Employee & angry father!

[craig_studio17]

Hi guys,

I've recently had an experience which I'm looking for a bit of advice with. The story starts when I took on a level 2 beauty therapist from the local college to act as a bit of cover while my full time beautician was on holiday.

So she came in on the Friday afternoon for a chat with me and my business partner. We liked her and asked if she would like to come in on the Saturday for a trial to see how her customer service skills where and more importantly her abilities as a beautician.

She performed excellently and we offered her a position as cover for our full time beautician. We agreed which days she would come in but was made abundantly clear that our full timer was returning on 'X' date and we would reassess the situation afterwards.

It turned out that we really liked her and that we would try our best to give her some shifts here and there whenever possible with the view to bringing her in on a part time basis if the salon got busy enough. Again she was happy with this and seemed very keen to impress!

However last Saturday was payday and after working her week in lieu she would receive her first pay check. I was paying the girls cash up until this point as I was still sorting out the banking details (and being with RBS it made sense to pay them cash due to the recent mishaps they had been having)

After she received her envelope at 5pm my Wife and I were emptying bins and collecting the dirty towels etc before we locked up and she appeared back in the shop asking why her pay was so low???... I explained to her that I had to put her on a BR tax code (advice given from the employers helpline) and that it was out of my control, but reassured her that HMRC would sort this out and she would receive a tax rebate if of course she was due one.

So she seemed happy with the answer given and away she went. 5 minutes later her Father storms in the door like a bull in a china shop accusing me of trying to rip his daughter off. I was seriously getting ready to start fighting this guy! I done my best to calm him down and told him the same thing I told his daughter. To this he was quick to tell me that I had it wrong, that he had been self-employed for 7 years and knows exactly how a business works...? He went onto tell me that she was due 40 hours pay and that nobody gets taxed £200 from their weekly wage...???

Again I replied with the answer that she hadn't worked a 40 hour week and that she wasn't taxed £200, he appeared to ignore my answer while searching his pocket for his mobile phone. He held it up in front of him and started punching in some numbers, after a few seconds he said "you owe her £143" I told him that I think he's wrong, but I would go away and double check and give her a call later in the evening. Some more aggressive words were exchanged and he left....

When I got home I had a look at her pay slip. Sure enough I had under paid her, but only by 3 hours. I forgot the shop opened late on Thursdays so instead of paying her 1.30-8pm I paid her 1.30 to 5pm. I got straight on the phone and apologised to her and told her that I had infact underpaid her a little and with it being Saturday night there wasn't much I could do about it. I told her I'd give her a call on Monday/Tuesday and have the matter resolved, she said "don't worry about it, thanks for letting me know"....

The next day after sleeping on it I was absolutely furious that this man had came into my shop in the manner in which he did! What if I had customers in!!!!!!!

I had a discussion with my partner and we agreed that there was no call for this sort of behaviour and that we should in fact sack her. However treating the situation fairly with the fact that I had made an honest mistake myself we'd stick to the original deal that we had offered her.

We got her in and had a chat with her, we did not mention her Fathers actions whatsoever. We basically ran through the hours which she had done, and reiterated to her that she was acting as cover. After a rather friendly meeting she left and we told her that we'd give her a call after her holiday. (she leaves tomorrow!) I also told her that now I had the banking sorted out that she'd be receiving her pay today into her bank account. Being a fair guy I told her the reason for this was because if I put it in on Saturday then she wouldn't receive it until the Monday and I know its always nice being paid for the weekend.... Can't say fairer than that!

10-15 minutes after she left my partner and I also left, as we approached the car park, we could see her sitting in her Dads car with him in the drivers seat. We just walked by and got into my own car. I then received a text message from her stating AGAIN the hours she had worked and the money she was due, which did not add up to the hours we had just agreed with each other??

A few hours later I then received another text message which said she better get paid for her trial day!

She came into the shop yesterday as she had a form for me which I asked her to fill out. While she was there she told one of my stylists that she better get paid on Friday or her Dad is "coming to see me!"

