Fining a problem customer help

[skingeek78]

This is a really interesting one. I failed to show up for an appointment last week. It wasn't deliberate, I just couldn't make it but I didn't call the lady either. . Completely my fault.

Fifteen minutes after I should have been there I get a call saying 'Oh you have failed to show up and now you have a £75 cancellation charge, how would you like to pay it, by card? '

She was a lovely lady but this worked me up a little - my first question comment was ' if I don't pay you how exactly are you going to enforce it? it will cost you more money to pursue me than what I owe you'. She then went onto say ' but my clients always pay me when they don't show up' and my reply was ' well now you have one that won't'.

That was the end of that. It may serve as a deterrent but other than that It's pointless unless you really are weak minded and would get your card out and pay.

I refuse to pay a cancellation fee and equally I refuse to pay a deposit in this industry.


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I think you are great Virtues I really do but this is shocking

 

[virtues2011]

I think you are great Virtues I really do but this is shocking

Yeah I know. I can take it. X

I'm not saying I'm right here. I just point blank refused to pay it.

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[Emily S]

Yeah I know. I can take it. X

I'm not saying I'm right here. I just point blank refused to pay it.

This is a very true point and exactly why for such a long time I was reluctant to put a fee in place as I am of the same attitude.. it's not that I don't agree with the fee I just don't see what anyone would do to reinforce it.

I have now put this rule in place but I don't genuinely expect anyone will follow it through but it's a deterrent and gives me better grounds when I refuse to book them in in future.

Most people don't care, we're not dentists who have limited places, there's salons on every street around here they'll just go elsewhere!!

 

[jmd1980]

It's about respect. Things happen to us all in everyday life that cause changed plans, or last minute emergencies. That is inevitable and unavoidable. But unless you are hospitalised in a coma there is no excuse to not make a twenty second phone call or a text, to let someone know you can't make it. I expect this respect from my clients, and I get it. However there are sadly some people who change every appointment, and cause you to lose business and therefore money. I think if a client is costing you money on a regular basis it is time to let them go!

 

[skingeek78]

It's about respect. Things happen to us all in everyday life that cause changed plans, or last minute emergencies. That is inevitable and unavoidable. But unless you are hospitalised in a coma there is no excuse to not make a twenty second phone call or a text, to let someone know you can't make it. I expect this respect from my clients, and I get it. However there are sadly some people who change every appointment, and cause you to lose business and therefore money. I think if a client is costing you money on a regular basis it is time to let them go!

I completely agree

 

[Julie-Liz]

I had a hair client, well i cant call her a client because i never got to touch her hair!! she booked in all the time and cancelled literally 10 mins before appointment was due, she continuously messaged me with pictures of cuts she wanted, asking if i could make her this colour and that. In the end i pencilled her in and if someone else wanted that slot i gave it to them. she would then cancel last minute and i would be okay with it because i had another booking to attend. after about a year she stopped booking and messaging. people are strange, i dont understand why they do it.

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[virtues2011]

I do see all sides of this thread. I have my own business and I'm also a client of others businesses. I agree that those that do it all the time, shouldn't. But I knew that I wouldn't visit this establishment again, so for the lady to 'sack' me would never have been an issue for me. Probably this is why I didn't call or pay her charge.

It is disrespectful. I can't say otherwise.

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[bluesmith5]

Hello, I have a policy where if you cancel with less than 24hours of your appointment I fine half the appointment price. Worked out very well so far stopping time wasters. I have a customer who has done this twice so fined her, one time she said her dad had been in a car crash so I didn't fine her yet when's saw her and asked how her dad was for a split second she looked puzzled do I think she might have fibbed. Awful! She reschedules her appointments at least 3 times every time. Last week I had a word with her about it as it's getting silly now, she said she understood etc. tonight she was booked in for acrylics and Gelish toes, which takes me a whole evening so turned a few jobs away. She has now messaged saying she just wants toes done. Would you make her pay a small fee for cancelling the acrylics or just try and fill the space? I am shattered so quite relieved it's only toes lol thank u in advance xxx

Wow, very disrespectful. I grapple with this as well, I think all small business owners who have an appointment-based business grapples with this. For some reason, maybe because we're not doctors and lawyers, it seems difficult for our clients to respect that we are running a business. So, I might give this person another chance BUT...a big BUT... I would LET HER KNOW IT'S HER LAST CHANCE. I put that in all caps not because I'm yelling, but to emphasize it. I think we, as women, tend to let people get away with doing things that bother us for too long without saying anything. In a business situation, when someone is wasting your time, they are costing you money. So, I would sit down with her, when she arrived, and tell her that before you engage in any services that you need to talk first.

