirit of this lifestyle implies...well...the very essence of freedom.

I wish you happiness.

 

[dandelionpoppy]

I've been away and haven't yet read all the posts. I will do later.

I had the pleasure and privilege of working with the Travellers for 20 years, Gypsy/Romas and Irish. I met some lovely, funny, supportive and loyal people.
For the record I never had a single thing stolen, apart from 1 family the children were spotless and the homes I visited put mine to shame.

Good luck to you. Travel well.

 

[Pika]

Nothing wrong with gypsies I'd be more ashamed of the scrounging scrotes who don't benefit this country at all who still have the audacity to moan about what they are and are not entitled to! Is it ok to tar all gypsies with the same brush just because the minority have done wrong? So all kids that sit up the park are up to no good? And all foreigners in this country are bad just because some do fleece our system? I think not. Too much prejudice in this world, doesn't do anyone any good.
And to the op, I have Romany gypsy roots, my great granddad and grandad used to breed shire horses. I don't necessarily shout about it for the fact that some people automatically get funny about it but I certainly defend gypsies if anyone has the guts to slate them in front of me

 

[FuzzBall]

Oh my... I am so amazed at how loving your replies habe been!!

English travellers are much more common then you think, we dont dress inappropriatly or let our chavvys dance like a tart.

This way of life is how I should be, Im 19 and living in a flat you where none your family or cousins or mummy is is scary.

 

[Crystal colleen]

Oh my... I am so amazed at how loving your replies habe been!!

English travellers are much more common then you think, we dont dress inappropriatly or let our chavvys dance like a tart.

This way of life is how I should be, Im 19 and living in a flat you where none your family or cousins or mummy is is scary.

Hello fellow gypsie friend.I'm excited for you I hope you enjoy your move and never feel ashamed of who you are I'm not.:hug:XX

Keep us updated x

 

[gr8nailz]

There's a show here in the U.S. on the National Geographic Channel about a Romani Gypsy family living and working in New York City. It's a clash between old and new traditions, cultures and values as three generations try to make their way between old customs and the world in which they live.

The gypsy culture in these programs has never been portrayed as one of thievery. It's always been portrayed as one steeped in tradition, custom and ritual.

 

[FuzzBall]

I remeber growing up my mummy having big things about what washing was done with what, dogs not allowed inside, how crocery is washed and dried and stored.

My mummy and my husbands mummy grew up together both in bow topped wagons and still have them in there yards. They are so beautifull and intricatky worked on.

 

[lila22]

Oh my... I am so amazed at how loving your replies habe been!!

English travellers are much more common then you think, we dont dress inappropriatly or let our chavvys dance like a tart.

This way of life is how I should be, Im 19 and living in a flat you where none your family or cousins or mummy is is scary.

Ahh I hope now you will never give it a second thought, be proud
If we all judged on what we see on the telly I'd be snookered 😱 two words "Geordie shore!" x x

 

[FuzzBall]

Ahh I hope now you will never give it a second thought, be proud
If we all judged on what we see in the telly I'd be snookered 😱 two words "Geordie shore!" x x

Im not one to judge! But the woman on there do look like a scandal.

 

[skankinchar]

I'm loving how non judgemental this thread is. If only real life was like geeking! It's been brilliant being able to get an insight into a different culture
I'm a little jealous, I'd love a family that were that close x

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