NVQ debate in PN August 2005

[The Geek]

HowdA All,

I was excited to get this months PN as I know Kat worked hard to cram many aspects of education into it as possible (and I think she did a superb job!).

I really like the NVQ 'debate' at the end where Lisa and I offer differing view points towards the NVQ and its meaning to the industry. What I would like to open for discussion is your viewpoints on the matter.

I know we have had pros and cons and many discussions about the NVQ in the past, however I am very interested at this stage to get some constructive discussions going about what would help the NVQ be better than it already is.

Is it already there? Is it almost there? Is it way off mark?

Whats your views and why?

 

[angel.tips]

Don't like the way that beauty is sneaking in as I thought the nail industry was trying to break away.

Think that I preferred the old one but agree there should be different levels and that you can add on..............but not beauty.

 

[kittenclaws]

i got my nvq folder 2 weeks ago, im doing level 2 and 3 (all 7 units) and my god im confused with it, im seriously thinking of putting it on the back boiler, there are a lot of bits in it that are basically the same and thene there are bits that just dont make sence, maybe im just a divvy tart:o

 

[naturalnails]

I am all for a standard within the industry, if it contributes to improve that industry.

As we have heard many, many times before, the NVQ seems to be only as good as the person who is either teaching towards it or assessing it.

If the NVQ is going to be the be all and end all of nail education and the holy grail to attain to then will all the nail companies accept it as the acceptable standard wherever it is obtained - I think not!

In an ideal world I would prefer to see an acceptable standard within the nail companies where they all sing from the same song sheet and give education that is on a par with each other.

Yes, I know I may be living in cloud cuckoo land LOL.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

waaaah! My Pn subs expired as I didn't renew my ANT membership so missed the article- will have to renew at Earls Court.

 

[mum]

Goodness, I could write another book on what I think about the new NVQ but will try to be concise!

I think having a nails NVQ structure is definately going in the right way but don't think it is quite right yet. It still has too much of a 'beauty' slant for my liking and there is too much emphasis on nail art instead of putting the majority of learning and skill levels into natural nails and 'naturally artificial' nails.

If 10% of the population are clients or potential clients, I would guess that less than 10% of them have any interest in nail art which makes a very small market. The 10% needs to be grown first with high levels of skill generating lots of confidence.

The quality of any course is always dependant on the quality of the teacher si it is up to the nail industry to generate more good teachers!

I have always been a strong supporter of NVQ's. The industry MUST have a recogniseable qualification and the government put their support in the NVQ structure which is being changed and refined all the time.

No it's not right yet but a professional industry sector needs a good career route. It's no good just complaining that it's not right and not doing anything. I'm prepared to support it and help to make it better and more relevant to the industry. If we all got behind it we could create a great professional career with clear education routes instead of the utter confusion that appears on this site every day.

The 'THEY' that need to make it right are actually US

 

[Tracey Park]

i agree with GMG in regards to the articale in PN.

my views on this are my own and i will try to explain how i feel, im no expert here but from where i am as a beauty therapist and nail tech i feel the following :

when starting out in the industry all i was mainly interested in to begin with was NAIL TECH, so knowing nothing about doing any foundation courses etc i went to the first call of port being my local college. they advised me that in order to do nail nech i needed a manicure/pedicure certificate to do this. so after waying up the options. i opted to do my nvq level 2 in beauty therapy which includes BT7 & 8 which meant i could go on to do nail tech.

sorry this is going to be long winded

the course was ok, not exactly what i wanted to do but i would do anything to do nail tech so i persevered with it, i did enjoy it but there are aspects that i have learned that i would never use again. i went on to do nail tech and loved it and have since done other nail related courses as well. It just seems that in order to do the one thing i really wanted i had to go round the houses to do it.

i feel that the nvq in nail services is a very good idea, however the other beauty add ons are to me a total waste of time if all you want to do is nails. as i am mainly home based i do offer eye treatments, facials and tanning. this is also mainly because thats what i learnt first and dont want to waste it having spent a year learning it.

to be the best in any area and this includes facials, holistics nails etc i feel that it is best to specialize in that field and lean all you can imporving your skills continually. you wouldnt train to be a heart surgeon and then in your free time be a opticitan. wrong analergy prob and spelling is horrendous but i hope you get the idea.

i personally feel that the nvq is a great idea, however for all of us that have started from nothing and this includes every nail tech in the world, i hope that you will agree with me when i say that you only start to really get to grips with it once you have passed your nvq and are working in the 'real world'. i would think it would take approx a year maybe to be truly proficient in your chosen area of nails. would it not be better then to have a nvq for these people that have been working as nails techs for a period of time.

naming no specific nail company here but they start of with induction training, and then foundation and you have to wait for a year before you do your masters training. this to me is more sensible as you get more knowledge and practice before moving on. you are proficient. anybody could do a nvq in nail services in a local college to level 3 but most of these courses are not taught by working nail techs they are taught by beauty therapists who do nails. manicure and pedicure should come out of the beauty threshold and be under the nail services.

i know that you can do the nvq at the sat ant centres but you do have to pay for this where at a college it is free for full time courses. but the standard of training is not always as high as it may be a sat ant centre as there you will get working nail techs teaching and advising you.

i would love to be able to do my nails services nvq but my local college is offering it but are using a product that i would have to purchase to complete the course with that i would never use again as i am already qualified in l&p and gel and use what i feel to be the best in the industry and why should i settle for anything less. the training would also not be to the standard that i have been taught so would be a complete waste of time. to do it at a ant centre would work out over my budget , ive already done, bt7 , bt8, g1, g6 etc. i have been through it with a advisor and i can not afford it so hopefully by waiting it will either change or goverment funding will help me acheive it.

knowing what i know now. i would of gone straight down the nail route and not in the back door through beauty. i do enjoy what i do but have a passion for nails more. being mobile and home based though it have provided me with a extra niche as i could not survive on doing nails alone.

nails services should be what it states - nails only - hands and feet - natural and enhancements - no add ons -

my views but would love to hear what you all have to say

 

[mum]

As a little clarifiction to the above, the Nail Services can be done as totally nails and no beauty what so ever. Every NVQ has mandatory units plus a number of optional units. With this one the options can be chosen that keeps it pure nails

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

As a little clarifiction to the above, the Nail Services can be done as totally nails and no beauty what so ever. Every NVQ has mandatory units plus a number of optional units. With this one the options can be chosen that keeps it pure nails

Please be patient with me here as I'm a novice geek and haven't done an NVQ and know little about it. However, based on what I've read about the new Nail NVQ it seems that the only optional unit in level 2 which does not involve beauty is G4 Reception Duties. Not much of a choice as I am mobile and not interested in any of the other optional units.

 

[Cathie!]

I'm like Sassy and haven't seen this article cos my subs has run out......

But as far as the NVQ is concerned, based on what I've read so far, I'll wait until they get it sorted until I do mine.

I'm still unconvinced that a National standard will improve the industry in this country, but until the national standard can be consistent then I'm not going to waste my dollars on doing it.

Even though I've not read the article, I believe that there will (in the future) be people who have take the NVQ....even when it may be a national standard or even a licencing requirement, that don't really care about doing the best job they can, but just care about the dollars....(sorry about the dollars thing, but my 4 year old is obsessed by dollars, he can't get the concept of the pound....too much Cartoon Network me thinks....) and that will always be there.

In any regulated industry, there are those with commitment and integrity and those who just want to make some money and regardless of a national standard, which people will take to enable themselves to 'get in' to the industry, there will still be the charlatans who just want to take your money and fly with the consequences. Just look at Pensions mis-selling and dodgy endowments...and financial services has been regulated for many years with a minimum stardard..the Financial Palnning Certificate and a self-regulatory body.

Another issue I have is how the NVQ tutors will be educated and regulated...who can become an NVQ assessor? Could I just pay for and do the course and become one? There are so many posts on here about under par college tutors...will the NVQ tutors and assessors be the same?

I guess in conclusion, I am not convinced, despite the efforts of the Geeks on this site, Mum especially who is gallantly fighting the corner and Chocolate too that the NVQ is the way forward, until it can be proved to be the standard that it deems to be.

 

[mum]

Two little answers:

For a full NVQ, the correct number of units must be taken. (Units can be taken individually but will not result in a full NVQ. This has been the case with B19 etc before; it is not an NVQ, just a unit)

Reception duties relates to the industry in general as the majority or work is done in salons. But, it does also relate to mobile as it covers making bookings, taking payment etc.

Cathie, I tend to agree with you (last bit). I think everyone has a reasonable confidence in hairdressing qualifications but these used to be dire! What has brought them to the acceptable standard they are today is the hair industry.

Maybe NVQ will turn out to be not the way for us (but with it being the only funded way for now, it is the best option) but if the whole industry waited for it to get better before it was accepted, we may not have an industry as we know it. It could pop right back to beauty because that sector is on the road to taking responsibility for its standards.

I will continue to fight the corner because it is one small area in this world that I may be able to help to make things better. I complain about politics but do nothing about it because I don't know enough. I complain about nails but know a bit about that so that's what I'll do.

