Paying staff for training

[Lucy-Jayne]

I'm on one tonight starting threads.

I have recently taken over a salon and changed our skin care range. The old one was never being asked for so I thought it about time. I now have to send one of my girls on the facial course which lasts one week Mon-Fri. This girl only normally works a maximum of 20 hours a week as she is on WTC.

Just looking for some advice really as to how anyone in my situation would pay her for the week that she's doing. A few scenarios:

a) Pay her for the whole time that she's there (35 hours) I know with WTC we'd just increase her hourly wage so she wouldn't be penalised.

b) Pay her for the 20 hours she normally works.

c) Don't pay at all cos she's not actually working ! ( i wouldn't do this but the previous owner did!)

Now, at the moment all she's doing is waxing, so this is a great opportunity for her to gain more knowledge of a skin care brand. I know some people pay them just their hours and expect the rest of them to not be paid for so that the employee shows that they're willing to learn and work for you.

On top of everything else should I pay for her train fare for the week (about £60) and lunches? I'm not sure ion the lunches one because she normally brings her own to work anyway!

What do you all think, or what have you done?

Thanks again

L-J

 

[Zingara]

Or give her paid time off in lieu of the extra hours....then that wouldn't affect her WTC? Is that an option. You could always insist on approving the hours off, make sure they are quiet ones.

Otherwise, I personally would pay her the extra.....I always follow the saying

'Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself'...

and tbh, if anyone expected me to put a full week in without some form of recompense for it....I'd be looking for a new job!

Good luck...am sure you'll find the right thing for you both x

 

[Blue Rose]

I'd pay her for the hours she spends in training. She might not 'be working' as such but she is still working to your eventual benefit by being able to do more treatments, therefore eventually earning you more income.

I wouldn't pay for lunches as that is something they'd have to pay for anyway.

As for travel expenses, I would perhaps try & negotiate 50/50. If she kicked off, then pay 100% (it's always worth a try getting away with paying out less, lol).

BTW, what about accomodation? Strictly speaking, if she needs to stay over, you should pay for that aswell.

If all that is making your heart beat faster, you could always make it a part of your staff contracts that they have to repay training costs if they leave your employ within a certain time of training.

 

[Lucy-Jayne]

It's in London and we're 20 mins away by train.

I suppose I'm just a bit worried about them leaving with their new skills. It's not costing anything for the training (apart from a minimum opening order) so there would be nothing to repay. I'd like to think of some clause though otherwise I could get completely screwed over!

 

[Zingara]

How about something like you will pay her for the full hours of training, however, should she go and work for another salon with the same product range in the next 12 months she repays those hours.

 

[Blue Rose]

It's in London and we're 20 mins away by train.

I suppose I'm just a bit worried about them leaving with their new skills. It's not costing anything for the training (apart from a minimum opening order) so there would be nothing to repay. I'd like to think of some clause though otherwise I could get completely screwed over!

I know the feeling.

I can't think off hand the wording in my contract but there is defo something in there about recouping expenses for training. Although by the sounds of it, all you have to pay out is a few extra hours & train fare.

I think as long as you are fair but firm, you shouldn't have a problem with her leaving to go elsewhere with her new skills.

Perhaps you could arrange some incentives for her to do more facials to use her new skills?

 

[kerry33]

For training we were always paid for the hours worked while training and travel expenses were covered too.In our contracts there was a clause in which if we left within a year of the training we had to repay our course costs.Ive had this in most salons ive worked in over the years so this seems to be the common thing alot of employers do.hth

 

[Lucy-Jayne]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I think it would work out about £200 for the week if she was to leave and I was to ask for it back. It doesn't sound like a lot does it? I'd just pay up and sod off!

The other thing is, the other girl I have working for me works only 7 hours a week. I've been putting of sending her on the course because I just don't think it's worth it. We're not losing out on any business by not having her on the course because I can do the treatments, but I'm not sure how to approach it with her. any ideas on this one?

 

[Zingara]

You're the boss, why do you have to explain it to her? If she asks, just tell her its a business decision based on the economics of it and if anything changes you'll let her know.

 

[Blue Rose]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I think it would work out about £200 for the week if she was to leave and I was to ask for it back. It doesn't sound like a lot does it? I'd just pay up and sod off!

The other thing is, the other girl I have working for me works only 7 hours a week. I've been putting of sending her on the course because I just don't think it's worth it. We're not losing out on any business by not having her on the course because I can do the treatments, but I'm not sure how to approach it with her. any ideas on this one?

Does she want to go on the course? If she did could she do any more hours to make it viable? Are there the clients for more hours? If no to those questions, then I wouldn't send her on the course. As aleady mentioned, it's all about economics.

 

[Susie H]

hun, someone on wtc would find a £60 train fare far to expensive, and if you are that worried then I suggest you go on the course your self and then teach your staff.
Honestly I am finding it hard to comprehend this, you are giving her an opportunity to extend her skills, showing you trust her, building a good relationship with her, she will obviously come back and show the rest of you how to get the best out of this product range all of which is hard work and yet you're hesitating to give her a lunch allowance or pay her the full hours.
Look at it from her point of view, why should she have to pay for anything when its you who wants her to go, why should she put in 35 hours and only get paid 20 and why should she have to sit with her sandwiches when others are going to the pub or what ever? She may prefer her sandwiches but I think she should have the choice.
I really hope I haven't offended you, I'm trying not to come across as harsh but I'm also trying to be fair:hug:

 

[Lucy-Jayne]

From the experience that I've had with people on WTC (and by this I DON'T mean everyone!) is that the benefits given sometimes get wasted on a lot of different things. I'd like to think that people pay a certain amount to get to work anyway (and this girl does) and anything extra should be paid by me. I know I'll pay for the whole train ticket, that's just me.