I've also been given some other information from my best friend (his girlfriend is in the same college class as this girl) say that she had text her saying that if she doesn't get paid on Friday then her Dad is going to "Hammer me!"....

Its safe to say that this girl or any members of her family won't be welcome in my shop again, but I know that her Dad is going to kick up a fuss about her not being paid for her trial day. I am point blank not paying her for it! I'd rather reserve any profits for members of staff who deserve it and not a silly little girl who lost her job through her ignorant Father!

I'm obviously afraid that he comes into the shop while there are clients there and starts bad mouthing the place, I'm also very afraid that he harms members of my staff as after a little detective work I've found out that he is a very aggressive man and will lift his hand to anyone (including females) without even thinking about it!

Can anyone give me any advice on how to stop this happening and should I be warning the other Salon Owners in the area of this girl???

Thanks

Craig

 

[Nailsanonymous]

What a tale - really sorry I can't help at all but just wanted to send you a note to say what a nightmare and hope other geeks can help more than me.

The only thing I can think of is ring the police as soon as he starts using threatening behaviour, he obviously uses his aggressive behaviour as he can't talk through problems sensibly and like a mature adult.

So sorry x

 

[celtica]

What a nightmare. Why not pre-empt him and invite him in and go over what you did with his daughter or you arrange to visit him at his home. Keeping him away from the salon. Otherwise inform the police you may have a incident on your hands so they are aware if you have to call them.
Hope it is sorted peacefully.
x

 

[Petit Basque]

Hi guys,

I've recently had an experience which I'm looking for a bit of advice with. The story starts when I took on a level 2 beauty therapist from the local college to act as a bit of cover while my full time beautician was on holiday.

So she came in on the Friday afternoon for a chat with me and my business partner. We liked her and asked if she would like to come in on the Saturday for a trial to see how her customer service skills where and more importantly her abilities as a beautician.

She performed excellently and we offered her a position as cover for our full time beautician. We agreed which days she would come in but was made abundantly clear that our full timer was returning on 'X' date and we would reassess the situation afterwards.

It turned out that we really liked her and that we would try our best to give her some shifts here and there whenever possible with the view to bringing her in on a part time basis if the salon got busy enough. Again she was happy with this and seemed very keen to impress!

However last Saturday was payday and after working her week in lieu she would receive her first pay check. I was paying the girls cash up until this point as I was still sorting out the banking details (and being with RBS it made sense to pay them cash due to the recent mishaps they had been having)

After she received her envelope at 5pm my Wife and I were emptying bins and collecting the dirty towels etc before we locked up and she appeared back in the shop asking why her pay was so low???... I explained to her that I had to put her on a BR tax code (advice given from the employers helpline) and that it was out of my control, but reassured her that HMRC would sort this out and she would receive a tax rebate if of course she was due one.

So she seemed happy with the answer given and away she went. 5 minutes later her Father storms in the door like a bull in a china shop accusing me of trying to rip his daughter off. I was seriously getting ready to start fighting this guy! I done my best to calm him down and told him the same thing I told his daughter. To this he was quick to tell me that I had it wrong, that he had been self-employed for 7 years and knows exactly how a business works...? He went onto tell me that she was due 40 hours pay and that nobody gets taxed £200 from their weekly wage...???

Again I replied with the answer that she hadn't worked a 40 hour week and that she wasn't taxed £200, he appeared to ignore my answer while searching his pocket for his mobile phone. He held it up in front of him and started punching in some numbers, after a few seconds he said "you owe her £143" I told him that I think he's wrong, but I would go away and double check and give her a call later in the evening. Some more aggressive words were exchanged and he left....

When I got home I had a look at her pay slip. Sure enough I had under paid her, but only by 3 hours. I forgot the shop opened late on Thursdays so instead of paying her 1.30-8pm I paid her 1.30 to 5pm. I got straight on the phone and apologised to her and told her that I had infact underpaid her a little and with it being Saturday night there wasn't much I could do about it. I told her I'd give her a call on Monday/Tuesday and have the matter resolved, she said "don't worry about it, thanks for letting me know"....

