Wages Problems - Greedy Owners

[weegirl]

Hi, I have cut an pasted my reply to another thread in the Hair section. I have done so as I think it is an important debate that needs taken seriously. I know it is a bit of a rant, but an important rant all the same. You can pick up the start of the debate on the "why it's hard to recruit" thread.
http://www.salongeek.com/biz-geek/55515-why-its-hard-recruit.html

"Hi, as a former Union rep, I can say that in my experience, the majority of blame can be put at the feet of salon owners, keeping the profits and paying staff a pittance because they can.

I have encountered so many cases where the owner's attitude has been "but that's the norm"... etc etc.

Call me critical, but believe me, in the job I had, I seen a lot, I've lost count of the amount of salon owners I have seen own the large houses, drive around in the expensive cars and swear blind they can't afford to pay their staff extra. Owners that value and pay their staff well are few and far between. One particular complaint that I dealt with stands out in my head was about A very expensive salon in Belfast (who will remain nameless) that had staff problems. When I went to see them I could not believe that their beauty manager, who had excellent training, 15 years experience, was punctial, polite etc was getting 20p an hour above mininum wage. When she dared asked for a rise based on her responsibilities, she was given the 'if you don't like it you can leave' attitude. She did, not only her job, but the industry permantly. AndI can't blame her. I tried to negotiate on her behalf, but arrogant pig wouldn't budge. His attitude may have been extreme compared to most, but the underlying un-willingness to pay exists throughout the industry all the same.

You only need to take a look around you and see that the mojority of workers in salons, both hair and beauty, are young. That is proof in itself. People who do not progress to ownership do not stick it out for the simple reason that it is soul destroying.

I know I'm starting to rant now, but it is about time that the owners of these salons start taking responsibility for their actions. Not everyone can be managers or owners. We all need people to cut hair, clean the streets, work in shops etc. For all of you salon owners out there that take advantage of your staff, I place the blame solely on YOU for giving the industry a bad name. Stop shirking your responsibilities and pay the bloody wages good workers deserve.

I rest my case."

 

[Kim Lawless]

Maybe there should be a union that people can join.

 

[weegirl]

There is the T&G (Transport and General Workers Union) that covers industries that do not have their own dedicated union, but unfortunately the Union's powers are limited. If employers have not actually broken UK law, then there is nothing the union can do.

This is the problem, mininum wage is legal, the onus is on the employer to value their staff and treat them with respect. A little respect goes a long way, a decent wage speaks volumes. If your staff are treated well and paid well, they generally will work hard and stay loyal. Mininum wage is still buttons after tax and insurance if taken out. It's maybe okay for a kid who still lives with their parents, but a mature woman with good experience and training should get more than £5.35 gross an hour. You don't get a mortgage, run a car and raise children on that very easily.

 

[CadenceAlex]

Get off your soap box.

You can't tar all salon owners with the same brush. People have to earn a higher wage.

Salon Owners take risks in business. So what they may have a nice house and an expensive car? Most people can't afford to put the petrol in them. The majority of the UK is up to their necks in debt. Not all is what it seems, remember that.

It is not just the beauty industry that girls are badly paid, it is every industry. A trainee Therapist would be on minimum wage because they are TRAINING. Same as a TRAINEE joiner.

Get educated, get paid more. Simple.

In my experience, Care Workers... Bin Men (I live next door to one and earning £200 a week for working a few early mornings is NOT slave labour)... get paid well in excess of Minimum wage. You only have to look at Jobcentre Plus and you will see that many people are paid above Minimum wage for what some would call, undesirable jobs.. or menial jobs.. or whatever you want to call them.

Why the hell should a young girl without qualifications get the same wage as someone who has spent several years studying towards a qualification?

For example, NVQ 2 and 3. Pay them more. They are qualified, they are professional... BUT they must be able to do their job. SMALL business' have to protect themselves as well as their staff.

Your comments were very narrow minded, and very unprofessional. I would be fuming if I were the Salon Owner who had been called 'Pig Headed' because some upstart from a Union decided they KNEW what my income was because they had glanced at my registration plate.