I would look her in the eye and say, "I'm running a business. What I do puts food on my table, gas in my car, and pays for all the products I use to do the services that you like. You booked 2 services that, altogether, take 4 hours to perform. You may not have realized this but when you called to cancel one of your services, I had turned away 3 people who wanted services this evening because I had you booked for 4 hours. Because you changed your mind at the last minute and I already turned those people away, that's a loss of income for me. This is why I charge a fee for canceled services. Otherwise people cancel on me whenever it suits them and I go home with no income. Do you understand?"

That's what I would say. Everyone's different. My point is that you have to confront her about her behavior. You can do it pleasantly and nonchalantly. Not all confrontations have to be heated or unpleasant.

This is literally how I have had to talk to clients at times. I don't understand why it is so difficult for people to think outside of themselves, but it seems to be tough for some. You have to sit there and explain it as if they are a child, that you make money because they show up and pay you for your time and skill. Duh! :irked:

It's up to you whether you want to charge her for the suddenly canceled appointment. The way I make such decisions is I look at how much the person has "cost" me over time. For example, whenever someone cancels and reschedules their service, and I didn't fill that time slot with the same service or anyone at all, then I calculate that loss. So if she scheduled an acrylic fill with nail art and canceled it, rescheduled it for another day and I didn't fill that slot she canceled, then I lost $40 for example. If she has done that twice more, and I never filled those time slots with paying clients, then she cost me a total of $120. Then that evening when she canceled one of her services instead of getting both services, she cost you even more money. Think of it that way and you're thinking more like a small business person. Why would you keep a client that costs you more than you're making on her? That's what clients are for, right? To make you money?

So, you can fire her as a client, or get ruthless and charge her the fine every time she cancels. And, from now on you will only schedule her as the last appointment of the day so if she doesn't show up then you can at least just go home early. Or, you can get the phone numbers of those who wanted to get in and let them know that if you have a cancellation that you'll call them back. Then if she doesn't show up or cancels you can call up the ones who really wanted to see you.

We have to learn to stand up for ourselves. I have clients who "get it" and clients who don't. :smack: It's very stressful dealing with clients who don't "get it" that you're a small business owner and they shouldn't cancel at the last minute or no-show for their appointments, etc. But people do what they get away with so we have to stand up for ourselves, be respectful of our bottom line and our needs and be respectful to the client, but be firm and let them know what is and what is not okay.

Thanks for letting me vent! This forum is great! :biggrin:

 

[bluesmith5]

This is a really interesting one. I failed to show up for an appointment last week. It wasn't deliberate, I just couldn't make it but I didn't call the lady either. . Completely my fault.

Fifteen minutes after I should have been there I get a call saying 'Oh you have failed to show up and now you have a £75 cancellation charge, how would you like to pay it, by card? '

She was a lovely lady but this worked me up a little - my first question comment was ' if I don't pay you how exactly are you going to enforce it? it will cost you more money to pursue me than what I owe you'. She then went onto say ' but my clients always pay me when they don't show up' and my reply was ' well now you have one that won't'.

That was the end of that. It may serve as a deterrent but other than that It's pointless unless you really are weak minded and would get your card out and pay.

I refuse to pay a cancellation fee and equally I refuse to pay a deposit in this industry.


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Regardless of whether or not people pay the fee, you are without this person as your service provider and she successfully fired you as a client, so I think it worked out for the both of you. You don't respect her and her business and she doesn't have to put up with you ever no-showing her again. Like another person said on here, there are plenty of other beauticians & manicurists out there. Right?

