Recent Problem with Nails

[Gayle13]

Hi there,

I feel a bit lost and I always admired the good advice on salongeek.com, and I would be very grateful if someone can help me

I have owned my own salon for a year and a half now and I have built a reputation on the fact that the nails of my clients never lift. I have managed to double my clientele in 4 months solely on referrral (word of mouth) marketing.

For the past 3 months or so I started seeing lifting in nails, in the beginning I didn't think much of it but it started happening to a lot of my clients. It started getting serious and then I starting changing everything to pinpoint where the problem was coming from. I reverted to EzFlow Products, I used to use Creative before.

I don't know where to turn to and I lost about 20% of my clientele. I am posting some photos of a recent client below, maybe you can tell me what is wrong.

Click on the link to see photos.

Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Photo 4

Your reply would be greatly appreciated

Gayle

 

[TIPTOP]

Hi and welcome to the site hun, in order for us all to help please can you take us through your prep routine and application and then we can see where you may need tweaking.

Sue xx

 

[Gayle13]

hi, thanks for the reply.

i start prep with pushing back of cuticle using a metal chisle
then i go round with the drill on low speed (1st light) and diamond prepper bit (this also removes the shine). If there is lifting, i remove that with a small carbite bit (medium) before the prepper.
i dehydrate with scrub fresh (taking about 5 secs for each nail)
acid free primer
acrylic application - im quite comfortable with the mix ratio and product control,
then shaping and filing of nails - usually i start off with sides and free edge, and i mostly concentrate on proper product application so it reduces filing time and energy! if there are any bumps or acrylic is thick in one spot i refine that with a carbite bit.
then i go around the cuticle with a fine prepper bit and clean under the nails with the drill.
then refining with buffer, and last cuticle oil.

what im mostly concerned about is that i ve been doing same routing for well over a year and was always happy with results, now im doing the same and getting very different results!

here are some pics of the happier times with nails

Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3

Thanks in advance.

Gayle

 

[Bagpuss]

Hiya ... Pic 2 in your second post....there looks like there is too much product in zone 3...and too close to the skin. I would use a smaller bead and leave a bigger margin around the nail. I would also ditch using the e-file in this area and on the natural nail as there are marks on the nails (rings of fire)....this will thin the nail plate and the thinner the nail plate the more problems you will get...the better the foundations the better the enhancements.

Try using a soft 240 or even finer buffer for zone 3..this will help to blend the product flush to the nail.

So just to clarify...i think your problems might be down to zone 3 being too thick and too close.

 

[~Emmsybabes~]

Hi there,

I reverted to EzFlow Products, I used to use Creative before.

Gayle

i dehydrate with scrub fresh (taking about 5 secs for each nail)
acid free primer
acrylic application - im quite comfortable with the mix ratio and product control,

Hi hun, are you using scrubfresh and CND acid free primer with ezflow liquid and powder ???

 

[Gayle13]

no, i used scrubfresh & acid free primer with creative, and ez bond and ez primer with ezflow.

also somewhere in the tutorials i read that with creative there s no need to use primer all the time. does it actually harm the nail if i use it on all clients?
and im also concerned about how the lifting is happening, is seems like the acrylic is well adhered to the nail, but the natural nail is peeling underneath, so when it peels it is taking the acrylic off with it. sometimes 3 or more nails are coming off within a week!

thanks for your replies!

 

[Bagpuss]

The first pictures in your first post...those nails don't look healthy to me...cant put my finger on 1 thing but the skin just above the cuticle looks red and raised...the nails look very dry and discoloured...with what i think looks like some Onycholysis on some.

 

[busybee32]

The first pictures in your first post...those nails don't look healthy to me...cant put my finger on 1 thing but the skin just above the cuticle looks red and raised...the nails look very dry and discoloured...with what i think looks like some Onycholysis on some.

Thats what I thought Ange.
Also looks slightly fungaly maybe, very yellowed and discoloured on a couple of them.
Have you been trained on using an e file?.
I think you should knock it on the head if this is what is happening with 20% of your client base, e files without the proper training can cause more damage.
Have the clients who you are having poblems with got any new medcal conditions or new meds? that can affect the nails sometimes.
But deffo those pics that you posted originally do not look healthy at all they look really damaged and un healthy.
Jen xx

 

[Gayle13]

that s why im worried - does not look like normal lifting. as regards to onycholysis - don t think it is - when i soaked off the acrylic, the smile line looks normal, as does the hyponechium from underneath. i think it s pocket lifting in zone 2 that shows like that in the picture. the nail was very dry and flakey when i took it off.

Gayle

 

[marioned]

Don't know either why you are having such lifting, but I'd agree that the nails don't look healthy. I'd also ditch the efile, until you have had training or further training with it. I can see rings of fire in the pictures in your second post too.
Marion :hug:

 

[Annebet]

Hi they look like they got a yellowish tinge to them, has she had her hands in bleach is she a cleaner, this happened to a friend of mine a couple of times and she was using bleach to clean all her tops and didn't wear gloves so I buy them for her and she takes them with her when she leaves, problem went.

 

[pinktnb]

HI there,
By the looks of things i would say that the product is maybe applied to close to the skin and maybe touching the cuticle, easy done.
Are you applying primer over the acrylic, or product over the top of left over polish? This can sometimes cause yellowing.
If i have a problem i tend to start the clients nails as if i were teaching myself again. For instance the size of your balls and the zones you are using them in.
Dont worry, trial and error sometimes with some clients.
Good luck hun x

 

[geeg]

Hiya ... Pic 2 in your second post....there looks like there is too much product in zone 3...and too close to the skin. I would use a smaller bead and leave a bigger margin around the nail. I would also ditch using the e-file in this area and on the natural nail as there are marks on the nails (rings of fire)....this will thin the nail plate and the thinner the nail plate the more problems you will get...the better the foundations the better the enhancements.

