Disillusioned with the state of the Nail Industry? - here's one for us ALL to debate!

[dobermum]

What would you have the training provider do in this situation?


I will not issue them with a certificate and arrange for them to come back and have a few more days tuition on the next course...until they reach the standard required.

Referal is great. I agree. It is how it should be. But the reality is that education is all about ££££££ and reaching targets. I have worked on NVQ courses and we are not allowed to refer students. It doesn't matter that they are not competent. Retention and attainment figures have to be reached and the 'unspoken', in ALL the colleges I have worked, is that a student will complete the course even if you have to spoon feed the information to them and be 'creative' with their portfolios.

The basic skills, someone mentioned earlier, maths & english, these are absent from many 16 - 19year olds. These students keep me in a job. But I would prefer to see an increase in these basic skills. I have heard gas lecturers arguing because they have a student who can't read and write properly, they believed this student was dangerous in the industry as it would be difficult for them to correctly read an installation booklet for eg. a boiler. Incorrect installation of something like this can blow a house up. They consider a student like this a health & safety risk. I agree but we are still encourage to find this student competent.

So do we say 'come back when you have basic skills' or do we just accept low level students because we are afraid we will be accused of being discriminatory?

Do we blame educators because they have to follow the rules laid down by management? Or do we blame a society that feels it has to offer inclusiveness to all? IMO we have become a society that is scared to offend.

Congratulations on having the guts to start the thread and chance offending someone.

 

[dobermum]

Sorry Izzidoll I obviously didn't do the quote bit quite right. Maybe I need basic skills!

 

[huerta3]

I think the difference here is that you are willing to learn, you are a regular poster on this site and have shown your dedication, qualified or not. Sassy didn't use the word 'shoddy' I think that was me and when I used the word 'shoddy' I meant about the technicians who don't really care about professional values in the industry, but who just bang out nails for the money....there's loads of them inBristol, I'm sure there are where you live too.

This is why I take no offense to what she is saying.
I agree with her, it is just that for a debates sake I am going to view all sides and I feel that you shouldn't be angry with someone who charges less. NSS... well they are just crap, and after I complete my training, until I move to Indy, nails will be a part time job for me and I will charge less reguardless of my skill just to practice and build up and understanding. After I move I will be going to school but am hopefully going to use nails as my sole occupation. I will then base my prices around my competition. I feel her on all she is saying it is just that I think what a tech charges is their call and if another tech can not compete well it's not right to blame the cheaper tech. If you do better work and use higher quality products then you have more to offer and that should vindicate your prices, if it doesn't then you need to come up with a way to get yourself in competition, that or not be mad when someone else does better business than you.

 

[scattyfox]

Great thread Sassy(as always) and ahve to say like the majority of people i agree with what your saying.

So is it the teachers or the education system that is at fault, i would say a little of both, teachers who havent kept their own skills up to date but know how to teach and the education system that needs its retention figures to gain its funding for the next year.

Then their are the tutors who think because they can do nails that they can teach, and as the colleges are desperate for staff and do not really know what theya re looking for they take the one whose beena round the longest in the salon, who is to say that they will make a good teacher, did they always do good nails , did they ahve a good dependable and loyal client base, did they keep their skills updated? All questions that as we gain more knowledge we ask but they are the ones we should be askign in the begining before we even start on courses.

As for the business part, i was lucky and studied accountancy and even then i still didnt comprehend how much knowledge i would need so make a successful business and maybe this should be linked to new business and courses within the college structure. I for one am taking a leaf out of Fionas book and contacting Business link for courses to help me, i cant run a successful business when i dont even know who i am meant to be targeting and learning how to talk to my bank manager with success would be really useful.

thanks for re awakening my thirst again hun x

 

[izzidoll]

Referal is great. I agree. It is how it should be. But the reality is that education is all about ££££££ and reaching targets. I have worked on NVQ courses and we are not allowed to refer students. It doesn't matter that they are not competent. Retention and attainment figures have to be reached and the 'unspoken', in ALL the colleges I have worked, is that a student will complete the course even if you have to spoon feed the information to them and be 'creative' with their portfolios.