 

[weegirl]

Am I speaking a foreign language? Did you even read and UNDERSTAND what I said?

As a business owner myself I know very well the risks involved. You really do not have a right to assume that I do not. I also know the profits that can be made as well and believe me, lots of the owners that have the big cars have plenty of money to put petrol in them. To be honest, I wasn't going to say, but I have the car and house I was talking about, but I also ensure that I have the money to run them AND pay my staff decently. For a long time I didn't, I worked alone, worked like a dog to build it up whilst putting my profits back into the business, anyone with any business acumen knows you don't live beyond your means as your business may not survive the unforseen knocks that can happen from time to time. If some people are so shallow they haven't got the money to run the car but feel they have to 'get up to their necks in debt' just for show, that is their problem, not the problem of their staff.

I have a great clientile, which I am proud to say, is looked after very well by my excellent staff who are on a commission based on profits as well as a nice wage. As already stated, I pay them well, give them good holidays and conditions and in return, they are loyal, work very hard and make my business a healthy profit. I do not have to worry about a regular turnover of staff and the usual problems that come with it, trust issues, loss of clientile etc. For me, it is so much easier to look after your employees, respect works both ways and it really makes things less stressful.

I did not, at any time suggest that trainees should get the same pay as everyone else. I don't know where you got that from. The example that I gave was for a MANAGER with 15 years experience and excellent training. The point that I made was that you rarely see older women in the industry that are at lower levels because it is soul destroying. Why is that? Does that not prove a point?

I also did not tar all salon owners with the same brush. I quote from my post "For all of you salon owners out there that take advantage of your staff" - this is directed to salon owners that take advantage of their staff, if I meant ALL salon owners, I would have said ALL salon owners.

As already stated, this is a serious issue that I think should be debated.

 

[CadenceAlex]

Am I speaking a foreign language? Did you even read and UNDERSTAND what I said?

As a business owner myself I know very well the risks involved. You really do not have a right to assume that I do not. I also know the profits that can be made as well and believe me, lots of the owners that have the big cars have plenty of money to put petrol in them.

How do you know this? Do you view their accounts? I can understand you saying YOU have lots of money and a big car... because you are speaking from experience... but you have no right to make assumptions that everyone can afford to pay their staff above average wages. We all KNOW that if you pay more you are giving your staff the incentive to work better, and get greater job satisfaction, however, not EVERY small business can afford to do this.

To be honest, I wasn't going to say, but I have the car and house I was talking about, but I also ensure that I have the money to run them AND pay my staff decently. For a long time I didn't, I worked alone, worked like a dog to build it up whilst putting my profits back into the business, anyone with any business acumen knows you don't live beyond your means as your business may not survive the unforseen knocks that can happen from time to time. If some people are so shallow they haven't got the money to run the car but feel they have to 'get up to their necks in debt' just for show, that is their problem, not the problem of their staff.

I know many people who are in debt due to the unforeseen circumstances YOU mention. I know people who have gone bankrupt and lost their homes. I know people stuck in 7 year plans because they're up to their necks in it. I know that there are many on this site. And not one of them is 'shallow'. They are human like everyone else, debt IS a problem. Why should staff be paid above average, unless they have the qualifications to prove their merit? People have to PROVE themselves and earn it. You can't just employ someone and give them above average when you have no idea what their standard of work is.

I have a great clientile, which I am proud to say, is looked after very well by my excellent staff who are on a commission based on profits as well as a nice wage.

I did not, at any time suggest that trainees should get the same pay as everyone else. I don't know where you got that from. The example that I gave was for a MANAGER with 15 years experience and excellent training. The point that I made was that you rarely see older women in the industry that are at lower levels because it is soul destroying. Why is that? Does that not prove a point?

Why is it soul destroying that an older woman is on Minimum wage? Minimum wage is LEGAL. It is better than the dole isn't it? They've got self respect because they know they are working. If someone has gotten to that stage in life and is unqualified, do you pity them and pay them more money because they have CHOSEN not to further educate themselves?