I'm already trained with the company but if I was just to pass on the skills myself, I'd get shot. I'd not be conforming to my contract and this is the same with a lot of companies.

I hope it didn't come across in the beginning that i was making out that I didn't want to pay. But I've heard different things from different people on this subject and am just looking round to see what other people have done in the past.

I've been having a lot of problems with my staff. Both of which are supposed to be fully trained but I keep having issues arise where it works out that they need to be trained more and with more reputable companies. As I took them on with the business I have to keep them. It wasn't a requirement that I interviewed them when I took over and now if I'd have interviewed them from off the street, there's a chance that I'd not have given them the jobs.

I've had to do this with a number of courses, not because I'm just changing everything, but because these girls need more training and I'm just doing it with reputable brands.

I suppose I'm getting a bit fed up of paying out when these girls should be trained to a suitable standard!

 

[Zo Zo]

From the experience that I've had with people on WTC (and by this I DON'T mean everyone!) is that the benefits given sometimes get wasted on a lot of different things. I'd like to think that people pay a certain amount to get to work anyway (and this girl does) and anything extra should be paid by me. I know I'll pay for the whole train ticket, that's just me.

It is actually up to each individual what they 'waste' their money on :lol:

I'm already trained with the company but if I was just to pass on the skills myself, I'd get shot. I'd not be conforming to my contract and this is the same with a lot of companies.

I hope it didn't come across in the beginning that i was making out that I didn't want to pay. But I've heard different things from different people on this subject and am just looking round to see what other people have done in the past.

I've been having a lot of problems with my staff. Both of which are supposed to be fully trained but I keep having issues arise where it works out that they need to be trained more and with more reputable companies. As I took them on with the business I have to keep them. It wasn't a requirement that I interviewed them when I took over and now if I'd have interviewed them from off the street, there's a chance that I'd not have given them the jobs.

I do hope they don't read this. It's pretty personal.

I've had to do this with a number of courses, not because I'm just changing everything, but because these girls need more training and I'm just doing it with reputable brands.

I suppose I'm getting a bit fed up of paying out when these girls should be trained to a suitable standard!

In fairness, it's not their fault you didn't check them out before agreeing to keep them on in the business.

It's pretty standard for an employer to pay for staff training, including travel expenses and lunch allowance. You've said it amounts to about £200 (not inc lunch.) That is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things and will hopefully engender goodwill if you give it freely. Jmho.

 

[hippy-chick]

I would pay for the whole thing, its tax deductable isn't it?

I think its common practise to get it written into a contract though about repaying the costs if they leave within a certain time.

If I was going to be training for an employer, I would expect course, travel and accomodation paid for, not necessarily anything towards food, but it wouldn't harm to give her a food allowance.

someone I know was sent on a week's caci course, she had to pay for all her own food and travel and had no time off in lieu. another member of staff got sent on a 1 day course and got time off in lieu, a food allowance, travel etc.

 

[fozzyo]

Can I just ask, what's WTC?

When I worked in IT if I went on any training courses I would expect the company to pick up all bills, if they didn't I didn't go. This included evening entertainment (cinema etc) if I had to stay in a hotel. They were bigger companies so slightly different, but generally if your staff are going on training then you really should cover their costs.

The contractual arrangements for getting costs back if they left, I worked for a very large commercial law firm (largest in the South West) for a while, and they were great at sending us on training - spent a lot of money on it. However they never had any cost recovery clause in a contract as they are so incredibly difficult to enforce - what are you going to do if they employee leaves and refuses to pay?

For any business owner or manager there is a really really important phrase that is all too often ignored - train to retain. If you have good staff who like working with you by investing in them they will reward your loyalty, a small percentage will take the training and run but if training forms part of a continuous development programme they usually love it.

You also said you weren't sure about what to do for the other member of staff who only does 7 hours, if you are to also go on the training you will have 2 fully trained therapists in the skin care treatments. Generally most of these companies will have other training that staff can also go on - do they offer any other courses?

Good luck
Mat xx

 

[Kim Lawless]

Whenever this question is asked, I always think of it like this:-

If you worked in an office and they sent you on a course, you'd get your normal pay and expenses. I don't see that it should be any different when working in a salon. They're not asking to go on the course and it's to benefit your business.

Maybe you should ask yourself if they all really need to go on the course.

It's hard having your own biz isn't it, but you're doing so well LJ. xxx:hug:

 

[Peter Pan]

in our salon - if and when we sent for training - our boss pays for the full week (or however long the training is) but if one of us leaves within a set time we have to pay back the full cost of training PLUS we not allowed to work within a set mile range

which i think is fair

 

[Zo Zo]

Can I just ask, what's WTC?

It's Working Tax Credit Mat. It's for people who work, but on relatively low incomes. Normally for people with kids I think. It also pays apercentage of childcare costs.

 

[Lucy-Jayne]

In fairness, it's not their fault you didn't check them out before agreeing to keep them on in the business.

Thanks for your comments Zo Zo.

When taking over an existing business, you're not allowed to interview the staff you're taking over. It's not a case of me just checking this out. I would expect trained therapists to know what they're going on about though, and not have to put them on further courses.

I've also brought this up with all members of my staff. I wouldn't post on this forum if there was a chance they could read it and be surprised about what I was talking about.

 

[Lucy-Jayne]

in our salon - if and when we sent for training - our boss pays for the full week (or however long the training is) but if one of us leaves within a set time we have to pay back the full cost of training PLUS we not allowed to work within a set mile range

which i think is fair

Thanks Glynis, definitely a good point to put into a contract. Sounds to me like the best option so far.