.

Having attended a College Course for Artificial Nail Structures (a few years ago) and started in amongst 24 students in a class !!!....and finishing with 6!!.... 2 of whom could still not do a set of nail enhancements safely to save their lives. I felt that Certificates were awarded for Good Attendance.
Therefore I am not surprised by the comments in your post.

But it is really quite shocking when you see it in black and white that Colleges care more about their figures than about the quality of their students work.

I am glad that I work for Creative, and have the option to refer someone on to another course for more training until they reach a standard....and that they can go on to intermediate training courses (skillbuilding) and advanced training (Masters)....(Creative is my only point of reference here as I have not experienced any other training)

Product Companies IMHO definitely provide a better Education....as their reputation can depend on the standard of technician using their product....and therefore their profits!. After all it is a business.

So is it the Colleges that need to change...by updating their syllabuses and making it a pass or fail course?...and maybe sending their Educators for training with a Product company to see the standards they should be reaching...would that improve standards?

 

[geeg]

Morning Geeks ... well I have managed to read all up to page 10 but that is my limit thismorning, so if my reply is redundant, then I apologize.

If I were starting out today in the nail business, and wanting to attract the people who have high standards and appreciate quality, here is what I would do. I would have a card or literature printed that said this:

I am a nail technician of quality and excellence.
I am well educated and skilled at my job.
I do nails that are beautiful and long lasting.
I specialise in making nails that look real and naturally your own …
I do not make nails that look false and unnatural.
I practise good sanitation and work safely always.
I guarantee the health and beauty of your natural nails at all times.

If you are a person that appreciates quality and professionalism from your nail artist then please call Gigi Rouse on 123 456 7890

What I would not do is ‘flog a dead horse’ and spend hours explaining to clients, that may or may not care, about products, chemicals, lack of education of other nail techs, lack of standards of other nail techs … bla bla bla.

What I would not do is spend my time constantly worrying about the lack of standards in others; the lack of skill of others; the NSS down the road; the ‘kitchen mafia’ or ‘ironing board brigade’ who ‘play’ around doing nails they are satisfied with because they know no better; the ladies who DIY with products from Ebay or the local pharmacy.

Forget it and put your energy into attracting the clients YOU want.

Apart from a very few persons who might, it is YOU who should blow your own trumpet and then the hardest part ….

None of us can expect peoples respect .. it must be earned by our example.

You’d better to be able to deliver and over-deliver on your promises.

As to education standards … it is simply impossible to MAKE people’s skills or education standard … why? … because, unfortunately what gets in the way are the people.

People are not machines. We see with different eyes and one person’s perfect nail is not another’s. One person’s idea of what is adequate hygiene is not another’s. One person’s teaching skills are better than another’s etc. It is possible to write the standards or what we want to see as the standards, but it is impossible to implement it.

In my many years experience in dealing with colleges I found that they will take whoever they can get to teach nails for one simple reason. They have a demand for nail classes and they want the money filling them will generate. The nail tech down the road will do (good or bad and with or without a teaching certificate) … and by the way, a teaching certificate does not make one a great teacher!!! Great teachers are BORN not made. It is the luck of the draw what ever college you attend.

Greed is also one of the reasons we face the challenges we face today as nail technicians. So many nail distributors will sell their products to anyone at all, trained or untrained … and to me that is one of the main reasons we are seeing what we are seeing; greed, pure and simple.

Products would not be readily available if the people who distribute them were behaving with integrity and not grabbing at every opportunity to sell products to all and sundry.

Great thread and great points made by many.

 

[Marlise]

izzidoll
Referal is great. I agree. It is how it should be. But the reality is that education is all about ££££££ and reaching targets. I have worked on NVQ courses and we are not allowed to refer students. It doesn't matter that they are not competent. Retention and attainment figures have to be reached and the 'unspoken', in ALL the colleges I have worked, is that a student will complete the course even if you have to spoon feed the information to them and be 'creative' with their portfolios.