The next day after sleeping on it I was absolutely furious that this man had came into my shop in the manner in which he did! What if I had customers in!!!!!!!

I had a discussion with my partner and we agreed that there was no call for this sort of behaviour and that we should in fact sack her. However treating the situation fairly with the fact that I had made an honest mistake myself we'd stick to the original deal that we had offered her.

We got her in and had a chat with her, we did not mention her Fathers actions whatsoever. We basically ran through the hours which she had done, and reiterated to her that she was acting as cover. After a rather friendly meeting she left and we told her that we'd give her a call after her holiday. (she leaves tomorrow!) I also told her that now I had the banking sorted out that she'd be receiving her pay today into her bank account. Being a fair guy I told her the reason for this was because if I put it in on Saturday then she wouldn't receive it until the Monday and I know its always nice being paid for the weekend.... Can't say fairer than that!

10-15 minutes after she left my partner and I also left, as we approached the car park, we could see her sitting in her Dads car with him in the drivers seat. We just walked by and got into my own car. I then received a text message from her stating AGAIN the hours she had worked and the money she was due, which did not add up to the hours we had just agreed with each other??

A few hours later I then received another text message which said she better get paid for her trial day!

She came into the shop yesterday as she had a form for me which I asked her to fill out. While she was there she told one of my stylists that she better get paid on Friday or her Dad is "coming to see me!"

I've also been given some other information from my best friend (his girlfriend is in the same college class as this girl) say that she had text her saying that if she doesn't get paid on Friday then her Dad is going to "Hammer me!"....

Its safe to say that this girl or any members of her family won't be welcome in my shop again, but I know that her Dad is going to kick up a fuss about her not being paid for her trial day. I am point blank not paying her for it! I'd rather reserve any profits for members of staff who deserve it and not a silly little girl who lost her job through her ignorant Father!

I'm obviously afraid that he comes into the shop while there are clients there and starts bad mouthing the place, I'm also very afraid that he harms members of my staff as after a little detective work I've found out that he is a very aggressive man and will lift his hand to anyone (including females) without even thinking about it!

Can anyone give me any advice on how to stop this happening and should I be warning the other Salon Owners in the area of this girl???

Thanks

Craig

Actually, I think you should be contacting the Police and outlining the situation to them. You have acted fairly and lawfully and this man is not. He is a threat to you, your staff and your reputation.

It seems to me that the Police need to be having a word with him and letting him know that he is not allowed to enter your salon under any circumstances.

Whilst I think it is a honourable idea to alert other salon owners, you do need to be a bit careful in case you are accused of badmouthing and even slander. Personally, I would take some advice about this and the whole situation from a solicitor.

HTH
PB
x

 

[jcpark]

Is it the norm in the beauty industry not to pay for a trial day? I can understand doing a trade test, but if someone has worked done a days work (even if it is just a trial), I do think some sort of payment should be made. Although, I'm not in the beauty industry so not sure if this is the norm.

 

[Verve Designs]

I agree. It's against the law the make a threat- and furthermore, asking for money with a threat of violence is robbery!

However! I wouldn't go out of your way to contact people about this person, it could be construed as slanderous. If a salon were to contact you to ask for a opinion, that's different.

 

[Beansy]

If she has worked a trial day for you and you were quite clearly pleased with her work, how are you justifying not paying her? I can understand a trade test but if someone has spent a day working for you and you subsequently employ them, this seems very unfair. It seems that you're almost penalising the daughter for her fathers behaviour, which to me is totally unfair. She possibly isn't confident to query your decision herself and/or her father is telling her how to handle it, in his own unique style. She might not, for whatever reasons, feel able to approach you.

I don't think it's appropriate to approach other salon owners as the fact that he has an issue with you / your practice doesn't necessarily mean that this will be the case for others.

Why not write to the daughter, thanking her for her work and outlining why / how and when she has been / will be paid. Add that if she thinks there is a discrepancy then to put it in writing to you. You could also enclose a reference for her.

