Extraction Ventilation for good health

[Urban Geek]

Christine, is your ventilation system mechanical as opposed to just being a vent? Obviously the extraction is mechanical....but I guess if the ventilation isn't mechanical, it wouldn't pull in enough clean air to replace what you have extracted?

It is a normal ventilation system with flaps (I don't know how better to describe it. It works in conjunction with the extraction unit. If a door is open or if the extraction unit is not switched on, the ventilation unit doesn't really work.

I'll try and take some pics and get some info from hubby and post. My extraction unit is all nicely boxed in alongside my nail station so it acts like a shelf for products. (I know I am lucky having a carpenter hubby.)

 

[The Geek]

I think the key problem here that everyone finds a struggle to get to grips with is that GP's actually know very little about nails and nail enhancement products. This is what specialists are for.

While it is certainly a possibility you have been breathing in far too much vapour and thus affecting your health, the chances are extremely low. Generally you have to breath in 100-200 times more vapour per breath than the average nail technician before you start to hit 'safety limits' and that is VERY difficult to do. Compare that to something like carbon monoxide and you start to see how high the safety threshold for monomers are. regardless, the important thing (whether you feel fine or not) is all down to limiting your exposure. Limit and lower as best as possible because thats the smart and safe thing to do just like car mechanics limit their exposure to automobile exhaust as they work. Just like carpenters limit their exposure to dust while they work (usually FAR more important than vapour exposure in our industry).

Though everyone is different and your exposure can only be guessed at, there are a million other issues that should be investigated along side of a GP's guess that its monomer inhalation. Heck, maybe its dust inhalation, maybe its SAD, maybe its a viral infection, maybe its a million other things that a million other people suffer from all over the world without coming near a nail salon. Do yourself a favour a find out!

I have a staff member that has been off with similar symptoms. She has been off for 4 months. Dr's cant find anything wrong with her but still keep giving sick notes. Funny thing is, she works in an office, no where NEAR near any nail products. However I sense if she would have said she does nails, you bet your ass the GP would have pinned it on that Sadly her condition improved in the 4 months she has been off.

I'm not saying vapour isn't a probability, I'm saying if you are serious about the situation, get proper tests done by a specialist so you can make informed choices. I'm sure if you had blood tests done, wouldn't the 'solvent' appear there?!?

Anyway, here is to the future, your health and wise decisions

 

[nailartist]

I have many of these same symptoms, Deni, but I've been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia for 10 years. I've also had several whiplash injuries, and I notice that when I work long days with my head down and my neck flexed, those vertigo symptoms increase. And when I take a break from work (like at Christmas time), the symptoms go away, because I'm not bending my neck all the time.

What's the possibility that you've somehow developed a repetitive stress injury to your neck/cervical spine? This can cause nearly all of the symptoms you mentioned. Just a thought.

 

[Urban Geek]

It is not only monomer vapours which can cause problems as I got very ill in my early nail days due to over exposure of nail enamels.

 

[Deni]

I think the key problem here that everyone finds a struggle to get to grips with is that GP's actually know very little about nails and nail enhancement products. This is what specialists are for.

Thats just what surprised me too sam but my doctor said he had actually treated nail technicians with this before in Holland.

While it is certainly a possibility you have been breathing in far too much vapor and thus affecting your health, the chances are extremely low. Generally you have to breath in 100-200 times more vapor per breath than the average nail technician before you start to hit 'safety limits' and that is VERY difficult to do. Compare that to something like carbon monoxide and you start to see how high the safety threshold for monomers are. regardless, the important thing (whether you feel fine or not) is all down to limiting your exposure. Limit and lower as best as possible because thats the smart and safe thing to do just like car mechanics limit their exposure to automobile exhaust as they work. Just like carpenters limit their exposure to dust while they work (usually FAR more important than vapor exposure in our industry).

Though everyone is different and your exposure can only be guessed at, there are a million other issues that should be investigated along side of a GP's guess that its monomer inhalation. Heck, maybe its dust inhalation, maybe its SAD, maybe its a viral infection, maybe its a million other things that a million other people suffer from all over the world without coming near a nail salon. Do yourself a favor a find out!