Whether or not you are in the habit of no-showing on someone maybe it will make you think twice next time. She certainly won't have that happen to her from you again. I don't see why you're offended because you probably offended her by costing her time and money. That is highly offensive to anyone. Plus, you showed her a lack of common courtesy and respect by not even bothering to call and warn her that you weren't going to be able to make the appointment. If you're in this industry then you should know from experience what that feels like and not do that to someone else.

I have a cancellation fee policy in place myself but I don't call people asking for payment. I consider my policy more of a "you're fired" cancellation policy. It works to fire those clients who won't bother to show me the common courtesy of a phone call should they need to cancel. If they no-show me I make a note of it and if they try to reschedule I talk to them about it. Usually, especially if they're not regulars, I never see them again. I'm agreeable and kind-hearted so I take everyone's situation on a case by case basis. But I would rather build my clientele with people who show me common courtesy and respect than treat me like I'm an afterthought or with no thought at all.

 

[Kiva]

Aghhhh this gets on my nerves, it's so unfair of people, they seem to forget it's your job & how you earn your money. I think for those who continue to cancel & change their minds on what they want done should be charged a fee.
It also annoys me when people have booked for example gel polish and when they arrive say oh could you do my toes as well and take offence when you explain you have a client booked in for the next appointment slot, I do always ask when taking appointments is it your hands only or feet only etc

 

[ColourGirly]

'Being fined' and 'being fired'


Sounds awfully harsh.

Something's things happen in life, then we can use a thing called 'discretion'.

I've never had this issue, when a client keeps pestering I just say send me some dates when your free and we can looks at your pics at your appointment. Then they have committed their free time and not tried to fit into your earliest appointment. If that makes sense

 

[ColourGirly]

So, I would sit down with her, when she arrived, and tell her that before you engage in any services that you need to talk first.

I would look her in the eye and say, "I'm running a business. What I do puts food on my table, gas in my car, and pays for all the products I use to do the services that you like. You booked 2 services that, altogether, take 4 hours to perform. You may not have realized this but when you called to cancel one of your services, I had turned away 3 people who wanted services this evening because I had you booked for 4 hours. Because you changed your mind at the last minute and I already turned those people away, that's a loss of income for me. This is why I charge a fee for canceled services. Otherwise people cancel on me whenever it suits them and I go home with no income. Do you understand?"

Wow!

I actually like it it when a client shortens their appt, a bit of breathing space, just one though not lots

 

[Nikki May]

This is a really interesting one. I failed to show up for an appointment last week. It wasn't deliberate, I just couldn't make it but I didn't call the lady either. . Completely my fault.

Fifteen minutes after I should have been there I get a call saying 'Oh you have failed to show up and now you have a £75 cancellation charge, how would you like to pay it, by card? '

She was a lovely lady but this worked me up a little - my first question comment was ' if I don't pay you how exactly are you going to enforce it? it will cost you more money to pursue me than what I owe you'. She then went onto say ' but my clients always pay me when they don't show up' and my reply was ' well now you have one that won't'.

That was the end of that. It may serve as a deterrent but other than that It's pointless unless you really are weak minded and would get your card out and pay.

I refuse to pay a cancellation fee and equally I refuse to pay a deposit in this industry.


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Hahaha, I need to get stronger. I would of probably called her, apologised for missing the appointment and asked her if she accepts PayPal for the cancellation fee. Have you tried quitting sugar? I lost so much weight and never get cravings for anything anymore. Also look into raising your leptin levels. Leptin is your feel full hormone and western diets mean we are low in leptin.

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[izzidoll]

Thank you for all your replies everyone. It's a tricky one! She comes about once a month for her toes and that's it so wouldn't massively miss her business and tbh she's not the nicest person in the world lol. Might message back saying "yes w can just do your toes but next time please make sure u want the treatments before booking them as I turned work away to fit you in tonight." I'm trying to make her see that every time she mucks me about I'm loosing business as I'm rather booked up these days xxx

I think it would be very unprofessional to send a message like this to a client, and not just because of the text talk, its too blunt verging on rude. You might talk to a friend like this, but not a client.
We are in a service industry and clients are our liveliehood, yes at times we need to be clear about our policies, but it has to be done in a professional way.

A reply like "on this occasion I will change your booking to toes only, however in future please note that a cancellation charge will apply to late changes like this."

