Why do people think very short courses are OK?

[chaseyboi]

Very good thread and agree with most of the above comments

But......... just to play devils advocate and to look at this from another angle the reason why some people chose cheap/short courses is because thats what they can afford & as much as they would like to just simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on education. If the well known large company's are so keen on changing/improving on the quality of standards out there then why not make THIER education and teaching more accesable to people who are on limited means so they dont have to use a cheap short course. Someone on the min wage who lives alone could not possible afford £500ish for a foundation couse & then £50 per hour for 121 skill building on a regular basis. So what do they do???? They will choose a course that they can afford to do but beacuse the course is rubbish they go out into world without the proper training needed & end up doing more harm then good.


(P.S this is NOT MY PERSONAL OPPINION on education) I belive you get what you pay for & am lucky enough to be able to afford decent education but still think its a valid point :hug:

 

[kennedia]

Very good thread and agree with most of the above comments

But......... just to play devils advocate and to look at this from another angle the reason why some people chose cheap/short courses is because thats what they can afford & as much as they would like to just simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on education. If the well known large company's are so keen on changing/improving on the quality of standards out there then why not make THIER education and teaching more accesable to people who are on limited means so they dont have to use a cheap short course. Someone on the min wage who lives alone could not possible afford £500ish for a foundation couse & then £50 per hour for 121 skill building on a regular basis. So what do they do???? They will choose a course that they can afford to do but beacuse the course is rubbish they go out into world without the proper training needed & end up doing more harm then good.


(P.S this is NOT MY PERSONAL OPPINION on education) I belive you get what you pay for & am lucky enough to be able to afford decent education but still think its a valid point :hug:

I think this is a really fair point. Just one thing I'd like to pick up on though if I may. I don't really think we can assume that all short courses are rubbish.

 

[lilly]

Just out of interest what does everyone consider to be a short course, 3 days 5 days etc ?

 

[chaseyboi]

Just out of interest what does everyone consider to be a short course, 3 days 5 days etc ?

I consider a short course to be a few days but with no continued training afterwards i.e 2 days L&P & thats your lot not unless you want to rebook & repeat the same course

HTH

 

[chaseyboi]

I think this is a really fair point. Just one thing I'd like to pick up on though if I may. I don't really think we can assume that all short courses are rubbish.

Of course not no! but MOST short courses are cheap & not sutible for a newbie.

 

[1999judy]

Is this really a constructive or fair comment? Is it really even true or what the thread was initially about?

I take it that you disagree with my comment??
Please feel free to give me your reasons...

 

[kennedia]

I take it that you disagree with my comment??
Please feel free to give me your reasons...

Of course I disagree with your comments. That's why I replied. I just don't feel that you can realistically say 'you will feel momentarily superior ... until you realise everything you know is wrong'.

What exactly do you mean by this? You seem to be saying that everyone who attends a short course is given nothing but incorrect information. Surely you can't mean this? Also, do you really think that people who attend short courses feel 'superior'?

 

[Cathie!]

I did my foundation training at my local FE. 3 hours per week over 20 weeks. I was lucky enough to have a great tutor.

I went on and took many more product lead courses and eventualy began (for a while) to teach students the foundations of nail technology over a 4 day course.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it's enough, unless you have students who are willing and financially able to follow up on their foundation and you as the tutor are able to encourage and motivate the student to follow up and improve on this foundation.

Not all students will be bothered about this, no matter how much of a mentor or giver of motivation you are. You can point them in the right direction and give support but at the end of the day it's their decision on how they will take their career forward.

 

[chaseyboi]

I did my foundation training at my local FE. 3 hours per week over 20 weeks. I was lucky enough to have a great tutor.

I went on and took many more product lead courses and eventualy began (for a while) to teach students the foundations of nail technology over a 4 day course.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it's enough, unless you have students who are willing and financially able to follow up on their foundation and you as the tutor are able to encourage and motivate the student to follow up and improve on this foundation.

Not all students will be bothered about this, no matter how much of a mentor or giver of motivation you are. You can point them in the right direction and give support but at the end of the day it's their decision on how they will take their career forward.

Too true Cathie.

Wouldnt it be great if students could pay a set monthly fee to their educators & attend training on a more regular basis i.e one day a week. I would jump at the chance for that. i think education should be regular not a few days & then return a few months later. I wish lol

 

[Eni]

Here is my take, my .10 (inflation you know) for what its worth (possibly rambling):

When I did my course, I had to do 900 hours of coursework, 100 sets of nails, 50 sets of infills before I could even think about getting my certificate, licence. This was in the US - NYS to be exact. State guidelines/rules. In that course we learned L&P, Mani, Pedi, H&S, Salon Safety, Anatomy, Standards and Ethics - the whole enchilada. And we had to KNOW IT, inside out and backwards.

Here, in NZ, I have heard plenty of stories about both beauty schools and company training and I have to say that the *lack* of regulation is a big issue. HERE, in NZ.

If you don't know what you are supposed to know then you may feel superior and confident and then it blows up in your face when something goes down - as Judy is saying. I agree its a big issue. GINORMOUS issue.

That is *also* a major consideration with short courses, it *may* well happen because there is no way in Hades that a newbie can KNOW all they need to know in 3-5 days. I think that a lot of newbies who do the 3-5 day courses are not TOLD that its a process, a career long process to continue to learn, practice, perfect their skill. They are not told that the course is an introduction (because that is what it is) to the nail industry. NOW add into the equation this:

A lot of the trainers on these 3-5 day courses (not all, but a lot of them, more than I am comfortable with to be honest) do not seem all too interested in helping build basic skills. A lot of them are independent contractors who make their money by selling the courses and product. There is no money to be made helping newbies build basic skills, but there is money to be made upselling. ( I think Bob got this point in his post)

Remember, this is my impression of what is happening here in NZ.

The problem, besides leaving the newbies dead in the water is that the good training course and the good trainers have a helluva time because by the time they get these previously trained newbies to convert - its harder to break old habits than to start fresh.

Then the newbies are all into the artsy fartsy stuff cos that is what is being Sold to them and then the basic skills are never really perfected so that they don't have a solid (in my opinion) foundation to go forward.

What is the solution? Just as we have to educate the clients regarding NSS, etc. we also have to educate the new techs and impress upon them the IMPORTANCE of basics and that the 3-5 day courses are INTRODUCTIONS to the industry and it takes at least 100 sets, 50 infills and approximately 900 hours before they can consider themselves masters of the BASIC skills.

The whole instant gratification thing does not apply when one is learning a craft and building skills, regardless of what the hard sell is saying.

That is All. (sorry so long, rambling, etc)

Nancy

 

[Eni]

V,

We have the same problem here in NZ sadly. What I would like to see is techs helping each other out, which of course it a Utopian view as the competition is fierce. I don't understand (der on me) why techs don't network more say where you are or where I am, and help each other out.

I'm trying that here with the NZ nail tech board (sort of like SG but NZ based so we can all get together online and chat and what not)

I love the idea of an online theory course. Hmmmmm

N.

 

[spn01]

IMO I believe the "quality" of your education is vital. A knowledgeable, well trained educator, who regularly updates her/himself is paramount, however this educator must also have the qualities of being able to deliver the knowledge.

Ok, now don't shoot me:green: I haven't got my running shoes on yet.

I don't think the length of any course is really the issue. However how the course is represented and sold is. The problems begins when a course is over promised in content and under delivers.
Unfortunately those who express an interest into the "wonderful world of nails", can often be mislead. This though is not limited to our industry, in fact many industries and would be most difficult to regulate.

Got my shoes on, can't see the bullet

 

[kennedia]

Got my shoes on, can't see the bullet

No bullet coming from me hun! xxx

 

[1999judy]

Of course I disagree with your comments. That's why I replied. I just don't feel that you can realistically say 'you will feel momentarily superior ... until you realise everything you know is wrong'.

Have you ever actually taken one of these short courses on how to be a nail tech in 2 days? I have. I also spent a lot more time and money investing in a career that I wanted to be taught PROPERLY in.
Why would you "of course" disagree?

What exactly do you mean by this? You seem to be saying that everyone who attends a short course is given nothing but incorrect information. Surely you can't mean this? Also, do you really think that people who attend short courses feel 'superior'?

Ermm actually yes I can and yes I do! Maybe not ALL courses like this but the majority teach very little about the important things you need to work in the industry...H&S....product chemistry....just to mention 2 things.
What I mean is that they may for a short time have false confidence in themselves. And think they've saved mega bucks by superior feelings...but in fact that isn't the case at all.
Pride usually comes before a fall.

 

[keeleydee]

Oooooh! I'm on a roll now (sorry guys!)

As has been said here already: it isn't just the nail industry! It is all over. I just concentrate on nails but am aware of the same problems in hair and beauty.

Yes there are targets in colleges (just like all education and truly serious situations that affect the NHS for example)

Your training is only as good as your trainer. I was very fortunate with some fabulous teachers and my own enquiring mind and (I hope) a professional attitude.

Years ago I taught in FE (Gillian, maybe the one you are referring to) and I did my best but it was a struggle with funds and time allocated. I feel I should support FE due to my Habia involvement but I do understand the issues and am continuing to work on them as much as I can. But, like anything, being a specialist taught by specialists (real ones!) can only result in a better quality of professional.

Learn widely as a beginner then narrow it down to be a specialist is my way of thinking. NOT the other way around. e.g learn nails then suddenly be a facialist. Be a beauty therapist then specialise in nails. Or just concentrate on nails and be the best you can and keep learning.

