Dismissing an Employee - trouble ahead

[debs69]

Hi, I'm moaning on again about my fav subject ! I sacked my junior a month ago and the next day took her back on cos she talked me into it. Anyway today I had good reason to let her go again and because I didn't want to talk to her ( in case she sweet talked me again ) I got my hubby to ring her and do it. Later I got a call from her mom saying it was wrong of me to get the husband to do it over the phone ( which I do know is underhand ) and that she is coming to the shop tomorrow with her daughter so I can sack her to her face ! She said that because I EMPLOYED HER, I MUST THEN SACK HER NOT MY HUBBY, but.... she worked for us as a couple so why, I ask, can't he sack her ? is there any truth in this because I have never heard about this before ?
I'm worried about tomorrow now I wish I had a big burley bouncer to look out for me, I just hope the whole family don't come with her, got a feeling they will.

 

[julesgems]

Hiya

What an awful situation for you! Can you get your hubby to be there with you for moral support?

 

[loubylou]

it has nothing to do with her mum, her mum didn't work for you,
this is called harassment,
i would phone the police this evening and ask for their advise, at least then they will be aware of the situation should her mum or family cause any trouble tomorrow hth

 

[debs69]

He would come in with me but He had last week off work, and the week before that had to leave work on wednesday cos he had got the salon stock in his car, and his boss wasn't too happy with him !!
He has said he'd come tomorrow but I've said no cos what if his work then sack him ?
but never mind I'm sure I'll cope, one of my stylists is quite looking forward to it as she loves trouble ?!?!?!? eeeeeeeeek, there's always the police!

 

[debs69]

it has nothing to do with her mum, her mum didn't work for you,
this is called harassment,
i would phone the police this evening and ask for their advise, at least then they will be aware of the situation should her mum or family cause any trouble tomorrow hth

thanx, I think I shall do that x

 

[Sassy Hassy]

To be honest I have some sympathy for the other girl. Sorry i know it's not want you want to hear, but come on, put yourself in her shoes, how would you feel if you got a phone call to tell you you had the sack? You need to go in there, be firm and just confirm that she has been dismissed and the reasons why if you need to. You do not need to get into any other conversation. Just ask her that as she is no longer an employee that she must leave the premises immediately. If she, or the mother, want confrontation then don't give them the satisfaction. Stay calm and professional and ask her to leave. If she won't then just calmly say that if she does not leave then you will call the police.

Handling such grievances and matters is never easy, but sadly it is part and parcel of being an employer. good luck :hug:

 

[michelle g]

If your husband is part of the hiring and firing of the company then
yes he can sack her.
I would put it in writing and pop it through her door.
and make it clear in the letter that there is no more to be said so there
will be no need for them to come into the salon.
Then if they come in just call the police.
Hope it all goes o.k.

 

[debs69]

thanx for all your thoughts x

 

[thg]

she's intimidating you, and your letting her do it, she knows your going to worry over all this,
You must take the upper hand.
I'd write a letter of dismissal , and when the mother comes in with whoever, hand it to the employee, tell her your not willing to discuss, your x employees situation, as it's between you and her. don't even get into a conversation with the woman. stick to your guns, do not converse with her, because the minute you do that, it's giving her the oppotunity to rant and rave. if she does go's on just keep repeating "I'm sorry I'm not prepared to speak with you on this matter. all you need to know is in the letter." and end it.
If further trouble erupts phone the fuzzzzz.
Well that's how i would handle it. hth good luck thg

 

[Zingara]

You also need to be aware that the only legal reason for sacking someone without going through a formal disciplinary system (first verbal warning, second verbal warning, first written warning etc) is Gross Misconduct.

What is gross misconduct? | Employment Tribunal Claims

and if you can't justify this in a sound way, she may well have cause for an issue. Sounds extreme but the law strives to protect employees as much as possible nowadays, as often they are the ones who are mistreated (I don't imagine that you've mistreated her in any way, but you need to be aware of the legalities....they count across the board!)

Just thought it worth a read as you may prefer to be prepared with your facts, so you can counter any claims they bring against you.

 

[hippy-chick]

you also don't want this to spill over into your salon, does not look good!
Perhaps ring her and tell her what time you can see her, say you will have it all written in a letter which you will hand over to her, and that you will only be able to allocate 10 minutes to the situation.

You need to take control of this situation.

think how good you will feel once you have done this.

reiterate to her that you and your husband are entitled to do the hiring and firing.

 

[debs69]

This site is so great, you have all been really helpful
thankyou

 

[beautyseeker]

I'd go with what thg says hun, it makes a lot of sense.

Good luck.

:hug:

 

[Missy G]

I cant give you any advice, as Ive never been an employer and had to get rid of a member of staff, so I wouldnt know my rights,I just wanted to wish you the best of luck when she comes in ,and lets us know tomorrow how it goes.:hug:

 

['chelle]

I can see two sides to this, but to be honest I cant blame the girls mum one bit. I'm also shocked at some of the replies on this thread from people giving an "oh poor you" reply, when in all honesty I think this situation is your own doing and is not helped by those sorts of replies.