I also agree with some geeks that say not to take advance appointments from this client, say to her maybe its best if she contacts you nearer the time or on the day she wants the treatment done to make an appointment, that way she will know she is free, wording it that its because she is such a busy person and it would be best for her.

'Being fined' and 'being fired'


Sounds awfully harsh.

Something's things happen in life, then we can use a thing called 'discretion'.

I've never had this issue, when a client keeps pestering I just say send me some dates when your free and we can looks at your pics at your appointment. Then they have committed their free time and not tried to fit into your earliest appointment. If that makes sense

I also don't get the whole "Fining" a client.
Yes I understand taking a non refundable deposit as I have done this with Christmas appointments before. I also understand big salons who have cancellation policies where if you fail to turn up you get charged. If I ever did this and the reason for missing my appointment wasnt accepted (it would need to be something pretty serious for me to be a no show!) and I had to pay then I would....but if it was worded that I was being fined for not turning up then I would refuse, saying well if you want to fine me then take me to court!

 

[bluesmith5]

I also don't get the whole "Fining" a client.
Yes I understand taking a non refundable deposit as I have done this with Christmas appointments before. I also understand big salons who have cancellation policies where if you fail to turn up you get charged. If I ever did this and the reason for missing my appointment wasnt accepted (it would need to be something pretty serious for me to be a no show!) and I had to pay then I would....but if it was worded that I was being fined for not turning up then I would refuse, saying well if you want to fine me then take me to court!

I think we're getting stuck on wording. "Firing" and "fining" are words we're using when discussing this issue. I would never say to a client I was "fining" them nor would I tell them they are "fired." In so many words.

The issue brought up for this post was about a client repeatedly cancelling, changing her appointments and then, at the last minute, changing her service to just one. Not everyone has the same business model, some people charge a fee for cancellations, others take deposits, a lot don't do either of these. People do what they are comfortable with and what works for them. I choose to charge a fee. Having a fee doesn't mean I'm heartless and if you have a darn good reason for not showing up for your appointment I will charge you anyway. It means that if you shrug off your appointment I will charge you a fee because I lost money for that appt slot that you couldn't be bothered to warn me you weren't going to show up for. If you pay me the fee then you'll remember not to do that again. And, I will tell you to be sure and call me next time, so I can find someone to fill your spot. This is my business, not a hobby. I'm trying to make an income to live off of.

Also, I would hope that a person in the service industry is reasonable with clients and takes situations on a case by case basis. I don't believe someone is being "too harsh" when confronting a client that repeatedly cancels on short notice and costs a small business owner much needed income. The people we service are our clients, and we want them to return, but I don't want to coddle someone who is taking advantage of me, either. We teach people how to treat us. So if we don't like what someone is doing, we must find a way to communicate this. That's all.

I don't believe for one second that there is a manicurist or hair stylist out there who has never had any issue with any of their clients, ever. I don't believe that. When you deal with people on a regular basis, you are going to have an issue crop up at some point.

Confrontation is sometimes necessary, and it doesn't have to be an unpleasant confrontation, either. We can be kind, smile, use gentle but firm sentences to get our point across. Then we can go on Salon Geek and vent our little hearts out! :lol:

 

[virtues2011]

Whether or not you are in the habit of no-showing on someone maybe it will make you think twice next time.
If you can not enforce the fine why would I think twice next time?
She certainly won't have that happen to her from you again. I wouldn't know I have no intention of going back. I don't see why you're offended because you probably offended her by costing her time and money. I didn't pay it, I told her what I thought, why would I be offended? She irritated me a little with the comments, nothing more. That is highly offensive to anyone. Plus, you showed her a lack of common courtesy and respect by not even bothering to call and warn her that you weren't going to be able to make the appointment. If you're in this industry then you should know from experience what that feels like and not do that to someone else.

I have to admire people that preach! Forgive me please, I do more for the people in this industry than most would dream about. However that doesn't take away the fact that I didn't call her. I have never said this was acceptable. I brought a different thought process to this thread, nothing more. I didn't write it for acceptance or forgiveness. The point is, you cannot easily enforce a charge unless it is written in your terms and conditions of your business, then you have to weigh up the pros and cons of trying to enforce it. Your reputation may cost you more than the cancellation charge in the long run - should you not wish to service the client again then that is your prerogative.

