Doug Schoon speaks out

[geeg]

Perhaps some interesting points for discussion?

Doug always hits the nail on the head! Proper no nonsense truth.

Is it time for all of us to stop generalising and perhaps face the truth.

We should drop the NSS term altogether as it is meaningless the way it is used. There are nail bars, hobby techs, salons, Mobile technicians and cowbows/girls; there are good and bad technicians in every one of these groups.

From Doug Schoon
Let’s clear something up! It’s not just nail bars or non-standard salons that are damaging client's nails. I've been in high end salons and watched nail technicians over file the nail plate. I’ve seen top educators for major companies, over file the nail plates. Go to a trade show and watch the nail demos, and you’ll see this happen all the time. Some manufacturers video demostrate techniques that encourage over filing the nail plate. This is all too common problem in our industry. I’d venture to guess that a significant percentage of all nail techs around the world are prone to using overly aggressive filing techniques. And I guess that many of you reading this post, also over file the nail plate.

As an industry, we got to move past blaming non-standard salons and begin to realize this is a COMMON problem in the nail industry, which means huge number of nail techs (if not most nail techs) are improperly filing and/or removing nail coatings. Sure, things were much worse in the 80’s and 90s and this industry has made great strides in the last ten years. Still, the nail industry has a long way to go. Blaming some nail techs for what many nail techs regularly do will NOT solve this common problem.

The solutions start with each of you. Nail techs should NOT be removing layers of the natural nail and when coatings are removed- there should be no nail damage. Responsible companies should NOT be teaching potentially damaging techniques which encourage over filing of the nail plate. If your client's nails show signs of nail damage, you need to look at your own techniques and not blame the products. Most of this nail damage is the caused by the nail professional, not the products.

 

[Crystal colleen]

I completely agree with this totally.The problems are across the board not one specific salon type.

I also think that a fantastic nail tech like yourself Gigi could use any product and the nails look beautiful with no damage to the natural nail what so ever.it's all about technique and how your prepping nails which is something I learned along the way and with the help of your book, SG oh and (stalking you):lol::lol::lol: on here reading your replys.

Great snippet of info Gigi and Doug.x

 

[geeg]

Thank you crystal that is wonderful for me to hear. I have always advocated the health of the natural nails first and foremost .. the proof is in the pudding as they say because none of my enhancement clients (who after years of wearing Retention+ Liquid & powder) have had a problem wearing Shellac straight after removal. I have only allowed about 6 or so to do it as the others NEED enhancements.

There is all this nonsense talked about gel being so much stronger than Shellac and it is so untrue ... the difference in strength is in the foundation underneath the Shellac or the gel or the polish or the enhancements; in other words, the natural nail health is what determines whether one will be a good wearer or have a few problems during growing out which can be overcome with time and care.

 

[elmojo]

I'm going to put my hands up and say I have over filed at times :Scared:

I could blame many things for this, but mainly it's because I'm in a bad light, filing lift (I rarely get clients with lifting so I think it's something I need to work on for when I do) or I'm not concentrating properly. Or all three. I'd like to make it clear that it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen very occasionally. It never happens when I use Gelish, only when I'm doing a rebalance with gel.

I don't think I've ever caused any major damage but I have seen little pink patches on the nail in places the times I have been guilty of over-filing.

It's something I am working on I promise. I'm hoping this doesn't make me a bad nail tech and just an honest one :o

 

[Maz101]

This is why I love shellac and brisa lite as no risk of this with their pep and being careful when infilling means no risk.

 

[gemforster]

I agree it does get tricky when buffing the gel off and you get down to the last thin layer and I'm guilty of over filing my own nails as I get distracted very easily, so far I havent done it on a client but probs coz I tend to leave a very thin layer (maybe thicker than it should be) but rather that than overfile I guess.

 

[Crystal colleen]

Thank you crystal that is wonderful for me to hear. I have always advocated the health of the natural nails first and foremost .. the proof is in the pudding as they say because none of my enhancement clients (who after years of wearing Retention+ Liquid & powder) have had a problem wearing Shellac straight after removal. I have only allowed about 6 or so to do it as the others NEED enhancements.

There is all this nonsense talked about gel being so much stronger than Shellac and it is so untrue ... the difference in strength is in the foundation underneath the Shellac or the gel or the polish or the enhancements; in other words, the natural nail health is what determines whether one will be a good wearer or have a few problems during growing out which can be overcome with time and care.

I can say that when I started out I hardly did anyone's nails only my own and prob 5 sets on other people for a whole year.I didnt have anyone to practice on only my own nails.In the first few months i defiantly over filed my nails without question and being a bad nail biter at the time made things worse all my own doing but I soon learned.I then after 5 months of wearing enhancements along with the help I mentioned in my above post I ended up with strong long nails when I took the enhancements off and it was purely because I was doing things properly.