Ain't that the truth !

When I was at college doing my beauty courses, our tutor told us the same and made not secret about it.

She wasn't happy with it, but there were some students that didn't give a damn and she literally had to sit with them at every class and almost do all the work for them !

This really ticked me off as the students who were pulling their own weight and who were putting the time and effort in where neglected because they never got the attention from her that they deserved because she was too busy trying to help the lazy so and so's !

I wrote a letter to the Principal and got no response. When I chased it I was told that it would not be fair if some students passed and others didn't. Just think how the poor people would feel if we failed them. &*^%$*&^ !!! You can imagine how angry I was.

The reason why I passed and some of the other students is because we worked for it. We did all our course work and did it well, we performed well in class, we listened to what was being said to us, we did our research and studying etc. THAT'S WHY WE PASSED because we put the work and effort in ! Not because someone held our hand.


Marlise

 

[oey]

What would you have the training provider do in this situation?

Referal is great. I agree. It is how it should be. But the reality is that education is all about ££££££ and reaching targets. I have worked on NVQ courses and we are not allowed to refer students. It doesn't matter that they are not competent. Retention and attainment figures have to be reached and the 'unspoken', in ALL the colleges I have worked, is that a student will complete the course even if you have to spoon feed the information to them and be 'creative' with their portfolios.


Congratulations on having the guts to start the thread and chance offending someone.

Well - this to me is where the root of the problem lies.

Until this situation of the NVQ system changes then we will not get anywhere. I have often many times during my training suspected that there is no such thing as a "fail or refer" on a persons skills. Now, we have actually got some kindly and greatfully admit that this is the case!

What hope do we have in this industry if this is what the colleges are having to churn out! It beggars belief!

And some local governments want us all to have NVQs to be able to continue and trade in this industry - WHAT A JOKE!

 

[hekate01]

I was so happy when i passed now i know the truth i feel deflated, i know i worked hard for it and all my homework, i was hoping others that messed about every lesson wouldn't get to pass as they didn't deserve it. PC or not what about our feelings knowing we sweated blood guts and tears for our pass!! screw their feelings.x:cry:

 

[oey]

I was so happy when i passed now i know the truth i feel deflated, i know i worked hard for it and all my homework, i was hoping others that messed about every lesson wouldn't get to pass as they didn't deserve it. PC or not what about our feelings knowing we sweated blood guts and tears for our pass!! screw their feelings.x:cry:

I am with you on this one!

After reading some of the posts on here about NVQs I now feel ashamed that I have a NVQ qualification, which it seams that everybody gets as long as they attend that course - now matter how good their skills are!

 

[gemsie1983]

After reading some of the posts on here about NVQs I now feel ashamed that I have a NVQ qualification, which it seams that everybody gets as long as they attend that course - now matter how good their skills are!

You should never feel ashamed of your qualification if you know you worked hard and put in 110% :hug:

The ones that should be ashamed are the people that didn't put in the effort just bummed along!

 

[jac extreme]

I am with you on this one!

After reading some of the posts on here about NVQs I now feel ashamed that I have a NVQ qualification, which it seams that everybody gets as long as they attend that course - now matter how good their skills are!

I think its important to ask yourself
"Do I feel that I learnt all I need to know from my training"
If not then go on and learn more, it doesn't mean you acomplished nothing, just think of it more as a stepping stone to the next level of training.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

This is why I take no offense to what she is saying.
I agree with her, it is just that for a debates sake I am going to view all sides and I feel that you shouldn't be angry with someone who charges less. NSS... well they are just crap, and after I complete my training, until I move to Indy, nails will be a part time job for me and I will charge less reguardless of my skill just to practice and build up and understanding. After I move I will be going to school but am hopefully going to use nails as my sole occupation. I will then base my prices around my competition. I feel her on all she is saying it is just that I think what a tech charges is their call and if another tech can not compete well it's not right to blame the cheaper tech. If you do better work and use higher quality products then you have more to offer and that should vindicate your prices, if it doesn't then you need to come up with a way to get yourself in competition, that or not be mad when someone else does better business than you.

