Why are there so many 'messers' around?

[geeg]

I think it's too easy to become qualified now. I worked my arse off to be a qualified therapist for 2/3 years and I know people who do it in a matter of weeks! Makes it easier for those people who don't care about our industry to train and hence poor practice, then we get told our systems are poor coz of their shoddy workmanship. I agree with the majority of posters things should be done properly there's no harm in asking what might be silly questions that's what this site is for, like Geeg said as long as the advice is followed.
Also would like to point out that the uk does have decent technicians & therapists

You have a good point bbk about training in particular.

I'm sure you know, that I am not indicating anywhere that the UK does not have great technicians and as Jesse said the problem with 'messers' goes right across the board/pond it seems. The standard of good therapists in the UK is very very high ... it's just too bad there are so many of the 'others' and it seems to be getting worse. Bad training doesn't help, flea bay doesn't help, lots of things don't help.

@ JUICY lUCY ...

just occasionally messing about does help - using Gelbond instead of the Dashing Diva adhesive being a good example.

Using a favourite adhesive is not messing around with the product chemistry of a system. It's just adhesive. If there is a better one, use it. No harm done.
Systems refer to the products that actually work together chemically speaking etc to produce a formulated end result.

QUESTION??
Don't you think it's strange that folks say they distrust LARGE companies who they think are only after their money, but seem to be quite happy TO pay their money over to the really greedy ones, and the down right ROGUES, who offer cheap shoddy classes AND DO NOT MAKE ANYONE FIT TO ENTER THE INDUSTRY?? Now I find that most peculiar.

 

[Vetty]

Don't you think it's strange that folks say they distrust LARGE companies who they think are only after their money, but seem to be quite happy TO pay their money over to the really greedy ones, and the down right ROGUES, who offer cheap shoddy classes AND DO NOT MAKE ANYONE FIT TO ENTER THE INDUSTRY?? Now I find that most peculiar.

Me too! People do seem more likely to believe someone with no proveable teaching qualifications or obvious talent over a big company with a proven reputation.....

Sometimes I'm glad the attitude of some comes out early. It just makes me realise they will never be any good, will fall by the wayside and leave their clients for me to pick up

 

[geeg]

Loving the feed back from so many and thanks so much from all of you. Lots of great thoughts and comments. Wouldn't it be great if it actually had an effect on those it is really meant to reach and the 'penny dropped' for a few ?? :green:

 

[florence2004]

I agree with Geeg too! But I wonder if some of the issue is mis-advised clients who want cheap services. Over here in Calgary, the chop shop industry is alive and well. Recently a couple of girls that I work with came in sporting their new nails that they had had done. Through chatting with them I discovered that it was a faily painful experience to have these nails done, with sore sports on their nails from over filling with an e-file and product touching the skin. I asked them 2 simple questions - did they wash your hands before they started? - No! Why would you pay to have something done that was painful? oh never thought of that!

There are only so many people I can educate when I come in contact with them so what I want to know is how we as professionals can further assist in cleaning up the industry so that people who are not educated correctly, use what ever products they can get their hands on and and lie to their clients about services they are giving can be eradicated?

 

[dee]

this is a good thread,i think a lot of it is
A - people just dont trust what you tell them (they think you are trying to shaft them !)
B - people both clients and techs are so money concious they cut corners ..
C- a lot of people in general dont listen to advice no matter how qualified the person is that give it , lol

 

[Serenity Beauty]

I feel it's very much I'll advised clients, who don't realise the damaging effects of the cheap nail tech's and beauty therapists having these cheap treatments and driving our prices down, in turn then forcing us to contemplate cutting corners! X

 

[toffeepop]

Just a thought......when a distributor tries to convince a tech that something like 'any old lamp' can be used for eg Shellac, shouldn't we be notifying the company, eg CND? I know if I was (eg) CND I wouldn't want my distributors mis-representing or mis-selling or mis-informing customers in this way, as this can be what leads to techs and customers believing we are being ripped off.

At least if the company knows their distributors aren't selling in the way they should be, they can either re-educate said distributors or cease working with them and find distributors who WILL upsell systems in the way they were invented to be used.