I would suggest that if he comes in to the shop you don't get in to any exchange of words with him. Ask him to step outside and say that you've written to his daughter and that all the details are explained in there.

QUOTE "I am point blank not paying her for it! I'd rather reserve any profits for members of staff who deserve it and not a silly little girl who lost her job through her ignorant Father!"
I would also suggest that by posting the above on a site in the public domain you are also at risk of being accused of constructive dismissal!

 

[Dolly6410]

Actually, I think you should be contacting the Police and outlining the situation to them. You have acted fairly and lawfully and this man is not. He is a threat to you, your staff and your reputation.

It seems to me that the Police need to be having a word with him and letting him know that he is not allowed to enter your salon under any circumstances.

Whilst I think it is a honourable idea to alert other salon owners, you do need to be a bit careful in case you are accused of badmouthing and even slander. Personally, I would take some advice about this and the whole situation from a solicitor.

HTH
PB
x

agreed that you should call your local police station and ask for advice, also i have done many 'trial days' in beauty salons, hairdressers and clothing shops and never been paid. She handled the situation totally unprofessional and it shows how immature she is that she kept running back to her dad and TEXTING you her issues. Surely the right route would have been to arrange a meeting with yourself and her dad there, some people! good luck x

 

[tanfastic]

I would try to arrange a meeting with the dad and talk things through, in a public place. Not your salon, not his home. If you go to his home and things kick off he could lie and say you turned up to threaten him in his home and he was just defending himself, his home and his family. I would also insist that the girl is present at the meeting and have all documents or paperwork pertaining to her employement with you, anything she may have signed etc. That way she cant tell you one thing and him another, it sounds to me as if she is not telling him the truth and he is blaming you for her porkies. Above all stay calm, he might be embarassed enough to behave himself in a public place and if he kicks off call the police or ask the owner of the establishment you are going to meet in to keep an eye and be ready to call the police. You will have to deal with this man in some way or other. The other option is to get your solicitor to write to them telling them that thet are no longer to come to your place of business and if you have any further problems or any of your staff have any from him you will be seeking an injuction against him.

He is just a bully and I do sympathise with you. Hopefully it all blows over soon. Poor girl having to deal with having a dad like that. She wont have much luck staying in a good job with him sabotaging her.

 

[Dolly6410]

I would try to arrange a meeting with the dad and talk things through, in a public place. Not your salon, not his home. If you go to his home and things kick off he could lie and say you turned up to threaten him in his home and he was just defending himself, his home and his family. I would also insist that the girl is present at the meeting and have all documents or paperwork pertaining to her employement with you, anything she may have signed etc. That way she cant tell you one thing and him another, it sounds to me as if she is not telling him the truth and he is blaming you for her porkies. Above all stay calm, he might be embarassed enough to behave himself in a public place and if he kicks off call the police or ask the owner of the establishment you are going to meet in to keep an eye and be ready to call the police. You will have to deal with this man in some way or other. The other option is to get your solicitor to write to them telling them that thet are no longer to come to your place of business and if you have any further problems or any of your staff have any from him you will be seeking an injuction against him.

He is just a bully and I do sympathise with you. Hopefully it all blows over soon. Poor girl having to deal with having a dad like that. She wont have much luck staying in a good job with him sabotaging her.

i like this idea! take someone with you as a silent witness who will take notes and also maybe take one of those voice recorders, my dads obsessed with our voice recorder, i think it makes him feel like a spy haha x

 

[lbrown332]

To be honest, if you had told the girl that you wouldn't be paying her for the trial day then she shouldn't be paid and to be honest, you can't get any of your family involved in 'fighting your battles'. That just proves that she thinks that she can get away with anything and her daddy will intimidate people into getting what they want.

I wouldn't warn anyone about them because if shes a good therapist then she will get interviews and its the companys choice to hire her or not as you did with her. She could mature as she gets older and fight her own battles when she grows up. How bad would you feel if you called round all the salons in the area and she couldn't get a job with any of them because of what happened with you? I know I'd feel really, really guilty!