Try using a soft 240 or even finer buffer for zone 3..this will help to blend the product flush to the nail.

So just to clarify...i think your problems might be down to zone 3 being too thick and too close.

I absolutely agree with Angie's post. I think the problem is the efile use on the natural nail because that is what you are using on everyone and you say you are having problems with all clients not just a few.

You must be thinning the nail plate in the most vulnerable part of the nail and I think this is your main problem. Thinning of the nail pate causes lifting and the kind of damage that is visible in the photos.

Certainly your prep with a drill was not taught to you by CND and it is a shame to have changed your products when there was no need.

I have to pass the comment that the nails in the 'happier' photos look in an entirely different class to the ones with the lifting!! both in the look of the nails and the look of the product.

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

I may be way off the mark...but is there any chance this could be over-exposure? I think the ladies fingers in the first lot of pictures look quite red and sore in general...does she have a skin condition? And lets face it the nails look horrendous...total opposite to the second lot of pictures...those stripey ones are really gorgeous.
And the yellowing....again I may be way of the mark but could this be brush contamination? are you using a different brush for each system?
I hope someone on here can help you find the answers id be very interested to know myself...hope you get it sorted x

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

I absolutely agree with Angie's post. I think the problem is the efile use on the natural nail because that is what you are using on everyone and you say you are having problems with all clients not just a few.

You must be thinning the nail plate in the most vulnerable part of the nail and I think this is your main problem. Thinning of the nail pate causes lifting and the kind of damage that is visible in the photos.

Certainly your prep with a drill was not taught to you by CND and it is a shame to have changed your products when there was no need.

I have to pass the comment that the nails in the 'happier' photos look in an entirely different class to the ones with the lifting!! both in the look of the nails and the look of the product.

Ah just the person! didnt see you there :lol:

So what is all the yellowing do you think?

 

[geeg]

I may be way off the mark...but is there any chance this could be over-exposure? I think the ladies fingers in the first lot of pictures look quite red and sore in general...does she have a skin condition? And lets face it the nails look horrendous...total opposite to the second lot of pictures...those stripey ones are really gorgeous.
And the yellowing....again I may be way of the mark but could this be brush contamination? are you using a different brush for each system?
I hope someone on here can help you find the answers id be very interested to know myself...hope you get it sorted x

I was under the impression from the original post that this problem was happening to the majority of clients not just one. Certainly I agree that the skin also looks very dry around these particular nails but the lifting I think is due to the thinning of the plate and the other drill damage that can clearly be seen.

Yellowing could be due to contaminated brush or the product ageing or incorrect mix etc etc.

 

[xAnnaBannAx]

I was under the impression from the original post that this problem was happening to the majority of clients not just one. Certainly I agree that the skin also looks very dry around these particular nails but the lifting I think is due to the thinning of the plate and the other drill damage that can clearly be seen.

Yellowing could be due to contaminated brush or the product ageing or incorrect mix etc etc.

I can see the drill marks on one of the good sets as well actually but I never realised over use of a drill could cause all that lifting....ive found that most of the people that I know that have been to an nss for instance..one of their main comments is that the nails last and stay on for ages which apart from other possibilities I put down to the fact they usually well and truely drill the natural nails first.........I myself when I USED to (lol) go to an NSS never had problems with lifting from the nails theyd given me...so what im asking is......can it go both ways? Can it cause excessive adhesion (is there such a thing?) as well as terrible lifting? or does the fact these nss nails staying on have nothing to do with the drill being used?

Am I thinking too much this time of the morning...im in danger of learning something before 9am lol

 

[mdskora]

I would agree totally with what has been said.... even thro the rainbow nails are beautiful and look great.. the nail beds are still very red looking and there are rings that you can see even in a photo...
Stop using the efile and go back to using a very very soft file on ALL your clients.. I know it might take a little longer to do an infill./... much quicker than finding new clients once the word is out..
sorry to be so harsh but I agree that the thinning of the natural nail over time is your problem... also CND is a great product... stick with what you know
X Mel

 

[geeg]

I can see the drill marks on one of the good sets as well actually but I never realised over use of a drill could cause all that lifting....ive found that most of the people that I know that have been to an nss for instance..one of their main comments is that the nails last and stay on for ages which apart from other possibilities I put down to the fact they usually well and truely drill the natural nails first.........I myself when I USED to (lol) go to an NSS never had problems with lifting from the nails theyd given me...so what im asking is......can it go both ways? Can it cause excessive adhesion (is there such a thing?) as well as terrible lifting? or does the fact these nss nails staying on have nothing to do with the drill being used?

Am I thinking too much this time of the morning...im in danger of learning something before 9am lol

Etching heavily and thinning are 2 different things but also so is the overlay we are talking about. MMA is a different product altogether and cannot be compared to modern lighter weight products with more flexibility. Concrete cannot be compared to carpet ... one will lift more easily than the other. Back to topic?

 

[Tracey Roberts]

Hi, I kno I'm still a student, but I'd like to put my two pennys worth in........
The 1st set if pictures, to me, it does look like product contamination that is causing the yellowing on the overlay, I had this when I first started to learn about L&P........ also I noticed that she has yellowing around the cuticle area, more so than on the rest of the nail bed that you can see, but the part of the nailbed that does'nt have yellowing was probably filed away anyway, but my concern would be the growth with yellowing???

The 2nd set of pics are lovely, but as some of the others as said, I noticed the ring lines, of where you used the file :hug: