Question for the chemistry/product people!

[brittone05]

So - I have been having a rather "heated" discussion with my husband and friends for 2 bloomin days!

My hubby is a mechanic and a vehicle painter and has been for a long time and he says that the monomer smell reminds him of the paint he used to use for cars etc.

Now, whilst that may seem a million miles away for most nail techs - I know the smell of cellulose ( 2 pack ) paint also and can't personally see a resemblance other than both should be used in well ventilated areas and such.

So - cellulose paint is now banned from use in the UK as one of the epoxy resin particles in it was bad for you. I can't find the correct name any more but think it may be "xylene".

This isn't a listed ingredient of any monomer I have read about and I can't find anything that says that acrylic contains any epoxy resin ingredients.

Can anyone please please help to put this debate to rest for me

Does monomer contain any similar compounds to epoxy?

 

[geeg]

So - I have been having a rather "heated" discussion with my husband and friends for 2 bloomin days!

My hubby is a mechanic and a vehicle painter and has been for a long time and he says that the monomer smell reminds him of the paint he used to use for cars etc.

Now, whilst that may seem a million miles away for most nail techs - I know the smell of cellulose ( 2 pack ) paint also and can't personally see a resemblance other than both should be used in well ventilated areas and such.

So - cellulose paint is now banned from use in the UK as one of the epoxy resin particles in it was bad for you. I can't find the correct name any more but think it may be "xylene".

This isn't a listed ingredient of any monomer I have read about and I can't find anything that says that acrylic contains any epoxy resin ingredients.

Can anyone please please help to put this debate to rest for me

Does monomer contain any similar compounds to epoxy?

Part of every nail tech's arsenal should be a copy of Nail Structure & Product Chemistry by Doug Schoon. Also where are your MSDS??? Ingredients are listed there.

Monomer has been deemed by the 'authorities' as safe to use for the art of nail enhancement for more than 30 years now. Follow company guidelines for use (ie correct ventilation) etc. The tiny amount of monomer with we nail techs work poses no risk to health. Follow COSHH guidelines and you needn't concern yourself.

 

[mum]

Also, cars are spray painted. Deliberately putting vast quantities of vapour into the atmosphere is a very different 'ball game' from using a few mml in a (hopefully covered) dappen dish

 

[brittone05]

Thanks Geeg, Mum

I wasn't implying in any way that nail enhancement products contained the banned substance Merely enquiring if the family of chemicals is in any way similar or cross referenced with one another

I am still only preparing to train but you will be happy to know that I already have Doug's and Geeg's books on order from our local bookshop so lots of reading ahead for me

 

[Ruth Mills]

Thanks Geeg, Mum

I wasn't implying in any way that nail enhancement products contained the banned substance Merely enquiring if the family of chemicals is in any way similar or cross referenced with one another

I am still only preparing to train but you will be happy to know that I already have Doug's and Geeg's books on order from our local bookshop so lots of reading ahead for me

Actually, xylene is chemically very similar to toluene, which used to be present as a solvent in lots of nail polish formulations! It might still be in some; however there's a move in the industry towards the "3-Free" products which were mentioned on a thread on here a week or so ago, where such nail polish formulae did not contain toluene, formaldehyde, or dibutyl phthalate (DBP) - all three of which, although perfectly safe in the concentrations found in nail polish formulae, can have health implications when people are exposed to them in larger quantities.

 

[geeg]

Actually, xylene is chemically very similar to toluene, which used to be present as a solvent in lots of nail polish formulations! It might still be in some; however there's a move in the industry towards the "3-Free" products which were mentioned on a thread on here a week or so ago, where such nail polish formulae did not contain toluene, formaldehyde, or dibutyl phthalate (DBP) - all of which can have health implications.

Actually in nail polish even with all the chemicals you mention there are NO risks of health problems.

The only reason that some nail companies have decided to go 3 free is because of the pressure from consumer groups (not because the chemicals are dangerous in nail polish .. they are not).

 

[brittone05]

Thanks Ruth I know that the nail industry strives to ensure the health of the techs and clients is paramount and I know that, in such small volumes, the chemicals used are in no way hazardous to health - just that hubby knows the smell so well and I wanted to confirm or dispel his idea that the odour was from something he knew.

I beleive toluene was also within the mix of cellulose paints - it is only 1 compound within the whole thing though that was banned for general use and qualified specialist commercial painters are still legally allowed to use cellulose paints, only small paint shops nad the general public who aren't.

 

[Ruth Mills]

Thanks Ruth I know that the nail industry strives to ensure the health of the techs and clients is paramount and I know that, in such small volumes, the chemicals used are in no way hazardous to health - just that hubby knows the smell so well and I wanted to confirm or dispel his idea that the odour was from something he knew.

I beleive toluene was also within the mix of cellulose paints - it is only 1 compound within the whole thing though that was banned for general use and qualified specialist commercial painters are still legally allowed to use cellulose paints, only small paint shops nad the general public who aren't.

Actually the smell of acrylic monomer is most likely due to ethyl methacrylate (EMA). It's quite a different smell compared with toluene to my nose, but then I spent hours in the organic chemistry lab at uni doing practicals where we sloshed around all the different solvents like nobody's business!

 

[geeg]

It is definitely the esters from the EMA that he is smelling in nail monomer.

 

[brittone05]

I have explained to him about the difference in smell from EMA and MMA and have told him that tomorrow, he is going on a guided tour of nail salons in our area to sniff the smell and then he will know that it is perfectly normal.

He has said that when I start training, he will buy me a table with an extracor built in to minimise the smell although my room already has ventilation to a degree in there

 

[geeg]

I have explained to him about the difference in smell from EMA and MMA and have told him that tomorrow, he is going on a guided tour of nail salons in our area to sniff the smell and then he will know that it is perfectly normal.

He has said that when I start training, he will buy me a table with an extracor built in to minimise the smell although my room already has ventilation to a degree in there

You don't have to make smell .. there are many ways to minimise it (although ventilation is always recommended for dust more than vapours but is good for both). You only ever have a thimble full on your desk at any one time. Still I'm glad he is thinking of you and your health .. this is a good thing.:hug:

PS Actually there isn't really allot of difference in the actual smells of MMA or EMA ... there are a few low odour monomers about like CND as well.

 

[brittone05]

He is very good my hubby :hug:

I have bought some little dishes with lids to keep smells out the way when I am doing other things also

Can't wait for my books to come now - am on a reading binge this week hehe

 

[Lady_Stardust]

Hi, your thread caught my eye as you mentioned that cellulose paint is banned from public use. I found this strange and tried HSE to find info to back this up and couldn't find anything unless I'm being dumb lol. :lol:
I buy cellulose 2pk paint all the time to respray cars at home and can get hold of it extremly easy....you can order custom colours in halfords!! I just wondered where you got this information from? It's a bit worring to me as my hobby is restoring cars and therefore paint them an awful lot! :cry:

 

[brittone05]

It was banned in 2007 hun - will try to dig up links. It is still legal for use for "commercial" vehicles though.

Everything is supposed to be water based now as a rule though - will ask hubby when he is up in the mornin for you

EDIT - I actually stand very corrected and hubby will be getting an ear bashing from me as I have just read via a LR forum that celly was given an indefinite reprieve although I will have to fully check into the truth behind that claim also Feel a numpty now though lol