I know this hasn't been all that helpful but I dunno what else to say. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future with her though.

Leanne
X

 

[KayaPapaya]

i'm not sure about legal matters, but I am very concerned you have sacked a girl who's work you were very happy with because of the actions of her father.
I would be urging you to reconsider.
That's not to say I approve of behaviour of the father, he's out of order, but you can't blame the daughter or fault her quality of work because her dad has kicked off.

 

[craig_studio17]

Thanks for the replies guys! I've had a few sleepness nights over it this week! I will let you know the outcome of what we decide to do!

i'm not sure about legal matters, but I am very concerned you have sacked a girl who's work you were very happy with because of the actions of her father.
I would be urging you to reconsider.
That's not to say I approve of behaviour of the father, he's out of order, but you can't blame the daughter or fault her quality of work because her dad has kicked off.

Just on this one, we too were a little concerned about this, however here is a snippet from our Salon Code of Conduct....

“Gross Misconduct” is action of such seriousness that The Management will require the immediate contract termination of the offender from the Salon. The Management may by means of an executive decision summarily suspend such an offender without invoking a disciplinary hearing. The suspended member of staff will have the right to a disciplinary hearing as soon as this can be arranged but will remain suspended until and unless such a hearing overturns the executive decision.
Examples of gross misconduct are:-

- Physical violence of assault towards fellow employees and/or clientel of the Salon or related activity, including serious threatening, intimidating or forceful behavior. This also includes but is not limited to the above being carried out by someone else on behalf of a member of staff.
- Reckless disregard of safety and basic safety rules
- Being convicted of criminal offences involving physical violence or abuse
- Other acts that are considered to be of an extremely serious nature perpetuated against the Salon, its employees or any other party.
- Any other actions of similar gravity to the above, at the discretion of the management.

Each member of staff has a copy of this!

Thanks

Craig

 

[lalalinda]

im really sorry this has happened to you...ive got to say though if you were happy with the girls work then you really should reconsider paying her for a trial day. you dont want to get a reputation for treating your staff badly. i would also go to the police about the father.
I dont think you should persecute the girl for her fathers actions, im not excusing what he did.he was very wrong. however my father is very protective of me and while he would never even dream of doing that i was messed around by my old boss with money in the past and my mother had to convince him not to go down to my place of work and give out. i knew nothing about this until afterwards and if he had went down it would have been out of my control. the girl probably could have done more to keep him from doing that but thats hard to know.

 

[KayaPapaya]

Thanks for the replies guys! I've had a few sleepness nights over it this week! I will let you know the outcome of what we decide to do!



Just on this one, we too were a little concerned about this, however here is a snippet from our Salon Code of Conduct....

“Gross Misconduct” is action of such seriousness that The Management will require the immediate contract termination of the offender from the Salon. The Management may by means of an executive decision summarily suspend such an offender without invoking a disciplinary hearing. The suspended member of staff will have the right to a disciplinary hearing as soon as this can be arranged but will remain suspended until and unless such a hearing overturns the executive decision.
Examples of gross misconduct are:-

- Physical violence of assault towards fellow employees and/or clientel of the Salon or related activity, including serious threatening, intimidating or forceful behavior. This also includes but is not limited to the above being carried out by someone else on behalf of a member of staff.
- Reckless disregard of safety and basic safety rules
- Being convicted of criminal offences involving physical violence or abuse
- Other acts that are considered to be of an extremely serious nature perpetuated against the Salon, its employees or any other party.
- Any other actions of similar gravity to the above, at the discretion of the management.

Each member of staff has a copy of this!

Thanks

Craig

I would seriously take legal advice on this. Whilst she probably mentinoed to her father the problem she thought there was with wages, that's not to say she told him or implied to him that he should come to your salon and threaten you.
Again I am not legally trained, but she could have had no clue what he was going to do (she may have but can you prove that beyond reasonable doubt that she knew what he'd do?
I find it sad that this poor girl is being judged and has lost her job because of her father.