I also did not tar all salon owners with the same brush. I quote from my post "For all of you salon owners out there that take advantage of your staff" - this is directed to salon owners that take advantage of their staff, if I meant ALL salon owners, I would have said ALL salon owners.

As already stated, this is a serious issue that I think should be debated.

You have said that you have a great Clientele, a big house, a good car, the money to pay your staff better wages... all I can see, is you putting across how great YOUR business acumen is. How well you're doing for yourself. You shouldn't be critical of other people and how they run their business' - that is what it is. THEIR BUSINESS.

If you want something in life you educate yourself, you get out there and you go for it. Don't complain when you leave school with barely any qualifications then decide you want more money, joining Unions and complaining about it.

Education = Advanced earnings.

The top Nail Technicians, top Beauty Therapists... people GOOD in their fields are earning very nicely. Look at how many fantastic Nail Technicians we have on this site, earning much more than the £15 a set of nails. Why is this? It is because they have put the time, money and effort into advancing themselves. No doubt alot of these people started off on LESS than Minimum Wage. Would have been grateful for a Minimum Wage.

It is down to a Salon Owner what they pay their staff. What is the problem if they're not breaking the Law?

Everyone starts off somewhere, it is up to them how far they want to go in their career.

 

[eager beaver]

I agree that many beauty therpaists need to paid higher than some companies are willing to spend, but the therapist knows how much they are getting paid before they start the job.

Also, many salon owners with lovely salons are up to their eyes in VAT bills, mortgage etc, and barely take home a penny for themselves. With the new increase in paid holidays coming soon, many slaon owners will besinking further, but hopefully, with the help of the therapists to increase turnover, they (the therapists) will reap the rewards in the future. (i am not a salon owner!)jmo

 

[CadenceAlex]

I agree that many beauty therpaists need to paid higher than some companies are willing to spend, but the therapist knows how much they are getting paid before they start the job.

Exactly. People know what their wage will be, it is up to them to take it.

Also, many salon owners with lovely salons are up to their eyes in VAT bills, mortgage etc, and barely take home a penny for themselves. With the new increase in paid holidays coming soon, many slaon owners will besinking further, but hopefully, with the help of the therapists to increase turnover, they (the therapists) will reap the rewards in the future. (i am not a salon owner!)jmo

Exactly again!

 

[weegirl]

I was a chartered accountant for some years before starting my own business, so yes, I do know what a lot of companies (locally and nationally) have in their accounts. I certainly have not been guessing or making it up. Part of my job was advising businesses (new and old) on how to run more efficiently, and I stand by my original statement that you DON'T LIVE BEYOND YOUR MEANS. This includes getting into debt, mortgages, loans etc that possible cannot be paid back if something goes seriously wrong. Every business need a financial plan to cope. It really is as simple as that, common sense. The majority of bankruptcies that I have seen have been due to lack of financial planning, or fincancial advice being ignored. There have been unfortunate exceptions to this, but again, solid planning can limit the effects of this. I'm not going to start about limited liabilities etc, that is a book in itself, but bankruptcy lasts for 1 year, not 7.

You seem to have in inherent inability to understand what I am trying to say. I will put it very plainly for you, I am not talking about the UNQUALIFIED or TRAINEES. I am talking about a mature individual who has said experience and qualifications. And yes, it is degrading for someone of this calibre to work for a mininum wage. An unqualified individual who works in a shop for mininum rate and mininum responsibility cannot be compared to someone with the responsibities of being a therapist or hairdresser.

I did not, at any time say that mininum wage is not legal, what I am saying is that a lot of employers that use the mininum pay scale think mininum wage is maximum wage, even for people who deserve more.

Precisely the reason that a lot of mature, experienced and qualified individuals choose NOT to take the low wage and change career!!!! Exactly MY point!!!

 

[weegirl]

On a lighter note, I am aware I am going to ruffle a few feathers with my comments, but hey, you employers out there that treat your staff right have nothing to be angry about!

 

[ValencianNails]

On a lighter note, I am aware I am going to ruffle a few feathers with my comments, but hey, you employers out there that treat your staff right have nothing to be angry about!