As I said, the 'they' that need to make it better are 'US'

 

[Urban Geek]

The fact that the new NVQ has so many failings is, I am sure, a major deterrant to many nail technicians pursuing it. Why bother? Surely, it is in the nail industry's interests to have a properly recognised qualification independent of product companies. Why oh why do all those 'leaders' in the industry not get their acts together and act in the true interests of the nail industry rather in their own individual interests. Did the NVQ board not liaise with other sectors of the nail industry before finalising the new NVQ?

If we are trying to give a professional image of the nail industry, the fact that the new NVQ is so criticised spells out UNPROFESSIONALISM to me.

I will not be doing any further NVQ training until it is resepcted, accepted and recognised as a worthy qualification right across the nail industry. There are many more worthy ways for me to invest my money!

 

[mum]

Well I have to respond to that one don't I Chris!

The "so called 'leaders'" have always been consulted about what is right for the industry but those 'leaders' have not been willing, in the past, to give any of their time. (I have given years of my time to education but have to admit that the only time I gave to this set of Standards is via the consultation process but HABIA were still struggling to get any of this)

What I have been saying in this thread when I refer to 'US' is that it is nothing to do with 'leaders', it is to do with every person in the industry. Why is it the fault of the so called 'leaders'? Who are they?

HABIA conducted an extensive consultation process for these Standards. The majority of responses came back from FE and mostly those with a beauty base. The nail industry response was very small.

If the nail industry does not get behind something, there will be nothing!

Again: the faceless 'THEY' are 'US'. Every single person in this industry has a voice. A simple example is the survey (see GMG's news thread). The Nails Forum is open to all and has been widely advertised. The mags are always asking for views.

There is no excuse for anyone other than a complete 'newbie' to sit back and complain it's wrong. Nothing will change unless enough people give an opinion to what is right

 

[fiona wallace]

Apparently, it's SVQ up here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scottish Vocational Qualification - I have been confused by it all for years, am still confused, all of the students that have been through our Creative courses and previously gained SVQ through college had a disgraceful knowledge of nails, enhancements and the industry as a whole and felt the need for FURTHER training, I am shocked at the level of education still happening in the colleges in Scotland and am frustrated that the Government-backed financial assistance will not recognise or assist people with our Training Courses even though I know them to be effective, safe and thorough, unlike their own college-based courses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

I still havn't received my PN for August, renewed my subscription a while ago, so I am non the wiser as to what the article said...... can someone enlighten me lol...... even better enlighten my by scanning it and sending it to me..... please pretty please.......
Thanks guys xxxx

 

[Diana Williamson]

i got my nvq folder 2 weeks ago, im doing level 2 and 3 (all 7 units) and my god im confused with it, im seriously thinking of putting it on the back boiler, there are a lot of bits in it that are basically the same and thene there are bits that just dont make sence, maybe im just a divvy tart:o

I have just copleted my level 3 and ,no you arent a divvy tart alot of it is the same just plough through it thats what you have to do!Go on the internet yiu will find most of the answers,what reference books have you got?if you need help you are quite welcome to mail me i will try and help are you doing it at home ,if so try to set some time aside to do it ,its a drag however you will learn so much from it what bits dont make sense to youdo a section at a time if you cant find the answer ,answer the ones you can you will find when you start your research a lot of the ? you will find while your working on the others ,if that makes sense! good luck Diana [email protected]

 

[jac extreme]

When I first began my training in 2000 at a SAT centre near me, I was encouraged to sit My NVQ alongside the training,which I did, I got two thirds of the way through it and was then offered a job in a salon and the NVQ got pushed to the back of my mind, I cannot finish it now as it is obsolete.

I would love to see some sort of nationally recognized qualification. one which proved that I had not only the skills but also the knowledge in my chosen career. I think if we all get behind it and give it our support it can be achieved.

 

[Diana Williamson]

When I first began my training in 2000 at a SAT centre near me, I was encouraged to sit My NVQ alongside the training,which I did, I got two thirds of the way through it and was then offered a job in a salon and the NVQ got pushed to the back of my mind, I cannot finish it now as it is obsolete.

I would love to see some sort of nationally recognized qualification. one which proved that I had not only the skills but also the knowledge in my chosen career. I think if we all get behind it and give it our support it can be achieved.

Cant you use some of the work youve already done ,youmust have your research books,it really is worth doing
Diana

 

[jac extreme]

Not sure as it has changed quite a lot, what I did do is not recognised now, so would have to start from scratch and use my old work as reference.

 

[Urban Geek]

My current NVQ would be valid towards the new NVQ for a period of 2 years from the date I passed.

(I am still awaiting my certificate 6 months after completing my final assessment!!!)