Yes sam i agree and i DO intend to find out but in the meantime what do i do regarding extraction? can you advise?

I have a staff member that has been off with similar symptoms. She has been off for 4 months. Dr's cant find anything wrong with her but still keep giving sick notes. Funny thing is, she works in an office, no where NEAR near any nail products. However I sense if she would have said she does nails, you bet your ass the GP would have pinned it on that Sadly her condition improved in the 4 months she has been off.

I know lots of people with lots of different issues sam . I am not comparing myself with others i am purely saying what a doctor had told me!

I'm not saying vapor isn't a probability, I'm saying if you are serious about the situation, get proper tests done by a specialist so you can make informed choices. I'm sure if you had blood tests done, wouldn't the 'solvent' appear there?!?

I had the blood tests done before he realized i was a nail technician Sam as i stated in my thread he tested for thyroid and diabetes.

Anyway, here is to the future, your health and wise decisions

Sam, if you read my posts you will see that i need to find out about extraction..i have seen how important it is time and time again yet so many people seem to know so little to what is the requirements.

Even my local council stated in a recent 'change of use' application that before they would agree I would need to fit and instal and keep in good working order a complete filter extraction system for the salon i was proposing to buy!

I am surprised you feel this way considering you were trying to build an extraction desk yourself as stated in a thread referring to you and purex..Please will you tell us why you didn't find this way of extraction suitable IF like it is claimed it is not really harmful in the amount we use?

Also why then do we get the warnings the 'msds' sheets regarding over exposure if we don't need proper extraction?

Hopefully you will be able to help with some of these questions Sam.

Thanks in advance..x

I don't know what happened there some of my reply is in the quote box!

 

[Sassy Hassy]

Well firstly I had the symptons you describe as you know Deni. Sometimes my dizziness was so bad that I couldn't get my head off the pillow. It was happening more and more often so in the end I TOLD my doctor that I HAD to be referred to a specialist as I'm self employed and can't afford to be ill. After extensive tests, including an MRI scan, and a look into my family history it turns out it was a vertigo migraine. This is usually diet related and by process of elimination I found it was MSG in Chinese food - touch wood I haven't had a bad one since I worked this out. Common triggers are coffee, cheese, red wine, legumes such as peas and beans, chocolate and many more.

Your doctor should be referring you to a specialist not diagnosing you without facts. No doubt the stress of thinking you may be about to lose your career is adding stress and is hardly helping your situation. Hun you MUST get referred to an ear specialist, and if he thinks its something within your nail products then you must get this tested too as you may be sensitive to certain ingredients, but you'll never know unless you get blood tests etc done.

I really hope you get this sorted hun as I know how it has got you down for so long, but get a diagnosis based on facts and not his opinion. However I do think it is good that you have highlighted that we should all take health and safety seriously and minimise our risks to over exposure and sensitisation.

 

[Oceana]

This thread has obviously caused a lot of controversy and unanswered questions.

Would it not be a good idea to have an independant body research the topic? It seems there is a lot of conflicting evidence surrounding this so surely an thorough study into it would give nail technicians the concrete proof we need?

 

[paula1973]

This thread has obviously caused a lot of controversy and unanswered questions.

Would it not be a good idea to have an independant body research the topic? It seems there is a lot of conflicting evidence surrounding this so surely an thorough study into it would give nail technicians the concrete proof we need?

I agree, lots of controversy and an independant body would be the only way.
I used to work in a salon, with a girl who wasn't a nail tech but a beauty therapist. When i started working there she started having symptoms simular to deni's and the dr. blamed me and my monomer, i no longer work there and don't know if the symptoms dissapeared with me.
It would be very sad for you to have to give up something yr so passionate about Deni, i know it would be the end of my world, nails is my life.
Hope you sort it out and carry on doing what you love

 

[geeg]

This topic has been thoroughly researched and Doug Schoons book covers it well.

Creative as a company have been advocating the use of extraction ventillation located at the work source where it affects your breathing zone for 25 years (the ONLY company to do so for many many years) ... the majority of technicians have not taken a blind bit of notice in the main because they did not want to pay for it.