Sorry if this causes another controversy, but makes sense to me

 

[Serenity Beauty]

I believe to protect their brands and us professionals, the makers, like bio, CND etc should all be keeping a close eye on their distributors and end users and be prepared to revoke supply! For instance if incorrect information re equipment is supplied, or a salon is offering £15 bio's. This could possibly I'n turn see the end of a company like bio with high product and training prices as we will all be forced to offer £30-50 treatments for £15, we will all end up out of business! And I'n turn these companies will have no one using their products!

I hope I'm making sense!

 

[MrsP]

Geeg - it was exactly this that inspired my post yesterday..."compulsory Shellac training". It doesn't just refer to Shellac but the whole situation. I have so many ladies telling me incredible stories of incompetence. One lady had her nails done by a 'stand in' - who then told her she normally did nails on her mates and wasn't insured! Then proceeded to nail drill her!! At which point she ran a mile!

I am amazed by these so called courses that promise these poor willing people 'instant qualification in a day"!! I have to say - it's taken me ages to learn how to Shellac and Minx to perfection (I am a perfectionist) - so god help me if I was doing enhancements!!! LOL!:green:

My husband has the same issue - he's a qualified management accountant and would you believe - anyone can claim to be an accountant!!!! He's gets well fed up!!

 

[Nataliya]

I agree with Gigi!

There are a lot of ignorance unfortunately in the industry.

Not listening or not reading thoroughly what is being said or written!

I have been trained with almost every nail company through the years. But only one company was there for me as a person and not my money!

I have been taught well, loved, nurtured and supported all the way through! I am very proud to be a part of the industry.

I have spent a lot of money to become who I am and I still have a long way to go! And never for a minute I grudged to spend an extra pound! I worked harder and for longer hours instead! Never moaned. I always wanted it so much that I could truly sell an organ in order to achieve it!

I have disabled husband, who is unable to work due to permanent illness! It's hard for me being a husband! But not for a minute I thought of saving the money by buying cheap crap, substituting lamps or products! Cheating only myself! Again I worked harder!

If you really want to succeed in anything you will find a way get there, but only if you really want it! Through studying, listening and working your ass off! It is not easy and it will never be!

Because the moment I do that I would become no more but a cheap fake, so called professional.

My job is my life! I will stay behind for a client in need, rather than be a smart arse and send her away, where she would get mistreated! No thanks! I would come out to work on my day off if I have a client. As long as I am healthy, have two hands I will be making the difference.

I don't do conveyer belts and i do spend adequate amount of time per client explaining the benefits of treatments and importance of solar oil. I draw them little pictures on how it works and why, which I have learned from Gigi and Doug! This always works on encouraging clients using oil regularly and being loyal!

My hair shivers sometimes when I get clients with disastrous nails, which is why I started a thread about nail makeovers, which hopefully will help everyone not to be ignorant.

If you can't afford decent training with reputable company, do yourself a favour and don't do it at all! Save up and do it once - properly!!! You wont regret it! Read here about wonderful techs going through that!

We don't do fake, false, silicone or acrylic nails! We do nail enhancements with gel or liquid and powder!

Experiment on yourself to prove yourself wrong, but please don't do it on clients! And don't suggest and mislead the newbies! Of you don't know fir sure, keep it to yourself!

No you can't use cheap lamp from hong kong because it will only lead to service breakdown for reasons mentioned here millions of times. So before you ask, use a search facility and read on! Learn to listen!

No you can't use olive, vegetable, baby oil on nails and hope for the miracle. Solar Oil is the king of all oils, and it rocks!

I had a client yesterday who was almost crying after getting nails done up the road from me for half of my price! She was willing to pay any money just to get those mount everests off her beautiful natural nails!

Whoever applied it should be banned from doing nails forever!!!

Soak off colour gel applied in 3 coats, then thick White buff off gel applied in smile line area, finished off with glaze and go! That's 3 different brands mixed on one nail! Come on! Who teaches that!

All the savings, mixtures and substitutes only lead to disappointment and lack of loyal clients. Been there, done that and got a blooming t-shirt! But was lucky enough to be shaken by a bunch of wonderful tutors who taught me well! Thank you guys you rock!

The most important quality of nail professional is LISTENING!!!!

