I also work as an IT contractor in a large investment bank in the city. Have been contracting for the last 8 years. The whole dept. are contractors bar a couple of managers. All "staff" have set shifts we are required to cover. The shifts are advertised as such and no we cannot decide to just leave when we want to and come in when we want to. think you'll find they'll get rid of you in a heartbeat and get someone else in.
Re: staff member issue
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MTHair78
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That is very different. You are paid based on that contract and its stipulations. Self employed Hairstylist are paid by individual clients on a service basis. We pay a weekly rent to the salon owner for use of a chair and a bit of the utilities... Typically we also pay for our own product, book our Own clients appointments, etc... So yes, I come and go as I please, because it is not my salon.
If it were my salon it would be different, I would want to be there over seeing things at all times.
That being said. The Salon I am in is more a studio environment. We only take clients by appointment, and we do all handle cleanliness together.
Salon owners that don't want the responsibility and expense of employing staff have no right to complain that the self employed staff work their schedule as they please. That is the whole point to being a self employed individual. Control of your own work schedule and income.
I'm not giving my opinion, just passing on information from HMRC and advice a solicitor gave me a few years ago when I was having contracts written
Here's an example of a "self employed" person who had an employment tribunal 'Self Employed' Woman can claim Unfair Dismissal says Employment Tribunal. The Glasgow Law Practice - Glasgow Solicitors Blog from The GLP
Have a look at HMRC website for info about employment law and give ACAS a call if you're unsure about anything.
As above, if self employed you do have the right to an ET.
The following is a good basic summary of legal advice for self employed (it refers to hairdressers but applies across the board)-
http://www.hji.co.uk/blogs/2012/05/legal-advice-for-self-employed.html
The following is a good basic summary of legal advice for self employed (it refers to hairdressers but applies across the board)-
http://www.hji.co.uk/blogs/2012/05/legal-advice-for-self-employed.html
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xsammi82x
Well-Known Member
So here is the question.
If you pay for your products, advertising, manage your diary etc...
Why exactly don't you have a salon of your own??
I don't have self employed staff because I "don't want the hassle of paying taxes" I have them because it works better for me in the respect that I have found they work harder and call in sick less than employed staff. This is because if they are not working, they are not earning.
I have built up a brilliant reputation for my salon and staff that work there do get clients and are busy.
I supply products because I want them to use specific ones, I do the advertising so it all matches with my logo and colour scheme and I have spent thousands building and presenting the salon so it draws clients in. I supply tea and coffee making facilities (which includes a coffee machine) as well as help with the cleaning and I am more than happy to take bookings for other therapists.
Are you seriously telling me that it's unreasonable to expect a little something in return like, being available should a walk in occur (which they do!)
Swings and roundabouts anyone??
If you pay for your products, advertising, manage your diary etc...
Why exactly don't you have a salon of your own??
I don't have self employed staff because I "don't want the hassle of paying taxes" I have them because it works better for me in the respect that I have found they work harder and call in sick less than employed staff. This is because if they are not working, they are not earning.
I have built up a brilliant reputation for my salon and staff that work there do get clients and are busy.
I supply products because I want them to use specific ones, I do the advertising so it all matches with my logo and colour scheme and I have spent thousands building and presenting the salon so it draws clients in. I supply tea and coffee making facilities (which includes a coffee machine) as well as help with the cleaning and I am more than happy to take bookings for other therapists.
Are you seriously telling me that it's unreasonable to expect a little something in return like, being available should a walk in occur (which they do!)
Swings and roundabouts anyone??
xsammi82x
Well-Known Member
As a SE person, your are a contractor. If your not doing the job properly or to standard, you are off the job.
Simple
Simple
This is how one of my therapists work, and I find it works well. I have however been warned that my therapists could claim that they are employed, due to the fact I set their hours, pay product cost ect,so could be entitled to holiday pay etc. For me, i prefer my therapists employed, but having recently taken on new staff, and we are still sorting her hours, she is currently self employed. I do not object to paying holiday pay, but the cost of NI and the new pensions when they come in, means that for a small salon, its a massive cost!
Sammi- People don't want the overheads or responsibilty of a salon, so to rent a chair/room/nail desk suits them and their pocket. Just like choosing to rent a home or to buy a property. In doing this, they can earn more money yet don't get holiday/sickpay (and infact can legally choose their own pricelist). And can choose their own hours without having to be mobile, or homebased to do so.
Which in turn helps the salon owner cover their overheads with their rent each week.
If what YOU do works for you and your staff, then great. BUT technically it is not the way being self employed works in our industry.
It doens't hurt to have a mutual agreement/shared work ethic, it is just you can not enforce it.
Xx
Which in turn helps the salon owner cover their overheads with their rent each week.
If what YOU do works for you and your staff, then great. BUT technically it is not the way being self employed works in our industry.
It doens't hurt to have a mutual agreement/shared work ethic, it is just you can not enforce it.
Xx
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If I am honest, when you provide stock, marketing, appointments and want set hours, I wonder why you don't employ people?
Let's say a cut+blow is £30 and takes an hour, and you pay anywhere between £7-£10 per hour, you would make £20 in that hour for employing someone. If you did this x 3 stylists you would earn £60 in one hour and that is basic compaired to colours and without doing a treatment yourself (Yes you have all the overheads aswell)
Same for a nail/beauty salon... Xx
Let's say a cut+blow is £30 and takes an hour, and you pay anywhere between £7-£10 per hour, you would make £20 in that hour for employing someone. If you did this x 3 stylists you would earn £60 in one hour and that is basic compaired to colours and without doing a treatment yourself (Yes you have all the overheads aswell)
Same for a nail/beauty salon... Xx
If you are self-employed, renting a premises for example to run a salon/shop in a shopping centre you are usually obligated as part of your lease to be open certain hours...
If you are self-employed and paying a 'rental' are these 'hours of operation' within your 'rented space' be it a chair, beauty couch or room not then similar as something that can be part of a rental agreement (rather than employment contract) between the salon owner and the self-employed space renter?
If you are self-employed and paying a 'rental' are these 'hours of operation' within your 'rented space' be it a chair, beauty couch or room not then similar as something that can be part of a rental agreement (rather than employment contract) between the salon owner and the self-employed space renter?
NailsXpress
Well-Known Member
Getting back to the post. Just have a chat and see what you can agree between yourselves. If she is not willing to stay until closing time then get a junior or receptionist who can just to clean up and take calls etc for appointments. If this doesn't work EMPLOY someone to take your place to manage the salon when you are not there.
MTHair78
Well-Known Member
I don't have my own salon, because I don't want the responsibility of salon owner. I enjoy coming and going as I please.i contribute to cleaning the salon, sometimes more than the salon owner, as it is also my work space, and I don't want to work in a sty. The entire reason I am a self employed renter in an established salon is the control of my own schedule. That is the point for being self employed to begin with. I also don't take walk ins... I only take clients by appointment. If you want someone available for walk ins, then you need to hire someone on commission who is building their clientele.
Like I said earlier, if I owned my own salon, I would be sure I was there every hour it's open for operation, as that would be MY responsibility as salon owner. I do not want to be tied to the salon every hour of operation, and so I rent my chair...
I am mobile at the moment but looking into renting a space. Why I am chosing to rent rather than own a salon? Simple...I do not have the money to buy a location myself and pay all the utilities and overheads. I can however, afford to pay rent. I don't agree with your statement that we can't be bothered to put the initiative into having your own salon, buy the stock, designing the price lists, doing the advertising, waking and breathing your business, then you should expect to have ground rules such as opening times. I do ALL of those things now and would continue to do so as a renter/SE. SE are their own bosses and are required to do all of the above. It's not that I can't be bothered to own a location, it's that I can not afford to do so.
I don't think it's unreasonable for you to ask your employees to follow your guidlines/regulations. But they are not your employees. You couldn't force them to stay open if they didn't want to. But it sounds like they like the agrangment you have going, so that's great.
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So you employ this person because you dictate their costs and hours worked.
If they are self employed then they can charge more than you do if they want.
Me and the stylist at the salon we rent at agreed on a price list between us, we both charge the same out of choice and that it would be confusing having 3 different lists, but if I wanted I could up mine by £50 per service and that's perfectly fine xoxo
Nails<3
Well-Known Member
You obviously haven't done your research then!
Self employed work just as hard, I am self employed, I do all my own advertising, paid for logos,price lists,banners, business cards, flyers. I am constantly advertising for my own business. I buy all my own products. No one will tell me what hours I must work or how much I charge for my services. That is the role of an employed person not self employed. Self employed have the choice.
I can't afford to rent a whole salon at the moment, not because I don't have the initiative.
You have no right to set ground rules to a self employed person, they pay all their own taxes and NI, if you want to dictate to staff who are self employed then employ them. You have no right to tell someone what to charge, that is their prerogative and not your decision to make.
magentahair
Well-Known Member
You need to get a grip, you cant treat self-employed as employees!
xsammi82x
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE=Nails
Maybe you should read my post again because I ACTUALLY said that self employed people DO work harder!
Maybe you should read my post again because I ACTUALLY said that self employed people DO work harder!
Nails<3
Well-Known Member
xsammi82x
Well-Known Member
In a general response:
I can set ground rules and opening hours. If a contractor doesn't like it, they don't have to carry out any work there.
I started my career with less than no money and I have worked and worked and now I have my own salon that I am very proud of. It is my livelihood and will protect it however I see fit and if that means that there are rules that are in place, then there are rules in place.
If someone is self employed but works somewhere that requires a uniform then they will have to wear one, it's not rocket science.
Please don't tell me about not being able to afford things, I am hardly well off but I am working and working to give my daughter a better future in this bleak world we live in
I can set ground rules and opening hours. If a contractor doesn't like it, they don't have to carry out any work there.
I started my career with less than no money and I have worked and worked and now I have my own salon that I am very proud of. It is my livelihood and will protect it however I see fit and if that means that there are rules that are in place, then there are rules in place.
If someone is self employed but works somewhere that requires a uniform then they will have to wear one, it's not rocket science.
Please don't tell me about not being able to afford things, I am hardly well off but I am working and working to give my daughter a better future in this bleak world we live in
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