Thanks for you support Geeks both here and in PM's

Someone disagree with me.......put the other point of view!

Hi Marian

I teach in FE and agree that it is so difficult due to funding and old fashioned views etc, but i am lucky enough to teach within a great team and they take on board my years of experience within the industry and i have managed to introduce new product suppliers and i bring more of the industry in to the college now and it has had a very good impact on staff and students, our nail tech courses are a minimum of twenty weeks with assessments, tests, H&S, client sessions, educational visits and trips and much more. I totally agree nothing can be learnt in 3/4 days xx

 

[geeg]

Hi Marian

I teach in FE and agree that it is so difficult due to funding and old fashioned views etc, but i am lucky enough to teach within a great team and they take on board my years of experience within the industry and i have managed to introduce new product suppliers and i bring more of the industry in to the college now and it has had a very good impact on staff and students, our nail tech courses are a minimum of twenty weeks with assessments, tests, H&S, client sessions, educational visits and trips and much more. I totally agree nothing can be learnt in 3/4 days xx

Actually plenty can be learned in a short time but only the tip of the iceberg .. so much is down to the student him/herself as to how motivated they are to continue with a 'life long learning' mentality and making the right choicesor are they so arrogant that they actually believe they can get anywhere at all with a course lasting a couple of days?

The answer is easy really ... look around and see who are the ones who are really being successful and making money in the nail business?? The proof is there for everyone ... it is the serious dedicated professionals who have invested well in the right basic steps and beyond .... I promise you it isn't anyone who has done a 2 day course and then gone no further. It is silly (just plain stupid actually) to think otherwise ....

with the ones who believe that a couple of days is all they need and they'll be off and running, the only people making any money and having the last laugh are those who are relying on that kind of ignorance/arrogance and taking the money for the courses.

 

[The Guild]

So, theoretically, if I wanted to set up a training course, I could no problem, but obviously if it's not accredited then I couldn't offer a certificate, so what's the point???

If theoretically, I wanted to set up a proper training school for something like a 6 week foundation and it was accredited, then this would be ok regardless of how long I had been in the industry?

How long would you say you had to be in your profession before you realistically could become a trainer? Do some of these courses get accredited even if the 'trainer' has no real experience? If so, how? Just because they have completed a 7303??

I want to go down this route purely because of the rubbish you see people fall for (through no fault of their own, they just don't know any better - I was lucky I found CND first ). I want to be educated to the highest standards and be able to be an ambassador for the best (in my opinion) nail co. in the UK, so I then am able to partake my knowledge and expertise to others.

I have only been trained for a year (and I am good at what I do in my opinion - I am also modest and intend on enrolling on my 3 Masters courses in the next few weeks as soon as SS come back to me with dates, then moving onto the different systems CND have to offer.

Thanks

Sarah. xx

Obviously I can only comment on the Guild's accreditation, and not any others.

When applying for accreditation, we require that you are qualified in all the subjects that you wish to teach, and that you have a teaching qualification. We also require you to submit the full course manuals for each course. We want to know that not only are you suitably qualified, but that you cover the relevant information within each course, including theory and practical.

We don't set criteria on how long someone should have working before becoming accredited as each indivdual is different, and are treated as such.

 

[redsadie]

Thanks for the clarification

I only asked really as a hypothetical, because it seems there is currently no legislation requiring people to be properly trained to train, I wondered how these other 'short courses' got around it. Legally though, there seems to be nothing saying that Joe Bloggs cannot set up a nail training course even if she doesn't know the first thing about it.

I want to be able to say that legally I am approved to train people in my chosen field and you will get a certificate at the end which you would be able to gain insurance with.

I've asked a friend of mine about the 7303 and she said she wouldn't have chosen it if she had known how poor the standards were, so I'm off to take another look at what's available.

Thanks again

 

[missym29]

I am doing beauty therapy nvq level2 and holistic therapy level 3, and most of the people that come are going for the schools own certificate which is babtac approved (1 and 2 day course), and I have noticed that all of them have so much more confidence than me, I am wondering whether this is because they only have to make a client consultation form and after care leaflet 2 case studies and away they go, where as I am studying the nvq thinking that there is so much more to it ? is it pyscological or what ? while they are all getting bookings for treatments, I find I am begging for models to work on ?? anybody been in a similar situation ?

 

[kennedia]

I only asked really as a hypothetical, because it seems there is currently no legislation requiring people to be properly trained to train, I wondered how these other 'short courses' got around it.

What do you mean by 'get around it'? Why is there anything to 'get around'?

The process of accreditation has been explained very clearly in the post above by The Guild. Are you suggesting that everyone who runs short courses is unqualified and/or unaccredited?