I think the problem might be tarring all salon owners with the same brush, we also need to be careful how we word things, such as "arrogant pig" for example

Everyone has a choice at the end of the day, if they feel unappreciated in their current position and the salon owner won't increase their wages then they need to look for employment elsewhere and find somewhere where they will be appreciated and also paid their worth.

 

[weegirl]

I definitely did not mean all salon or business owners, especially considering I am one myself! That particular salon owner I referred to was the worst that I had personally met, he did have a serious attitude problem. I did point out though that his attitude was extreme compared to most. We've probably all met one of those in our lifetime lol!

 

[minky]

Hi
I am an Nvq level 3 Hairdresser
Who has been a salon owner plus I have worked in the industry in a few different salons.
I have seen most of it and heard most of it like so many other qualified stylists on here.
I have had really good owners who paid me what I was worth,

and Ive had the other type of owner who paid me minimum legal wage and moaned about it .

I actually heard a phone conversation by one owner one day it went like this
"Why should I pay level 3 wages when I can get the level 2 for less"

Anyway in the end all of her top stylists left and she got in her lower paid level 2
stylists and tried to work them to the bone with all the clients on minimum pay.
I am not saying that the level 2 stylists weren't any good, they were good little stylists,
but really they were being used to do level three work at a lower pay .

The costly mistake she made was that the level 3 stylists had a regular clientèle
and she thought that the clients would just move over to the new stylists( no matter what level they were).

But the clients wanted their usual stylists back.
So the clients themselves found out were their usual stylists were working and went there instead.

Oh and I heard that they received the respect and better wages they deserved at the new salon due to incentives and commission ect .

I guess the other salon owner didn't know how much of a good thing she had going for her,

I don't think I will be alone in saying this ,
but when pay day came around I actually felt I was begrudged my minimum legal wages,

Anyway the last I heard the shop had closed within six months of all her stylists leaving .

Personally (as an owners point of view )I think a fair days pay for a fair days work and I think healthy profits made by a good team of staff should be rewarded with commissions ect and also incentive schemes in place, which any good boss will have in place already or think about having in place,

I think if Wee girl is qualified in her field and has seen a lot of these things going on,
she has definitely got some valid points here,
and maybe we could learn a few things, about running a healthy profitable business and also ways look after our valuable staff who help make it a healthy profitable business

Makes for a happier workplace and better wages and profits all around don't you think?

 

[Zo Zo]

I am not a salon owner, nor have I ever worked in a salon, so... I may not be entirely qualified to contribute to this thread, but... if I did have a salon, I think the way to go would be to pay performance related and profit related bonuses.

Why not? If the profit is there, why not share it with your staff, and if the profit is not there, well neither the salon owner nor the staff will be getting it.

 

[Cathie!]

From the original post, I have seen this in the salon I used to work in....management skills from the dark ages, you do it or you're out.....thankfully I was self-employed, paid my rent on time and never had to be hauled up to the office....saw it many times with their employed staff though, over petty issues.....fair shout to them, they run a succesful business and drive around in BMWs but they treat their staff like ****.....I couldn't sleep at night if I treated people the way they do.

 

[Cathie!]

I am not a salon owner, nor have I ever worked in a salon, so... I may not be entirely qualified to contribute to this thread, but... if I did have a salon, I think the way to go would be to pay performance related and profit related bonuses.

Why not? If the profit is there, why not share it with your staff, and if the profit is not there, well neither the salon owner nor the staff will be getting it.

I think it's called GREED one of the seven deadly sins lol......you get a taste and want more...of course not everyone is like that, but I guess some get the taste.....

 

[LBR]

I suppose another thing to think about is when you pay people what they are worth it does not mean they will stay with you.

My example, not a salon, I was paid a really good wage at an office job, thought I'd be there for years and loved the job, eventually left to go to another job with nearly £3,000 less per year as the company started to neglect their staff who had been with them for many years.

I think the ideal solution should be to pay a decent wage, treat staff with respect and also include them in any growth in business. If the business is doing well, staff should also benefit.

 

[Ruby]

Am I the problem of their staff.