But this is my whole point!! If you are good at what you do then charge the correct amount for your craft! Gosh my mind is going over board with :grr: !!! LOL!

Okay let me word it in another way ... Forget the clients perception that nails are nails, there's no skill and they want it quick and cheap - let's take this from a tech's point of view, heck from a business minded point of view.

Firstly those who have no passion and don't care about the standards they produce are probably the most damaging to ANY industry; they are rip off merchants who prey on people's insecurities and ignorance. These people are damaging to any industry, but as we know the best form of advertising is word of mouth. This sort of person will not get that business and will move onto the next BIG thing when they get bored of it all.

What gets my dander up are those who lack the business skills to be self employed, and let's face it as soon as you start to charge you are working for yourself, hobby or not ... so watch out that the tax man doesn't knock on your door one day! Those that charge cheap because they neither have the skill nor the inclination will disappear into obscurity, bloody annoying while they are around but they won't be there for long, I've seen it all too often even in my short time in nailing! Those that are good then value your worth and value the industry that's all I am asking!

Yes, a mobile or home based salon may be able to charge a LITTLE less than the main salons, but to undercut by up to 2/3rds!!! WHY? It makes no sense, you are buying business! You are effectively paying your clients to have their nails done. That's where I am coming from.

I am all for competition, it keeps you focussed, but business suicide becaue you really don't need the money ... take up knitting!

(BTW before someone says I am anti-knitting I am a very skilled knitter - I make a mean aran sweater!!!!)

 

[geeg]

I think its important to ask yourself
"Do I feel that I learnt all I need to know from my training"
If not then go on and learn more, it doesn't mean you accomplished nothing, just think of it more as a stepping stone to the next level of training.

It is also important to note that the NVQ supports the standards that we feel are the MINIMUM requirement to start to do nails ... not the be all and end all of nail knowledge .... just the very start.

Yes, an achievement for sure if you meet all the standards, but only the tip of the iceberg as far as knowledge goes and only the skills that help you work safely .. not necessarily beautifully.

There are no standards for beauty within the NVQ.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

Firstly to Izzi, I apologise! My question was a flippant one designed to get a response. :green: However that said, I have seen someone on here who clearly shouldn't be in a customer facing industry never mind their skills at nails, say they are going to give up. To me the kindest thing was to wish them well in whatever they moved onto. But well meaning geeks said they shouldn't give up and keep plodding at it! Why? They aren't happy in what they are doing and were just pouring good money at bad. So if someone said to you, do you think I have it to cut the mustard and they didn't, would any of you hand them the knife or show them the door?

Referal is great. I agree. It is how it should be. But the reality is that education is all about ££££££ and reaching targets. I have worked on NVQ courses and we are not allowed to refer students. It doesn't matter that they are not competent. Retention and attainment figures have to be reached and the 'unspoken', in ALL the colleges I have worked, is that a student will complete the course even if you have to spoon feed the information to them and be 'creative' with their portfolios.

This has always been my opinion of the NVQ system, funnily enough I got neg repped a few years back because I dared to say that NVQ's are a waste of time as you cannot fail.

I have an NVQ level 2 in cosmetic makeup, it's taken me a year to get the certificate out of the envelope and add it to my others on the wall as it has no personal value to me. I was signed competent for an eyelash perm that I did when the tutor was off sick - she signed it off! We didn't even learn about makeup, and when we were assessed she passed stuff that she found a lot of fault in.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

Forget it and put your energy into attracting the clients YOU want.

Apart from a very few persons who might, it is YOU who should blow your own trumpet ….

This is very true, and if we all did it then the word would get around and raise the expectations of the clients. That's why I always say the NSS aren't competition they are the opposition. Don't compete with them you never will, oppose them, counteract them, offer a service that they can't ... not that difficult really!