Deni has it seems to me done quite allot (most likely more than enough) to protect herself and as mentioned earlier has no proof at all at this moment in time, that it is her nail products that are causing her distress!

 

[The Geek]

Ill see if I can get a hold of the only independant UK study I am aware of. It was done last year and found vapour in the salon air to be well under any safety limit.

 

[The Geek]

I am surprised you feel this way considering you were trying to build an extraction desk yourself as stated in a thread referring to you and purex..Please will you tell us why you didn't find this way of extraction suitable IF like it is claimed it is not really harmful in the amount we use?

Denise, I never stated that extraction wasnt important. Of course its important but primarily for dust and odour control (note I mentioned odour and not vapour). Heck, its even great for vapour control, however that would not be my #1 reason for extraction. Dust control is my #1 reason for extraction.

Im not sure why this is suddenly a controversial discussion on the site the last week or so. Products have changed very little over the past 8 years. Nail professionals are better trained, are working safer and with better extraction and filtration measures.

This is when I get concerned about the ramification of fear marketing and misinformation.

 

[Urban Geek]

Sam,

What extraction ventilation system would you recommend?

 

[The Geek]

Odour/vapour control? 1 central air scrubber for the salon to expel vapour outdoors and allow fresh air to circulate is considered to be good practise and is a very inexpensive, viable option for just about any salon environment.

Dust control needs a better 'at source' option to capture dust as you work. So in that instance, any type of true extraction system (one that takes dust,pollen, vapour, etc... from your breathing zone and expels it outside) is the very best option. When that isn't a viable option your next best bet is a professional grade respected filtration system that will capture the dust. Just ensure that you change the filters at intervals specified by the manufacturer (which shockingly most do not!). I am looking at a couple options for recommendation but I do not have one specifically that I would 'put my name to' for a variety of reasons.

Regardless, taking any step to limit dust and vapour exposure is always a positive one. That isn't just relegated to extraction/scrubbing/filtration systems, its down to working smart, producing less dust and wastage to covering your products when not in use and using covered lined bins for disposal.

Working smarter will prevent more than just excess dust and odour.

Hope this clears the air (my favourite new saying here!)

 

[Urban Geek]

Thanks Sam - that's very helpful:hug:

 

[The Beauty Shed]

Here is my 2 pennies worth:

1. These 'problems' may have been cause by something else, such as diet, but you cannot rule out that it could be from the vapours or dust. Yes there has been major research and our trade has been established as very safe, but try telling someone who is allergic to nuts that they are very safe and they shouldn't worry about it!! It is possible!

2. There is NO NEED for 99% of nail technicians to worry about these problems and so-called side affects, we are not all worried about being allergic to nuts are we!!!!

3. This thread did start out as a simple means of getting more information about extraction ventilation and has turned into a debate about whether Deni is actually suffering from side affects from doing nails - utterly stupid!!!

Deni, have you looked at www.salonstore.co.uk, this is the website for Purex who do a very good table which includes extraction ventilation, it is inbuilt to the lamp, drawers and there is a dust extration thing in the table. Just have a look at these whilst you look at the others. I hope you do get some valuable help out of this thread, instead of feeling like you have caused WW3!!!

 

[geeg]

Here is my 2 pennies worth:

1. These 'problems' may have been cause by something else, such as diet, but you cannot rule out that it could be from the vapours or dust. Yes there has been major research and our trade has been established as very safe, but try telling someone who is allergic to nuts that they are very safe and they shouldn't worry about it!! It is possible!

2. There is NO NEED for 99% of nail technicians to worry about these problems and so-called side affects, we are not all worried about being allergic to nuts are we!!!!

3. This thread did start out as a simple means of getting more information about extraction ventilation and has turned into a debate about whether Deni is actually suffering from side affects from doing nails - utterly stupid!!!

Deni, have you looked at www.salonstore.co.uk, this is the website for Purex who do a very good table which includes extraction ventilation, it is inbuilt to the lamp, drawers and there is a dust extration thing in the table. Just have a look at these whilst you look at the others. I hope you do get some valuable help out of this thread, instead of feeling like you have caused WW3!!!