Like you always say perfect practice makes perfect and learning the right way not the wrong way because if it's the wrong way you will encounter problems with what ever system you use no matter what it is.

Shellac is a prime example of excellence and unless those nails are in good condition you will encounter problems but in theory we as professionals should be getting those nails in tip top condition before carrying out such services.A few weeks of nurturing and thinking ahead ie B Light anyone now can have nice nails but we have to along with the client put our work in to get the best results.x

 

[geeg]

I think the last paragraph is particularly pertinent especially as there has just been another thread posted this morning re nail buffing and whether it is damaging or not. Almost everyone is doing it .... No one got anything to say?

 

[Belle Vie]

I'm very lucky in that this hasn't affected me too much at all. I started a couple of years ago using Bio Sculpture which required no buffing to the natural nail and have since moved on to Shellac and Brisa Lite which are the same.

I do see an awful lot of new clients with over filed nail plates and paper thin nails, lots of them are surprised when I skip out this step but they all love it and those that stick with regular treatments and aftercare have fantastic results and lovely strong nails a few months down the line. However, the poor condition that some have, mean that sometimes they struggle to get their UV colours to go the distance and give up thinking that the product just doesn't work for them - I'm seeing better results since introducing Brisa Lite.

I think there seems to be lots of confusion over file and buffer grits and which should be used for which purpose

 

[Claire@OBNMK]

Interesting read.

Before i started my Nail adventure i too was practising on myself then 3/4 months down the line (xmas time) I noticed the free edge of my nails were feeling really thin and i really panicked, since then I've been regularly using cuticle oil (as i didn't before), wearing gloves whilst cleaning, and have now learnt how to apply and remove properly (i know there is debate on the to buff not to buff with gel polishes) but since xmas I've been looking afer my nails and they are really strong again and I'm really chuffed!!


Thanks geeg for the post x

 

[Claire@OBNMK]

I'm very lucky in that this hasn't affected me too much at all. I started a couple of years ago using Bio Sculpture which required no buffing to the natural nail and have since moved on to Shellac and Brisa Lite which are the same.

I do see an awful lot of new clients with over filed nail plates and paper thin nails, lots of them are surprised when I skip out this step but they all love it and those that stick with regular treatments and aftercare have fantastic results and lovely strong nails a few months down the line. However, the poor condition that some have, mean that sometimes they struggle to get their UV colours to go the distance and give up thinking that the product just doesn't work for them - I'm seeing better results since introducing Brisa Lite.

I think there seems to be lots of confusion over file and buffer grits and which should be used for which purpose

Good point this could be an issue especially with newbies, I find the grit numbers a bit confusing, in time I'll get used to it.

 

[x Fee x]

From my experiences at college, I feel a lot of this damage also comes from learners and newbies that haven't been taught to, or can't be bothered to blend tips correctly.

Using the correct grit abrasive and only on the plastic tips seems a difficult concept for some. I currently have extreme damage to my nail plates from students practising a new set on me every week and thinking it's okay to use a 150 grit abrasive repeatedly to 'scrub' over the whole nail until the tip blends in, and then still 'etch' the nail after.

It's frightening that once they leave the course this will be their regular practise

 

[lucyboo]

On my college course I had my nail plate file through until it bled & the girl got passed in her course!!!
I've over filed in the past & my own nails have suffered due to me picking product off. They are in the way to recovery now & after 4 weeks & my now 3rd application of shellac and keeping them short they feel much better!!
I will be ordering the Brisa light to use alongside shellac

Sent from my GT-N7000 using SalonGeek

 

[Rinn]

I think all of us were guilty of over-zealous filing of hard gels/L&P or removal of uv colour coats in the beginning.But you should learn from your mistakes.If you don't then it's partly down to lazy/sloppy work but mostly down to ignorance.


You have to know you need to improve and want to be better/ the best.

Some techs don't care, it's just about the money.

My competition can turn out a set of gels in 30 minutes.. She is destroying not only her clients nails but her reputation at the same time .

Ongoing education... .it should be compulsary.

 

[izzidoll]

When I first started doing nails, I trained in a cheap no ones ever heard of brand with a private trainer who just printed off Certificates from her home computer. I was taught to etch the nail with a 100 grit file, this procedure was described to me as being similar to sanding down gloss paintwork before applying a new coat every part of the nail had to be etched, then an acid primer was carefully applied before the acrylic.

My trainer gave me a job in her Salon where we used CND....but we used the same methods etching and priming!