 

[ColourGirly]

I never have issues - they are only issues if you make them issues for yourself.

Everything concerning my clients is just part of the job I love.

 

[skingeek78]

I have to admire people that preach! Forgive me please, I do more for the people in this industry than most would dream about. However that doesn't take away the fact that I didn't call her. I have never said this was acceptable. I brought a different thought process to this thread, nothing more. I didn't write it for acceptance or forgiveness. The point is, you cannot easily enforce a charge unless it is written in your terms and conditions of your business, then you have to weigh up the pros and cons of trying to enforce it. Your reputation may cost you more than the cancellation charge in the long run - should you not wish to service the client again then that is your prerogative.

My take on this. I have a cancellation policy and choose if I enforce it or not, tone honest it would be for repeat offenders only, everyone forgets things etc.. I agree this is difficult to do, If I choose to attempt to enforce it and they don't pay then they forfeit right to further treatment. Granted my area of the industry differs slightly but the fact remains that no one deserves to have their time wasted on a regular basis.
I agree have a cancellation no show policy written into paperwork, it makes sense and deters those who feel they are too important to bother.

I must say that in 7 years only refused further treatment for one client.

My husband is terrible with missed appointments, I wouldn't like to add up how many dental missed appointments I have had to pay on his behalf, his last dentist refused to book him in without him paying a deposit. I don't blame them, its so rude and makes me mad.

 

[virtues2011]

My take on this. I have a cancellation policy and choose if I enforce it or not, tone honest it would be for repeat offenders only, everyone forgets things etc.. I agree this is difficult to do, If I choose to attempt to enforce it and they don't pay then they forfeit right to further treatment. Granted my area of the industry differs slightly but the fact remains that no one deserves to have their time wasted on a regular basis.
I agree have a cancellation no show policy written into paperwork, it makes sense and deters those who feel they are too important to bother.

I must say that in 7 years only refused further treatment for one client.

My husband is terrible with missed appointments, I wouldn't like to add up how many dental missed appointments I have had to pay on his behalf, his last dentist refused to book him in without him paying a deposit. I don't blame them, its so rude and makes me mad.

I agree with you. I don't think it has anything to do with people thinking they are too important to bother cancelling, maybe I'm reading that this is just your interpretation of people's attitudes.

Are your views the same for those that reschedule continously?

I have a lady very loyal to my hair salon and my CACI treatments but probably she calls me to rearrange her appointments twice a week. My thoughts are never to charge her or refuse her treatments. I will still get the money from her but just a few days late. This probably works for me better than most as i will never work back to back. I always spread my time out and will always leave an hour or so in between clients as I never sit down when I treat. I know not everyone has this luxury. That said I still now have the 'I can't earn money because you've rearranged' situation. Would you charge her for this lost time? Personally I wouldn't but I'd have far more to lose here than I would gain by trying to charge her..but this is personal to my situation so I expect very different views on this also.

I think we all know that not calling to cancel is disrespectful. That was never in question.

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[skingeek78]

I agree with you. I don't think it has anything to do with people thinking they are too important to bother cancelling, maybe I'm reading that this is just your interpretation of people's attitudes.

Are your views the same for those that reschedule continously?

I have a lady very loyal to my hair salon and my CACI treatments but probably she calls me to rearrange her appointments twice a week. My thoughts are never to charge her or refuse her treatments. I will still get the money from her but just a few days late. This probably works for me better than most as i will never work back to back. I always spread my time out and will always leave an hour or so in between clients as I never sit down when I treat. I know not everyone has this luxury. That said I still now have the 'I can't earn money because you've rearranged' situation. Would you charge her for this lost time? Personally I wouldn't but I'd have far more to lose here than I would gain by trying to charge her..but this is personal to my situation so I expect very different views on this also.

I think we all know that not calling to cancel is disrespectful. That was never in question.

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Yes I have had clients like that and that's exactly what I mean about choosing to attempt to enforce, you have to weigh it up definitely.

With regard to my comment about importance I can think of no other reason for my husband (for example) behaving this way except that he feels the whole world revolves around him :-D