I have a great clientile, which I am proud to say, is looked after very well by my excellent staff who are on a commission based on profits as well as a nice wage. As already stated, I pay them well, give them good holidays and conditions and in return, they are loyal, work very hard and make my business a healthy profit. I do not

I Cannot understand your post .
Your profile states that you are not a Nail Hair or Beauty Specialist so I can't understand your ranting .
What makes you think that salon owners treat their staff badly????????
I have a Salon I treat my staff well .
I am not going to feel guilty about having a car house and going on holiday.
I put a lot more work into my business than my staff.
Its no good someone sitting there watching the cash comming into the salon ,
and thinking its easy money its not .
The majority of it goes on overheads and trying to make sure that there is enough for the future.





Ruby

 

[oey]

My example, not a salon, I was paid a really good wage at an office job, thought I'd be there for years and loved the job, eventually left to go to another job with nearly £3,000 less per year as the company started to neglect their staff who had been with them for many years.

In which way were the long standing staff neglected Yvonne? I agree it all depends on the total package not just the financial one, but I think that sometimes change is needed no matter how well you are treated.

 

[weegirl]

Am I the problem of their staff.

I Canot understand your post .
Your profile states that you are not a Nail Hair or Beauty Specialist so I can't understand your ranting .
What makes you think that salon owners treat their staff badly????????
I have a Salon I treat my staff well .
I am not going to feel guilty about having a car house and going on holiday.
I put a lot more work into my business than my staff.
Its no good someone sitting there watching the cash comming into the salon ,
and thinking its easy money its not .
The majority of it goes on overheads and trying to make sure that there is enough for the future.

Ruby

I refer you back to my post about my past career in Chartered Accountancy and as a Union Rep - hopefully you will understand that I know more than most the overheads that are involved in running a business, not just a salon either, and the fact that I have so many contacts in the industry, both as a union rep and after I started my new career means that I have heard it from the horses mouth! I don't think I have to justify this further. Also, my profile doesn't state anything, I didn't bother to fill it in! I don't often comment on these forums unless I see something that I think is vitally important. I AM actually in the beauty field!! Why else am I reading these forums?!!

For anyone that does have a problem with my comments, I'm not being rude, but please read my posts accurately and question accordingly, I am quite busy and don't have time to read over questions that may not have been asked if my posts were read thoroughly.

In response to the other posts, I have always said I don't undersand the business ethos of some owners that don't value good staff. I couldn't be bothered with going through the hiring of trainees again if I can help it. I know everyone starts somewhere, but personally I have been there and done it, and I now have excellent, experienced staff who my clients know and trust. I deal with a lot of older clientile who prefer my company as they feel more comfortable with older therapists. Plus nothing beats experienced staff when things get busy or you get an awkward one! Lol. Happy staff = happy clientile, therefore more profits.

I have a colleague who owns a salon and nail bar (I sell her products) and the last day I was in, she started complaining that one of her staff was threatening to leave because of the wages, which to be fair, were not good. My colleague's excuse for not giving her a rise after qualifying was "but I give her time off to see the doctor, I'm good to her, look at the perks, she does her hair before she goes out on saturday night, I don't charge her" etc etc. I call a perk a company car, or a free holiday, not getting time off when going to the doctor, or being allowed to wash your hair. Nothing says more than a bit of extra green at the end of the week. The employee in question was looking for an extra £20 a week - that was nothing to this lady, believe me. Anyway, she didn't pay, the girl left, started her own mobile business and took clients with her, losing her business lot more than £20 a week.

I'm not saying everyone should do this, but for my business, giving my staff a share in profits, they feel like they own part of the business, therefore don't mind going that extra mile. They're very loyal, don't bull**** me and I know I can clear off for a few days and leave things in their hands. I really don't think they will leave for the forseeable future anyway, they see the work I put in and the stress running a business can cause so can't be bothered with the owner side of things, they are happy with their lot. If they did, I would wish them the best anyway, I don't have a problem seeing others do well. I don't know why people complicate their lives by treating people like dirt, life really is too short for that nonsense.

Anyway, as I have said in a previous post, those of you who geniunely treat your staff well have nothing to be ashamed about!