Funnily enough I do have similar bullet points on my website, and it's worked well for me ...

We do sanitize implements and hands between clients
We do offer a full consultation process to assess your nails & lifestyle
We do produce a thin natural looking enhancement
We do offer first class customer service
We do offer full after care advice
We do regularly attend further training to further our skills
We do offer sympathetic support to nail biters

We don't make your cuticles bleed
We don't over file your nails causing friction burns
We don't harm or damage your natural nails
We don't produce thick, ugly, bumpy extensions

It's the don'ts that work just as well as the do's. People suddenly realise that having your nails done shouldn't be painful and realise there is a choice!​

 

[joe90]

Greed is also one of the reasons we face the challenges we face today as nail technicians. So many nail distributors will sell their products to anyone at all, trained or untrained … and to me that is one of the main reasons we are seeing what we are seeing; greed, pure and simple.

Products would not be readily available if the people who distribute them were behaving with integrity and not grabbing at every opportunity to sell products to all and sundry.

Great thread and great points made by many.

This was exactly my point earlier, but maybe not quite so eloquently put!
There are many distributors out there who will and do sell without proof of your qualifications.

 

[bling nails]

Greed is also one of the reasons we face the challenges we face today as nail technicians. So many nail distributors will sell their products to anyone at all, trained or untrained … and to me that is one of the main reasons we are seeing what we are seeing; greed, pure and simple.

Products would not be readily available if the people who distribute them were behaving with integrity and not grabbing at every opportunity to sell products to all and sundry.

Great thread and great points made by many.

I agree, many training companys will give certificates to say they're passed! I've seen it being done, some who attend the training just don't have the skill or the passion to do nails, but yet the company still pass them, why? Like Sassi said in an earlier thread, When training with Alessandro, if they can see you dont have the skill, they wont pass you, until you have more training & pratice, & wont let you order their products until you do & if you do.

You dont sit a GCSE exam, write all the wrong answers and still get certified??! If you fail GCSE's at school, you attend futher education at college, sixth form, or University until you achieve a pass.
Surely, training companies should have this rule too? Seems not!! Shame!

 

[gemsie1983]

You dont sit a GCSE exam, write all the wrong answers and still get certified??! If you fail GCSE's at school, you attend futher education at college, sixth form, or University until you achieve a pass.
Surely, training companies should have this rule too? Seems not!! Shame!

Thing is these places are regulated by OFSTED which is really what the Nail Industry need, where prospective students can go on to a training establishments website and make their own choices but not a 'sales patter'

 

[Mani-fique!]

Well after reading page after page of this very interesting thread I must say I am impressed with the maturity that has been maintained throughout and that it has not turned into a slanging match!

I've been hesitant to add my voice not only because I don't know what to add to the already very apt comments but also because I'm ashamed at how I've given up since my training with Creative Nail Design in 2004 and not pushed myself enough.

This has been due to being a total utter perfectionist of the worst kind, worst being that I am so totally dedicated to high standards that its made me give up believing I could never be good enough.

Also working by myself not being able to get work in a salon because of lack of experience etc doesn't help. I want to be excellent at what I do but sometimes it feels such an upward fight to what with needing funds for more training, getting the experience but feeling you need the support so would like to work in a salon but noone will take you on...... the vicious circle goes on

However this thread has come at a rock bottom time for me as I've been trying to get an office job to help with money but noone will take me on as I've been out of work for too long (3yrs) and don't have enough experience compared to other applicants.

This has got me thinking again and I just need to figure out how to get myself going again.

What I've got from this thread is that effort after continuous effort, skill, attention to detail, determination to be professional and the best, business sense and self belief are all vital if we are to raise ourselves above the rotten apples of the nail industry.

All I can say is boy its tough and I so don't want to be one that has fallen by the wayside. So many on here have shown it does reap results if you keep at it.

Regulation is definately needed to not only filter out the nss but also to support those of us who struggle to get there because of the influence of nss on the general public.