Because if you can't do that properly
how can do anything professionally!

It is not harsh on Gigis behalf it should be an eye-opening thread for many others who not yet learned to listen and learn!

Thanks Gigi for being a goddess!

Geek, you rock!

Rant over I am off to celebrate

Nail designer with a twist

 

[Nataliya]

Geeg - it was exactly this that inspired my post yesterday..."compulsory Shellac training". It doesn't just refer to Shellac but the whole situation. I have so many ladies telling me incredible stories of incompetence. One lady had her nails done by a 'stand in' - who then told her she normally did nails on her mates and wasn't insured! Then proceeded to nail drill her!! At which point she ran a mile!

I am amazed by these so called courses that promise these poor willing people 'instant qualification in a day"!! I have to say - it's taken me ages to learn how to Shellac and Minx to perfection (I am a perfectionist) - so god help me if I was doing enhancements!!! LOL!:green:

My husband has the same issue - he's a qualified management accountant and would you believe - anyone can claim to be an accountant!!!! He's gets well fed up!!

Well done Hun for saying this all! Good on you!

Thank you


Nail designer with a twist

 

[sachi]

It's one thing to purchase 100 Fimos for 5$ from Ebay versus 1 Fimo for 5$ at local distributor to save a few pennies AND QUITE ANOTHER to skip the sanitizing/disinfecting and/or mess about with your L&P by switching things up (hence my question in another thread) AND/OR skipping steps such as proper prep to apply products to speed things up.

This is something I see all the time, now that I know what to look for. Makes me sick.... :cry:

 

[geeg]

I agree with Gigi!

There are a lot of ignorance unfortunately in the industry.

Not listening or not reading thoroughly what is being said or written!

I have been trained with almost every nail company through the years. But only one company was there for me as a person and not my money!

I have been taught well, loved, nurtured and supported all the way through! I am very proud to be a part of the industry.

I have spent a lot of money to become who I am and I still have a long way to go! And never for a minute I grudged to spend an extra pound! I worked harder and for longer hours instead! Never moaned. I always wanted it so much that I could truly sell an organ in order to achieve it!

I have disabled husband, who is unable to work due to permanent illness! It's hard for me being a husband! But not for a minute I thought of saving the money by buying cheap crap, substituting lamps or products! Cheating only myself! Again I worked harder!

If you really want to succeed in anything you will find a way get there, but only if you really want it! Through studying, listening and working your ass off! It is not easy and it will never be!

Because the moment I do that I would become no more but a cheap fake, so called professional.

My job is my life! I will stay behind for a client in need, rather than be a smart arse and send her away, where she would get mistreated! No thanks! I would come out to work on my day off if I have a client. As long as I am healthy, have two hands I will be making the difference.

I don't do conveyer belts and i do spend adequate amount of time per client explaining the benefits of treatments and importance of solar oil. I draw them little pictures on how it works and why, which I have learned from Gigi and Doug! This always works on encouraging clients using oil regularly and being loyal!

My hair shivers sometimes when I get clients with disastrous nails, which is why I started a thread about nail makeovers, which hopefully will help everyone not to be ignorant.

If you can't afford decent training with reputable company, do yourself a favour and don't do it at all! Save up and do it once - properly!!! You wont regret it! Read here about wonderful techs going through that!

We don't do fake, false, silicone or acrylic nails! We do nail enhancements with gel or liquid and powder!

Experiment on yourself to prove yourself wrong, but please don't do it on clients! And don't suggest and mislead the newbies! Of you don't know fir sure, keep it to yourself!

No you can't use cheap lamp from hong kong because it will only lead to service breakdown for reasons mentioned here millions of times. So before you ask, use a search facility and read on! Learn to listen!

No you can't use olive, vegetable, baby oil on nails and hope for the miracle. Solar Oil is the king of all oils, and it rocks!

I had a client yesterday who was almost crying after getting nails done up the road from me for half of my price! She was willing to pay any money just to get those mount everests off her beautiful natural nails!

Whoever applied it should be banned from doing nails forever!!!

Soak off colour gel applied in 3 coats, then thick White buff off gel applied in smile line area, finished off with glaze and go! That's 3 different brands mixed on one nail! Come on! Who teaches that!