Perhaps the mums behaviour could be construed as harrassment or intimidation, but if my daughter was sacked in the same appalling way I would probably do the same, and I'm sure if people were honest they would do the same too. Its true that its nothing to do with the mum, but the fact is that this girl has been sacked in an inappropriate way, and if mum brings her to the salon to be sacked to her face, perhaps she's giving you an opportunity to do the right thing. There's no reason why it has to be conducted in the open view of clients, surely it can be dealt with in an office or back room, and I honestly think that if you are a salon proprieter that you need to address the fact that you feel it necessary to get your husband to do the firing in case you get talked out of it.

If your husband is a part and parcel of your business with responsibility for hiring and firing, he is entitled to sack her within legal constraints, but the manner in which he did it was wrong. In the long run you could just be setting yourself up for a fall as this girl could well make a claim against you at the Employment Tribunal if you havent handled her dismissal in the appropriate manner.

To be honest I think the damage has been done and that you need to implement a damage limitation exercise now. Perhaps your junior has been sacked for very good reasons, and maybe if she's young and naive she wont think about taking action against you, but it sounds like mum has a bit more savvy and she may push the girl to make a tribunal claim. The Tribunal wont concern themselves with the reason she was fired, only the manner in which it was done. I think you need to try and reason with mum and daughter now and explain why she is fired whilst making sure that things stay amicable between you (or as amicable as they can be under the circumstances!)

I'm honestly not having a go, only saying it how I see it

 

[izzidoll]

If I were you I would make sure you get some legal advice about employment law, bacause as Zingara says it is not so easy to just sack an employee.
There is quite a strict criteria for this, verbal warnings, written warnings and Disciplinary hearings etc.
If you are a member of a Small Business Group maybe they will have access to an employment lawyer who can keep you right. If you are not a member of such a group I would look into it for the future.

Employment law is a minefield, and I think you do need some help with it.

 

[Blue Rose]

If she has been with you for less than a year you can dismiss her without the formal approach of verbal warnings, written ones etc UNLESS it has something to do with race, sex, pregnancy which are then deemed automatic unfair dismissals.

If she has been with you for more than a year & you didn't follow correct procedure then it is an an unfair dismissal, regardless of whether you had good grounds or not.

Having to dismiss someone is never an easy task but to do it over the phone is very much the wimps way out (especially when getting someone else to do it).

Maybe your junior had good reason to be sacked but it should have been done face to face. All it's done has leave a bad taste in everyones mouth. (a bit like being dumped by a boyfriend by phone/text - it's not very nice).

I handled a sacking badly myself years ago & ended up at a tribunal. It made me learn the hard & expensive way though to be as nice as possible & follow procedure if need be when getting rid.

 

[stoney]

If I were you I would make sure you get some legal advise about employment law, bacause as Zingara says it is not so easy to just sack an employee.
There is quite a strict criteria for this, verbal warnings, written warnings and Disciplinary hearings etc.
If you are a member of a Small Business Group maybe they will have access to an employment lawyer who can keep you right. If you are not a member of such a group I would look into it for the future.

Employment law is a minefield, and I think you do need some help with it.

This is such good advice, honestly Izzi is right. Employment law is an absolute minefield (as is Tax! lol). I joined the federation of small businesses to safeguard myself against situations just like this.

I sincerely hope this situation woks out for you, but please take Izzi's advice, you'll be glad you did.

 

[Zingara]

If she has been with you for less than a year you can dismiss her without the formal approach of verbal warnings, written ones etc UNLESS it has something to do with race, sex, pregnancy which are then deemed automatic unfair dismissals.

.

100% correct, but if she has worked there for over a month she still has to be given a weeks notice, unless her agreed contract of employment states something different.

 

[Susie H]

What a nasty position to find your self in. Well looking at the clock it is probably over and done with now.
For future ref though and for others in your position.
Your business partner is perfectly entitled to sack an employee and your employee's mother not only has nothing to do with it but under the data protection act, it is against the law for you to discuss your reasons with her mother or anyone else. She can discuss it with her mother but not you unless she puts it in writing to you.
You are also entitled to sack her over the phone so as to avoid a ruckus on your premises and you are entitled to deny her access to the premises after she has been sacked for the same reason.
Yes you do have to be careful but when you rehired her it should, and I think it was on the understanding that this was her last chance, i.e she was on her final warning.
So no she has no comeback.
Finally when her mother called last night you should have called the police, so as to have an incident number just in case she kicks of in your shop.
Given the option I think I would have kept the door locked with a member of staff at the door to welcome clients in as they arrived. It is so much easier to keep someone out then it is to remove them.
What the hell this girls mother thought this was going to achieve is beyond me. If she hadn't spoiled her child in the first place, her attitude would be better and she wouldn't need mummy to keep her jobs for her.