I did further training with CND and learned to remove shine from the nail, no more etching and no more primer or at least an acid free one,as our products had evolved and improved.
Since then and later as a CND Educator I have 'removed shine' from nail plates prior to applying L&P and taught many techs to do this....I have even been present in lectures by Doug Schoon where this was advocated. I have also done this with other systems I moved on to.
Removing shine is buffing, is it not? With a 240 grit buffer In the direction of nail growth and done properly it should only remove the very topmost layers of the nail.
I know I am talking L&P here not Gel/Power polish, but I do think that this needs clarified that CND as part of their training programmes advocate the removal of shine from the nail plate.
Yes with Shellac and Brisa Lite this is no longer the case, but I don't think we need to demonise techs who are still following the proper protocols for applying L&P and removing shine...buffing....the nail plate.

Of course If Doug and the CND R&D team can produce systems like BL and Shellac that don't require buffing of the nail, then they must be working on a similar L&P system that requires no buffing.......it is the next natural progression and evolution of our Industry.

Now doubt CND will be the first to bring this to market, and all of this no buffing of the nail and talk of the damage we do is a prelude to this
But evolution is a slow process and I don't think that the techs who still carefully remove shine and who are happy with their chosen brand/system should be told they are wrong
Yes there are Techs out there, who are way behind in the evolutionary process still etching and overfilling the nail, and even some good techs on a bad, back to back appt. day possibly overdoing the buffing.
We do need to keep moving forward, and I personally can't wait for the day that removing shine/buffing is no longer required for any system, but I am not going to forget that it has been for a long time something that was totally necessary.

 

[geeg]

I don't think anyone is being demonised but I think Doug made it quite clear that it not just cheap nail bars that are doing the damage.

I have always said that buffing causes damage ... It can be minimal light buffing but it is still damage that was not on the nail before it was done. 'Damage' can be done in many degrees. It's no different with hair colouring ... Hair is damaged, but not permanent damage .. And all we women accept that do we not? We accept that our hair is going to alter if coloured. Nails are the same if buffed and dehydrated continually. If we don't have to do it it's BETTER so if there is a choice, I'm going to take the higher road.

This thread is not about CND or the next innovation. CND products have always required the most minimal prep of any ... And will continue to lead the way with that.

This article from Doug is about the fact that We all have to take responsibility to 'do no harm' just like doctors. To me, that is the point of this thread. Doug mentioned no companies nor brands, and I don't see why we need to.

 

[geeg]

Isn't it sad that an interesting topic of intelligent discussion can be posted (how rare it is) and then slip down to page 4 on the forum un-noticed, while the entire first page is taken up with question after question about new colours? :zzz::zzz:

 

[mum]

I agree! I put Doug's Myth Busting article up a few weeks ago. Nothing . I think so many are not really interested in learning the basics just what new nail art can I do

At Vidal Sasoon training students can do NOTHING creative until they have learnt the basics inside and out. How many nail people spend time doing extreme 3D stiletto nail art after a 2 day L&P course and no manicure? :Scared:

 

[geeg]

I agree! I put Doug's Myth Busting article up a few weeks ago. Nothing . I think so many are not really interested in learning the basics just what new nail art can I do

At Vidal Sasoon training students can do NOTHING creative until they have learnt the basics inside and out. How many nail people spend time doing extreme 3D stiletto nail art after a 2 day L&P course and no manicure? :Scared:

Another great discussion all on its own, Marian. :hug:

I agree there is way too much playing around that's not making anyone a penny .. All about ego and getting pictures up on the net. Ho hum!

Think I may just step away until someone actually needs something useful.

 

[izzidoll]

I do agree there seems to be a general apathy within our ranks about the science and basics or our Industry.

That said, should we be hopeful that maybe the lack of response is just that everyone agrees, and no one is going to come on and post that they advocate overfilling of the nail

Regarding your comment on NSS, that is something worth discussing.
A few short years ago our Industry, and our High Streets, were flooded with Nail Bars, with predominantly Asian staff and their unhygienic methods did earn them the moniker of Non Standard Salon NSS.
I do agree that the term NSS non standard salon is a bit of a misnomer now, even using the term Discount Salon is out of date, as most of these places have upped their game in regards to Health & Safety and are charging more realistic prices, for their quick, conveyor belt services.

Of course they were never the only perpetrators of non standard services, some highly trained and high end Salons also only paid lip service to proper sanitation and disinfection, and used short cuts in their treatments. But as they were not so visible on our High Streets they kept under the radar.

Now though, even if the term is obsolete, is the new NSS the One Day Coursers, or NO Course at all person, who knows nothing about the science of her products (or even where to buy them) and has no knowledge of the most basic contraindications or nail diseases.
Or even the Tech who trained over 15 years ago, was taught to etch the nail (as I was) and has never updated her training, therefore is still doing it. Overfilling being the very least of these techs crimes towards nails.

This site has so much information to help newly qualified Nail Techs, to let them expand their knowledge, and their business, there are Articles, Tutorials, input from the likes of Doug Schoon and Marian Newman, and yet even the vast majority of new Geeks don't even access the full site!

You can lead a horse to water....................