All the savings, mixtures and substitutes only lead to disappointment and lack of loyal clients. Been there, done that and got a blooming t-shirt! But was lucky enough to be shaken by a bunch of wonderful tutors who taught me well! Thank you guys you rock!

The most important quality of nail professional is LISTENING!!!!

Because if you can't do that properly
how can do anything professionally!

It is not harsh on Gigis behalf it should be an eye-opening thread for many others who not yet learned to listen and learn!

This is a wonderful post Nat ... I hope people listen. But to listen and to learn and to change takes one very special quality ... Humility ... To be able to admit one is wrong and to turn it around. Most of the 'messers' lack the quality of humility and arrogantly persist! But every once in a while the message gets through to some and then they become one of the best ... Like you. Thanks for sharing your story. X

 

[Anna Lee]

Gosh, didn't we all miss Gigi and her interesting threads...??!! :lol:

I have tried several 'experiments' before. I did it because I am curious and want to find out a bit more about the products and chemicals.

What I DON'T do however, is do it on my clients, advertise it on my service menu OR recommend my findings on this website. I don't do it because I KNOW IT IS WRONG.

There are always posts on here about how angry we get when we come across a client who has been offered 'gels' in liquid and powder form from the discount stores, we are always complaining about how they advertise things and then 'trick' their customers into having something else.
But how are we any different if we advertise Gelish nails using a Shellac base coat? or CND L+P nails using CND powder with NSI monomer? Are we then providing the service that we are advertising? Are we not then the same and 'tricking' our clients too...? Why do we then not get angry with ourselves..?

Picking up on what Samuel said, being ignorant is ok, as long as you genuinely did not know. None of us were born with knowledge so we have to learn as we go along. But CHOOSING to STAY IGNORANT after you have been taught is just plain arrogant and silly. That, we should have no tolorence for.

When it comes to the subject of 'doing it on the cheap'. I agree with Nataylia, if you haven't got the money to buy the correct products for your system, then don't buy it. Work harder and for longer hours and save up for it. How hard is that to understand? Why risk your reputation and work because you are not using the correct products..? It has always been said on here before, if you do the calculations, the difference between high end products and low end products are pennies.

I hope some of the real 'messers' are able to read this thread without thinking that we are just having a dig at them because we are not. We genuinely hope that we can get the message through, that you can listen and learn.

Even if only one person changes because of this thread, it is then one more person that we have helped.

 

[essentia]

Don't get me wrong as in principle I agree wholeheartedly that it is unwise to mix systems. However there have been occasions when it may have been necessary to do so. When the Shellac base coat was in short supply it was deemed 'OK' to use a Gelish base coat instead! Sometimes manufacturers do not make a certain product the standard of another competitor - so yes there are times when it may be that another product has to be used. In an ideal world we would always be able to afford and get the product availability that we desire but sometimes it is unavoidable. I do agree that those trying to cobble a treatment together using a mishmash of products is unacceptable and very misleading to the consumer. I no longer remove other peoples work (in the case of nails) as I do not know what has been put on them and as I deal with natural nails feel it unwise to do so.:hug:​

 

[Cat.]

You will be pleased to know that after reading this i went ahead and bought the shellac lamp even though i had previously been told i didnt need to.. Bt i use all my other systems as a complete system and neva use other products within them and i figured that i was probably bein a bit stoopid not using the correct lamp and that perhaps is why i was having a few problems..
Thankyu for bringin this to my attention hopefully me and my shellac lamp will be very happy
Cat

 

[VHunter]

This is a wonderful post Nat ... I hope people listen. But to listen and to learn and to change takes one very special quality ... Humility ... To be able to admit one is wrong and to turn it around. Most of the 'messers' lack the quality of humility and arrogantly persist! But every once in a while the message gets through to some and then they become one of the best ... Like you. Thanks for sharing your story. X

I confess... years ago, I was a "messer" in some ways, due to the lack of education/poor teacher I had. I didn't know better and wasn't told differently. Then I wasn't happy with my distributors and i wasn't happy with my results and I started googling.... like a mad woman.
TAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAA I landed here. WOW... I felt like a DINGBAT.
I am so glad to have found this site and having been 'straightened out' by my geeky-mates.