For goodness sake ... where do you see WW3 in this thread? Absurd.

EXACTLY what I said would happen has happened. (only because the poster has got everyone worried now about her side effects and saying that her Doctor has said (with no proof mind) that it is her products causing it, that the issue has been mentioned.

As to your point number 3 --- If the original post had simply been about extrraction ventillation the thread would be entirely different ... but it was not ... great detail was gone into about the symptoms and the doctors visit, his opinion etc. This was the majority of the post. I think it is perfectl yunderstandable and absolutely predictable that many technicians have been worried and scared by this post and have reacted to it.

 

[The Geek]

The emphasis of the thread (and indeed the first post) was that supposedly working in the industry has made her ill so she needs extraction. Not addressing the probability of that claim is absurd and irresponsible for any community.

Secondly, a comparison of nut allergies muddles the discussion even more! A nut allergy can kill you. Vapour exposure can make the room smell!

 

[Deni]

Hi..
The one thing that my post really has made me realise is that I will never want to post anything on this site again.

When my doctor told me this all i wanted to do was turn to people that i thought really cared about me and also the nail industry, and to me that is 'the nail geek' site. I was/am so upset.

Of course my doctor like any other doctor isn't fully trained up in the chemistry that is involved the way Doug Schoon is, that reason is another reason i turned to this site. But if no doctors are this way trained how can cases be reported? now THAT is scary! I hadn't thought of that Gigi.

Why this thread has become controversal as Sam says I just dont know! Why is the debate over saftey and ventilation worry people so much? It needs to be addressed.

Again i am sorry to anyone i have offended or have scare mongered, i really didnt mean to do that.

But i am not sorry to those that are now thinking about their own health..x

I would like to add that i was not in anyway pointing the finger or having a go at anyone or company in any shape or form..x

 

[MINKUS]

Hi..
The one thing that my post really has made me realise is that I will never want to post anything on this site again.

When my doctor told me this all i wanted to do was turn to people that i thought really cared about me and also the nail industry, and to me that is 'the nail geek' site. I was/am so upset.

Of course my doctor like any other doctor isn't fully trained up in the chemistry that is involved the way Doug Schoon is, that reason is another reason i turned to this site. But if no doctors are this way trained how can cases be reported? now THAT is scary! I hadn't thought of that Gigi.

Why this thread has become controversal as Sam says I just dont know! Why is the debate over saftey and ventilation worry people so much? It needs to be addressed.

Again i am sorry to anyone i have offended or have scare mongered, i really didnt mean to do that.

But i am not sorry to those that are now thinking about their own health..x

I would like to add that i was not in anyway pointing the finger or having a go at anyone or company in any shape or form..x

aw hun DONT say that:hug:

amb xx

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

I am now putting my polly Anna hat on for this one....
Well if this thread has just highlighted and made some Technicians look at their safe and smart working practise then this surely has to be a good thing...Always looking on the bright side
As for Deni's health problem, maybe she will be kind enough to post the end result of the doctors findings, fingers crossed xxx ....

I for one had the same last year and Marian, Liza and Gigi will tell you how ill I was during the Nailympics , nearly didn't finish the comp due to breathing problems and this had been going on from early October, I suffered the same, Dizzy, breathing problems, tight chest, nausea, the shakes like I was on a rehab program, aso ....
after many months of blood tests and I got tested, scanned and x rayed for everything you can think of...my blood cells where reacting like there was world war 3 going on in my body....it turned out to be a very nasty viral infection that I was suffering from given to me by a client bless her, huge work load and comping burn out, 3 death in 18 months so mega stress, bad diet, Aspartame due to me having taken to sweeteners in my tea contributed to all these symptoms.... so I withdrew from Comping, took things much more easy, drank so much water that I COULD HAVE FLOATED THE QE2...
It took me all of last year to get back to normal, well as normal as I could ever be and so far so good.....
So I hope for Deni's sake that this turns out to be just that and she can continue to be a fab Nail Technician.....Fingers crossed for you Deni and don't let this thread make you a stranger to the board.....
Get well soon xx