 

[Natm]

Did you state you would pay her in the beginning for a trial day? When I did trial days in salons they always stated they wouldn't be paid. If you said she would be paid I would prob pay her just to resolve the situation. X

 

[essentia]

This is not the girl's fault but I think the OP is correct in not taking her back. If he does then they will think that agressive behaviour is the way to get what you want and all he will be doing is waiting for the next occasion for it to kick off again. As for the girl maybe she needs to learn to stand on her on two feet and developing a more mature behaviour if she has issues regarding her work and pay. I would contact the police about the father's behaviour though and get it logged.

 

[craig_studio17]

This is not the girl's fault but I think the OP is correct in not taking her back. If he does then they will think that agressive behaviour is the way to get what you want and all he will be doing is waiting for the next occasion for it to kick off again. As for the girl maybe she needs to learn to stand on her on two feet and developing a more mature behaviour if she has issues regarding her work and pay. I would contact the police about the father's behaviour though and get it logged.

This is the attitude I have towards the situation. My full time staff know that I am a very reasonable guy and if I have got something wrong I will put my hands up to it, apologise and resolve the matter asap.

I totally understand where the folk saying that its not the girls fault are coming from, however threatening people with abusive behaviour is not the way ahead! I need to think of the safety of my staff and for the sustainability of my business! I can't have aggressive family members upsetting the ambience of my Salon every time I get something wrong, after all I'm only human and we are allowed to make mistakes every now and then.

As for the unpaid trial day, she accepted that it would be unpaid and that it was all part of the interview process. The main objective of a trial day is not to pick up a wage packet at the end, its to get a job! Which she done! All my other staff were given unpaid trial days and duly accepted this as industry standard, I did tell them it would be unpaid, however they were not expecting to be paid anyway....

I will be taking the advice of most and logging this instance with the local police

Thanks guys!

Craig

 

[Beansy]

Just on this one, we too were a little concerned about this, however here is a snippet from our Salon Code of Conduct....

“Gross Misconduct” is action of such seriousness that The Management will require the immediate contract termination of the offender from the Salon. The Management may by means of an executive decision summarily suspend such an offender without invoking a disciplinary hearing. The suspended member of staff will have the right to a disciplinary hearing as soon as this can be arranged but will remain suspended until and unless such a hearing overturns the executive decision.
Examples of gross misconduct are:-

- Physical violence of assault towards fellow employees and/or clientel of the Salon or related activity, including serious threatening, intimidating or forceful behavior. This also includes but is not limited to the above being carried out by someone else on behalf of a member of staff.
- Reckless disregard of safety and basic safety rules
- Being convicted of criminal offences involving physical violence or abuse
- Other acts that are considered to be of an extremely serious nature perpetuated against the Salon, its employees or any other party.
- Any other actions of similar gravity to the above, at the discretion of the management.

I think you would really struggle to justify your actions on the basis of this. With all due respect to the person that wrote this, they appear to be encompassing everything that they can think of, but how on earth would you be able to prove that the father's actions were carried out on behalf of the daughter? At no point (and remember you have posted this in a domain where anyone can read this) have you indicated that the girl has threatened you. These were actions of her father, not her, and as such, he is accountable, not her.

If she agreed that the day was unpaid then I'm assuming that this was put in writing to her. In this case, I would simply show her this. If you haven't got this, it's a quick & easy lesson for the future!

I think if the girl appealed your decision (which your policy and procedure should allow her to do) and you refused she could quite easily threaten you with an ET. Believe me, that is the last thing you need!

 

[Only-me]

Hi just a view from the police point of view..
Write down the events so far.. Call 101 (non-emergency number) or pop in to local station, explain the situation and that you are concerned about his behaviour and threats...
There can be 2 ways they usually deal with this. They will contact this man and warn him off, he may be known to them if he has previous history of acting like this.
Or they can log it and leave it with you to call if you have further issues.

If he turns up and you feel threatened or intimidated call 999, if it's logged it will help as it will bring up your incident.

The first option is prob better if you are genuinely concerned
Hth 😊