Picking up on what Samuel said, being ignorant is ok, as long as you genuinely did not know. None of us were born with knowledge so we have to learn as we go along. But CHOOSING to STAY IGNORANT after you have been taught is just plain arrogant and silly. That, we should have no tolorence for.
Even if only one person changes because of this thread, it is then one more person that we have helped.

That's the part that makes me craziest... those that HAVE been told better and CHOOSE to stay ignorant OR don't bother to try to learn beyond their first 1-3 days of whatever course they took. I don't understand it!! I'm always "thirsting for learning". I want to learn/do EVERYTHING. I understand if someone doesn't want to learn beyond one system. BUT why do they not have the slightest inclination to grow?

Yup, even if one person changes, then something is achieved and time isn't wasted.

 

[Anna Lee]

You will be pleased to know that after reading this i went ahead and bought the shellac lamp even though i had previously been told i didnt need to.. Bt i use all my other systems as a complete system and neva use other products within them and i figured that i was probably bein a bit stoopid not using the correct lamp and that perhaps is why i was having a few problems..
Thankyu for bringin this to my attention hopefully me and my shellac lamp will be very happy
Cat

Absolutely...!! Result..!! Very pleased indeed.... :hug:

The real purpose of Gigi writing this thread is exactly this - for people out there to listen, to learn and to progress. It wasn't meant to be harsh and she certainly was not 'picking on anyone'. Please understand our true intentions and help us to improve on our industry.

Samuel created this website so we have a place where there is an opportunity for us to help each other. We are here to advise, to provide real facts and true inspiration to nail techs all over the world.

But we can't help you if you don't help yourself.

So thank you Cat for listening, for helping yourself so we can help you progress further.
I am sure you and your lamp will be very happy. :lol:

 

[Anna Lee]

However there have been occasions when it may have been necessary to do so. When the Shellac base coat was in short supply it was deemed 'OK' to use a Gelish base coat instead!​

Please, don't get me wrong either just because I had quoted you. I fully understand the good intentions in your post and this is only because you had touched on the subject. :hug:

It was never really deemed 'ok' to use Gelish base coat with Shellac. It has always been said on here that if you do have to use Gelish base coat then it is not classified as a full Shellac service.

In desperate situations however, I understand that you do need to find alternatives to keep your services going.

When CND had a Shellac stock problem, I tried a few alternatives too just in case (although in the end I did not have to use them because I was well stocked up). But the difference is, that although I have found alternatives, I never recommended it on here.

I kept it to myself not because I was selfish, but because I knew it would be the wrong thing to do. I knew that if I recommended it, thousands will follow and it will be against the manufacturer's instructions making Shellac no longer Shellac.

I just was not willing to give out misleading and the wrong information how ever desperate the situation was.​

 

[Deena]

The thing with 'Cheap' products is they really aren't, methinks!

I was in salon services this morning, as it was a VAT free day and I wanted couch roll for my nail table. I like to have a look at the nail section and I'm not sure if my local branch is 'Trade only' yet or not? It certainly wasn't last time I knew for sure.

Anyway, if you compare their systems with the high end products ie cnd, ezflow etc it really is no saving at all. Maybe the crux of the matter might be that we can all go buy these brands and start playing straight away?

Most reputable companies ie cnd simply won't give people a whiff of their wares without the specific training in their use. Maybe that's something to do with wannabe techs and their get rich quick schemes that persistently fail to blossom AND give the industry/dedicated techs such a hard time? It all needs tightening up and regulating!!

Through my 'Day' job <I don't work as a nail tech, but I'm serious about my education, products and skills> I come into contact with people sporting all sorts of $%^&* on their nails. They mostly haven't a clue what it is and, despite being regularly disappointed with what they've purchased, they really think they have no options. There are stacks of 'Techs' out there who are operating businesses on the basis of work that wouldn't see them out of a foundation class.

I have also been to one or two 'Proper' salons where, despite appearing to use reputable products, they STILL skipped essential steps eg proper prep and, I suspect, they are being driven into a corner to compete price/timewise with the cowboys and plain ignorant to make 'Any' money at all?!? :irked: