Heated mitts - Shellac removal

[virtues2011]

Hi everyone I hope you are all well. Having spoken with my wife there appears to be some considerable debate regarding the safe use of Acetone. We must first understand what Acetone is. Acetone is an organic liquid solvent. Nail polish is a hardened organic polymer. When the remover is applied to the polish, the molecules of the solvent will force their way through the polymer molecules, causing the polish to disintegrate. Respecting Acetone is extremely important when practicing and we must understand its characteristics. Acetone is a colourless and extremely flammable solvent and its indigenous attributes renders it volatile!

Handling and administering Acetone should be exercised with care and due diligence not only does it have the potential to combust it carries health risks too. My expert advice to the industry, if you are storing and using Acetone you MUST have in your possession a MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the product. This is a legal requirement as determined by the HSE and local authorities.

The compositional structure of Acetone is comprehensive and things you should be mindful of are the following to minimise risk and consequential tragedy;

Acetone has a self ignition point of 540 degrees Celsius. It has a flash point of (minus -18 degrees Celsius). Acetone disseminates `trailing vapours’ which is incredibly dangerous and has the potential to flash back to the source and ignite, just like aviation fuel, and having a vapour density of 2 this is why it trails! Boiling point of Acetone is circa 45 degrees Celsius. Acetone also has an SG of 0.79 with all densities being measured against water, which is 1, suggests that Acetone will burn on surface water, these are the strict fundamentals of the chemicals composition and helps us to understand how we should respect and control it. We have not covered health risks, but rest assured they are there.

My proven and professional advice is; DO NOT introduce any heat source of any kind, this is a solvent and designed to disintegrate polish pertinent to this particular industry, although widely used throughout industry…its even in diesel. Store this product safely. The HSE requires you to store Acetone in the appropriate steel, lockable enclosure. Ensure you have the appropriate extinguisher to hand. For those of you who have or practice in commercial premises you will be subject to a fire inspection and chemicals such as Acetone MUST be disclosed and supported by the MSDS, in the event of a fire this information is vital.

Geeg..to answer the question regarding commercial insurance implications with regard to exposure you would need to determine the risk and the present levels of exposure, exposure monitoring would determine the existing PPM (parts per million) in the atmosphere and upon findings the HSE would inform you of the safe working limits and duration of exposure that you can subject employees and customers to.

Insurance companies will expect you to have undertaken the appropriate risk assessments when disclosing information to them, they will NOT cut corners but will always seek a route of escape hence why assessments should be watertight. When using Acetone the MSDS categorically states ` avoid heat and any other sources of potential ignition’. In the event of an Acetone fire the insurers and loss adjusters would simply say how was it caused…by introducing heat…you are dead in the. water! It is simply not worth the risk and to compromise the safety of yourself and others would be irresponsible and in the eyes of the law…negligent…due diligence is the answer.

I cannot emphasise enough the dangers and unconscious risks associated with such an aggressive and volatile media. Respect the Acetone for what it is!

You mentioned that three ounces of Acetone was placed in a microwave and ignited in less than two seconds. I am not surprised it was radiated using `radio waves` (electrical heat generating energy) that heats from the core outwards, (inside out) micro waves are scattered and cross in every direction at great speed but only react with moisture, that was a stupid thing to do and I would have fired her and potentially prosecuted her! I have vast experience dealing with potential explosive atmospheres and if I made an error in my judgement…I would go to jail…I know this and accept it as a consequence.

Best regards

Graham R Hodge MIoD

 

[geeg]

Hi everyone I hope you are all well. Having spoken with my wife there appears to be some considerable debate regarding the safe use of Acetone. We must first understand what Acetone is. Acetone is an organic liquid solvent. Nail polish is a hardened organic polymer. When the remover is applied to the polish, the molecules of the solvent will force their way through the polymer molecules, causing the polish to disintegrate. Respecting Acetone is extremely important when practicing and we must understand its characteristics. Acetone is a colourless and extremely flammable solvent and its indigenous attributes renders it volatile!

Handling and administering Acetone should be exercised with care and due diligence not only does it have the potential to combust it carries health risks too. My expert advice to the industry, if you are storing and using Acetone you MUST have in your possession a MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the product. This is a legal requirement as determined by the HSE and local authorities.

The compositional structure of Acetone is comprehensive and things you should be mindful of are the following to minimise risk and consequential tragedy;

Acetone has a self ignition point of 540 degrees Celsius. It has a flash point of (minus -18 degrees Celsius). Acetone disseminates `trailing vapours’ which is incredibly dangerous and has the potential to flash back to the source and ignite, just like aviation fuel, and having a vapour density of 2 this is why it trails! Boiling point of Acetone is circa 45 degrees Celsius. Acetone also has an SG of 0.79 with all densities being measured against water, which is 1, suggests that Acetone will burn on surface water, these are the strict fundamentals of the chemicals composition and helps us to understand how we should respect and control it. We have not covered health risks, but rest assured they are there.

My proven and professional advice is; DO NOT introduce any heat source of any kind, this is a solvent and designed to disintegrate polish pertinent to this particular industry, although widely used throughout industry…its even in diesel. Store this product safely. The HSE requires you to store Acetone in the appropriate steel, lockable enclosure. Ensure you have the appropriate extinguisher to hand. For those of you who have or practice in commercial premises you will be subject to a fire inspection and chemicals such as Acetone MUST be disclosed and supported by the MSDS, in the event of a fire this information is vital.

Geeg..to answer the question regarding commercial insurance implications with regard to exposure you would need to determine the risk and the present levels of exposure, exposure monitoring would determine the existing PPM (parts per million) in the atmosphere and upon findings the HSE would inform you of the safe working limits and duration of exposure that you can subject employees and customers to.

Insurance companies will expect you to have undertaken the appropriate risk assessments when disclosing information to them, they will NOT cut corners but will always seek a route of escape hence why assessments should be watertight. When using Acetone the MSDS categorically states ` avoid heat and any other sources of potential ignition’. In the event of an Acetone fire the insurers and loss adjusters would simply say how was it caused…by introducing heat…you are dead in the. water! It is simply not worth the risk and to compromise the safety of yourself and others would be irresponsible and in the eyes of the law…negligent…due diligence is the answer.

I cannot emphasise enough the dangers and unconscious risks associated with such an aggressive and volatile media. Respect the Acetone for what it is!

You mentioned that three ounces of Acetone was placed in a microwave and ignited in less than two seconds. I am not surprised it was radiated using `radio waves` (electrical heat generating energy) that heats from the core outwards, (inside out) micro waves are scattered and cross in every direction at great speed but only react with moisture, that was a stupid thing to do and I would have fired her and potentially prosecuted her! I have vast experience dealing with potential explosive atmospheres and if I made an error in my judgement…I would go to jail…I know this and accept it as a consequence.

That's good enough for me! Thank you so much. How brilliant to have an expert to hand. :hug:

This info should really settle any quibbles as it really is straight forward information. Anyone who ignores it does so at their peril (and their clients and their business) basically.

Fortunately most of us do not store large amounts of Acetone and fortunately we only use it in small amounts with minimal contact with the skin. This is when I am always so grateful to CND whose products are the safest in the industry because they always try to minimise the usage of solvents, and educate their technicians well.

To really freak you out ...though I have warned people for years, I even know some who think its OK and put hands wearing nail wraps soaked in acetone in a UV Lamp to aid in removal!! Seriously. No idea of the risk they were taking ... And although everyone should by law have MSDS in the salon, 99% never read them to learn the recommended handling procedures. I hope everyone who reads takes this information on board. As per usual, it will take a tragedy before many will listen or even be made aware.

 

[xxAmyxx]

Hi everyone I hope you are all well. Having spoken with my wife there appears to be some considerable debate regarding the safe use of Acetone. We must first understand what Acetone is. Acetone is an organic liquid solvent. Nail polish is a hardened organic polymer. When the remover is applied to the polish, the molecules of the solvent will force their way through the polymer molecules, causing the polish to disintegrate. Respecting Acetone is extremely important when practicing and we must understand its characteristics. Acetone is a colourless and extremely flammable solvent and its indigenous attributes renders it volatile!

Handling and administering Acetone should be exercised with care and due diligence not only does it have the potential to combust it carries health risks too. My expert advice to the industry, if you are storing and using Acetone you MUST have in your possession a MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the product. This is a legal requirement as determined by the HSE and local authorities.

The compositional structure of Acetone is comprehensive and things you should be mindful of are the following to minimise risk and consequential tragedy;

Acetone has a self ignition point of 540 degrees Celsius. It has a flash point of (minus -18 degrees Celsius). Acetone disseminates `trailing vapours’ which is incredibly dangerous and has the potential to flash back to the source and ignite, just like aviation fuel, and having a vapour density of 2 this is why it trails! Boiling point of Acetone is circa 45 degrees Celsius. Acetone also has an SG of 0.79 with all densities being measured against water, which is 1, suggests that Acetone will burn on surface water, these are the strict fundamentals of the chemicals composition and helps us to understand how we should respect and control it. We have not covered health risks, but rest assured they are there.

My proven and professional advice is; DO NOT introduce any heat source of any kind, this is a solvent and designed to disintegrate polish pertinent to this particular industry, although widely used throughout industry…its even in diesel. Store this product safely. The HSE requires you to store Acetone in the appropriate steel, lockable enclosure. Ensure you have the appropriate extinguisher to hand. For those of you who have or practice in commercial premises you will be subject to a fire inspection and chemicals such as Acetone MUST be disclosed and supported by the MSDS, in the event of a fire this information is vital.

Geeg..to answer the question regarding commercial insurance implications with regard to exposure you would need to determine the risk and the present levels of exposure, exposure monitoring would determine the existing PPM (parts per million) in the atmosphere and upon findings the HSE would inform you of the safe working limits and duration of exposure that you can subject employees and customers to.

Insurance companies will expect you to have undertaken the appropriate risk assessments when disclosing information to them, they will NOT cut corners but will always seek a route of escape hence why assessments should be watertight. When using Acetone the MSDS categorically states ` avoid heat and any other sources of potential ignition’. In the event of an Acetone fire the insurers and loss adjusters would simply say how was it caused…by introducing heat…you are dead in the. water! It is simply not worth the risk and to compromise the safety of yourself and others would be irresponsible and in the eyes of the law…negligent…due diligence is the answer.

I cannot emphasise enough the dangers and unconscious risks associated with such an aggressive and volatile media. Respect the Acetone for what it is!

You mentioned that three ounces of Acetone was placed in a microwave and ignited in less than two seconds. I am not surprised it was radiated using `radio waves` (electrical heat generating energy) that heats from the core outwards, (inside out) micro waves are scattered and cross in every direction at great speed but only react with moisture, that was a stupid thing to do and I would have fired her and potentially prosecuted her! I have vast experience dealing with potential explosive atmospheres and if I made an error in my judgement…I would go to jail…I know this and accept it as a consequence.

Best regards

Graham R Hodge MIoD

Thank you for taking to the time to answer

 

[Claire@OBNMK]

A big thank you to Graham is in order for his time in explaining things, cheers dude x

 

[margot]

Lovely hearing from a professional, and also a good reminder for our health and safety procedures!


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Cheryl Sait-Parkinson

 

[mum]

Fabulous! Thank you Mr Virtues

Any technician ignoring this expert advice clearly do so at their own peril!

Now stop arguing people!

I'm not sure I'd even recommend warm water in a bowl now with that flash point! The vapour trails would be very wide spread.

 

[geeg]

Fabulous! Thank you Mr Virtues

Any technician ignoring this expert advice clearly do so at their own peril!

Now stop arguing people!

I'm not sure I'd even recommend warm water in a bowl now with that flash point! The vapour trails would be very wide spread.

And considering the number of plug sockets on and near to my desk I wonder if adding oil to the Acetone cuts down on the evaporation and vapour ... My guess is that it would. If it does, then Double yay to CND for adding it to the nourishing remover.

 

[JERSEY JOCK]

Doug Schoon

Acetone Sparks Serious Salon Accident

 

[izzidoll]

Of course I understand all the technical information given.

BUT can I just ask...particularly geeg and mum in all your years in this industry using acetone warming it with the double bowl method or in handisoak bowls to remove L&P and now using it in wraps with some form of warmth added have you ever heard of it combusting?
Just one instance, at all ever ?

 

[geeg]

Of course I understand all the technical information given.

BUT can I just ask...particularly geeg and mum in all your years in this industry using acetone warming it with the double bowl method or in handisoak bowls to remove L&P and now using it in wraps with some form of warmth added have you ever heard of it combusting?
Just one instance, at all ever ?

It's never happened to me, but I have always been very careful to tuck a towel over and around the hands and bowls and I have never over heated it.

Obviously accidents have happened and it's a good reminder to be diligent and aware that it can. Let's hope this information saves a few accidents and makes people more aware.

I have not seen a report in the papers in the UK but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I do remember another incident where a nail tech was bottling her own remover in her kitchen and boom! No one hurt but very very scary and could have been allot worse. Not everything gets reported.

 

[candy cupcake]

If doug schoon says it is ok to warm in water, wonder what he would say about other non electric heat sources (wheat bags etc)...

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[geeg]

If doug schoon says it is ok to warm in water, wonder what he would say about other non electric heat sources (wheat bags etc)...

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Why not ask him direct on FB?

 

[mum]

Of course I understand all the technical information given.

BUT can I just ask...particularly geeg and mum in all your years in this industry using acetone warming it with the double bowl method or in handisoak bowls to remove L&P and now using it in wraps with some form of warmth added have you ever heard of it combusting?
Just one instance, at all ever ?

No, never. And, in years gone by I have used warm water. BUT, I think the point here is an understanding of the chemicals we use. E.G the water is WARM, not hot. If acetone is warmed to slightly above room temperature then the vapours will be wider spread. Electrical equipment does pose a hazard (what about soaking 1 hand in a bowl or warm acetone and 'firing up' a UV lamp?) A towel over the bowl contains the vapours but when the towel is lifted to check? A concentration of vapours is released.

Nails that are wrapped have a small amount of acetone more contained. A wheat bag to keep the hands warm in cold weather isn't going to pose too much of a hazard.

It is the understanding that is key here. Know the risks that can occur under certain circumstances and make everything as safe as possible. It isn't difficult and modern products and their removal make it even easier!

 

[virtues2011]

Back to me here (although Graham is nearby)........

Acetone boils at circa 45 degrees C - tap water is circa 60 degrees C ...if your tap water is too hot the bowl in which the acetone is applied (along with clients fingers can start boiling!) even if the water that the acetone bowl sits in does not seem that hot.

As for wheat bags, how would you monitor the temperature? this, like the above is going to be more luck than judgement.

Enough from me on this thread.... x

 

[candy cupcake]

Great idea geeg!

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[VHunter]

A big thank you to Graham is in order for his time in explaining things, cheers dude x

YES THANK YOU GRAHAM!!

I LOVE factual answers with proven & irrefutable science behind them.
THANK YOU!
I will be copying and pasting from this thread that most valuable information for future reference.
Your contribution was invaluable!
Thank you to your wife for dragging you into this.

 

[willowrose]

The boiling point of acetone is 56.2 degrees.

For those who aren’t clear boiling point is the temperature at which a liquid changes form and becomes either vapours or gas.

The danger of vapours is they’re unseen. However, for them to cause problems you would still need an ignition source: a flame.

In the case of acetone the atmosphere has to be at least 2.5% vapour filled to ignite if the fictional flame was produced. Due to circulating air & minimal quantities of acetone a salon environment is likely to never reach that level of saturation.

Vapours are more of a concern in containers, storage warehouses & factories. They are dangerous when storing mass quantities in confined spaces with no air circulation.

Human skin touch sensitivity figures are widely documented. The majority of human skin feels significant discomfort beyond 35+ degrees & burns when subjected to continued contact with heat beyond 45+ degrees.

Mitts designed for use on humans have an extremely low maximum heated temperature. Around 30 degrees (dependent on model/manufacturer). The cut-off thermostat is in this range as the main purpose of mitts is enhanced comfort.

The maximum temperature of mitts is 25+ degrees below the boiling point of acetone. So there is 0% chance that vapours could be produced from their use.

Roughly 15ml of acetone is used in a standard wrap removal. If one did torture a client in mitts that aren’t manufactured that quantity of acetone converted into vapours would barely permeate beyond the mitts themselves. That takes into account trailing vapours which Mr Virtues has mentioned but not contextualised for you.

Yes, acetone vapour density is 2. This means it is heavier than air & sinks causing trailing vapour. But because the amount of acetone present is around 15ml it would mean the vapours would travel approximately 1ft!

So the flame, which isn’t present, in an atmospheric condition of extreme torturous heat, which is impossible to create with mitts, would need to be right next to the wrapped hands to possibly cause a fire. I say possibly because the surrounding atmosphere would then need to be at least 2.5% vapour filled & that in itself is extremely unlikely.

There is a reason we never hear of mitt related acetone fires & injuries in salons. It’s because they don’t occur. Use them as instructed & it is scientifically impossible.

Use mitts, don’t use mitts. But a decision should not be reached from Mr Virtues’ post. It isn’t scientific or accurate.

One is not an expert because they work with chemicals?! An expert is someone with a PhD in a related speciality. I have an M.Sc & certainly I’m not an expert; just enough of a scientist to feel the need to correct misinformation presented as “expert” testimony.

 

[curvygirl]

can't this thread be closed now.. ?

 

[geeg]

can't this thread be closed now.. ?

I agree .. I think the last informational post was nasty and insulting and with less authority than the info already given by Grahm. Lots of googling and then posting which doesn't make anyone an expert even if they think they sound like one.

People can make up their own minds as to whether or not they want to go the heated mitt route.

 

[Mad_4_Massage]

Slightly off topic but thought id give you all a acetone horror story scare haha,
When i was working in a salon ages ago a 'experienced' therapist was soaking off a set of nails using the tin foil wrap method and i nipped in the back get a cuppa, when i came out the client was gone, so i asked where she'd gone as she'd only just finished wrapping the nails with acetone and she responded (Exact words!) ;

"oh she's just nipped outside to have a smoke while they're soaking"

So the client was planning on lighting a smoke WITH THE ACETONE WRAPS STILL ON!!

Honest to god i've never ran so fast, got to her just as she was about light her smoke! Told her how flammable the acetone was and she was shocked as the other therapist told her it'd be okay. Think i aged about ten years!

Dont know if she would have caught fire but it wasnt a risk i was willing take!!