BBC- the great abortion divide

[lynn amber]

Bad bad lynn amber for not wanting the world to be over populated ,not saying people can't choose how many children they have ,just think we should maybe cut back before its to late and it has to be legally enforced ,probably not in our life time.

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[salj]

Im am pro choice ,the 24 week limit should stay where it is ,you can not account for peoples circumstance ,

but I do believe serial abortionist should be made to have a more permanent for of contraception like the implant to cut back on unwanted pregnancy.

You can not force someone to be pregnant if they don't want to be ,this will cause more problems.

And also iv said this before and I will say it again the world is over populated and we need to think of cutting back the amount of babys we are having ,so no point in have unwanted people .

I have never been pregnant and don't know if I can be ,but if I can the most I will have is 2 ,i don't think anyone should have more than 2 and no one take this personally because its not to do with being able to look after more children it to do with not killing the planet nothing else,no afence to anyone how has more just think we need to start thinking about this too,

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Not having a go, because your first and third paragraphs I agree with.

But saying you are pro choice in one breath and then saying "serial abortionists" should be made to go on another method of contraception in the next (and that people shouldn't have more than 2 children), is sort of against the point isn't it?

If someone is made to go on birth control, then their choice is being taken away. Yes it probably should be recommended but enforcing it... who makes that decision?

No one should be telling us what to do with our uteruses, is what I'm trying to say!

 

[lynn amber]

Im am pro choice ,the 24 week limit should stay where it is ,you can not account for peoples circumstance ,

but I do believe serial abortionist should be made to have a more permanent for of contraception like the implant to cut back on unwanted pregnancy.

You can not force someone to be pregnant if they don't want to be ,this will cause more problems.

And also iv said this before and I will say it again the world is over populated and we need to think of cutting back the amount of babys we are having ,so no point in have unwanted people .

I have never been pregnant and don't know if I can be ,but if I can the most I will have is 2 ,i don't think anyone should have more than 2 and no one take this personally because its not to do with being able to look after more children it to do with not killing the planet nothing else,no afence to anyone how has more just think we need to start thinking about this too,

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Not having a go, because your first and third paragraphs I agree with.

But saying you are pro choice in one breath and then saying "serial abortionists" should be made to go on another method of contraception in the next (and that people shouldn't have more than 2 children), is sort of against the point isn't it?

If someone is made to go on birth control, then their choice is being taken away. Yes it probably should be recommended but enforcing it... who makes that decision?

No one should be telling us what to do with our uteruses, is what I'm trying to say!

All im saying is abortion is not a form for contraception and should not be used as such ,we are lucky that we can get this service freely in the uk and we should not take it for granted if you get what I meen.

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[jazmine]

Bad bad lynn amber for not wanting the world to be over populated ,not saying people can't choose how many children they have ,just think we should maybe cut back before its to late and it has to be legally enforced ,probably not in our life time.

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I get what your saying about the planet.
My partner is very much if this view. When we found out I was expecting he was in shock and disbelief. He still is of this view and I respect that. He's happy to have one child-I have mixed feelings but I see his point. He's also a fantastic father and is thinking of the future when were gone and what he needs will be.

Ethically it makes more sense and for us in 10-15 years time were aiming to be 80% self sufficient (hes the Eco warrior not me!)

Also for us financially having one child will put us in a position to provide her with not only love but opportunities we could not do otherwise.

Although saying that if I were to fall pregnant we would be keeping it so were taking the right steps to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

['chelle]

I am very much pro choice. There is nothing more fierce or more passionate than a mothers love for her child which is why this debate always leads to very strong views from the pro life people. There are women all around the world struggling to conceive, but I dont see that as any justification to force a woman to give birth to a child she does not want to have, whatever the reason may be. I'm doing some work with Barnados at the moment and have seen what can happen to unwanted children, the abuse and neglect that some of them suffer is shocking. If we were to force women to have babies they didnt want the neglect and abuse statistics would go up, and no child should ever have to suffer that. I know some of you will say that the answer to this is to deal with the problem ie the abusive parent, not to abort the child, but the abuse cases that we know about are the tip of the iceberg, quite often families who abuse and neglect slip through the cracks because they dont register with health authorities or schools so the abuse doesnt get picked up on. Allowing a woman to abort a foetus with an under-developed nervous system is far preferable in my view.

We should never judge another woman or her reasons for wanting to abort; it is enough that that woman doesnt feel she can be a mother, and we should respect that. I do agree that I am uncomfortable with the 24 week abortion limit though I wouldnt see it reduced personally, I would prefer to see rules implemented so that abortions over say 16 weeks could only be done in very exceptional circumstances.

I had an abortion 8 years ago and I do not feel any sadness or regret about it. At the time I was a single mum living on the breadline, and another baby would have meant financial hardship for me, the new baby, and the child I already had. Incidentally, the child I already have was born to a rapist and I made the decision not to abort. It was the hardest thing I have ever done and the repercussions have been far reaching to say the least. Try explaining to a little girl why all her friends at school have a dad and she doesnt, and more to the point where her dad is now and why he is there, what did he do? My girl is 16 now and has counselling, so the ideal view of "a mothers love is enough" just isnt how it is in reality. When my daughter was 6 months old I fell into a very severe depression and my family had to care for my daughter, I rejected her and didnt want her and if it wasnt for my family I'm sure she would have been adopted, something I would have regretted for the rest of my life. I'm not saying women who are raped should have abortions, if they choose not to they should be supported, but all I'm saying is that its very easy for another person to judge if they havent been where you've been. It was after this first experience of deciding against abortion that I had the benefit of hindsight to be able to decide that an abortion was the better option the second time around.

One thing I dont like is the NHS support to an abortion. When I had mine I was told it would be several weeks before I could be seen so I paid privately, something I really couldnt afford at the time (I got a loan) but I couldnt go on with that pregnancy and feel the baby move then abort it. The NHS needs to do more to ensure that abortions are done quickly, as soon as the mother decides she wants one.

Sorry for the life story! :hug:

 

[CHarvey]

Bad bad lynn amber for not wanting the world to be over populated ,not saying people can't choose how many children they have ,just think we should maybe cut back before its to late and it has to be legally enforced ,probably not in our life time.

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Yes, cos it really worked in china. What about all these abandoned baby girls? All because people were forced not to have more then one child

 

[KirstieLou]

Yes, cos it really worked in china. What about all these abandoned baby girls? All because people were forced not to have more then one child

Exactly!

 

[xxAmyxx]

I think it's up to the individual as they will have to live with it. However I think that they should have to undergo counseling first as I think it's a big decision.

Also I think not allowing abortions ends in SOME people getting pregnant at 15 and sitting on benefits for the rest of there life, also maybe higher rates of child abuse? children stuck in care?

In Northern Ireland abortion is illegal unless having the baby will affect the mother's mental of physical well being x

 

[beautybyK]

Without saying too much as I don't want to get into an argument as I have very strong opinions on this subject all I can say is anybody who is anti abortion has clearly never been in that position. It's the most heart breaking and soul destroying experience I have ever been through and it sickens me when people try to make you feel bad for putting your hands up and saying Iam not ready to be a mum.

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[ProperPrincess]

Without saying too much as I don't want to get into an argument as I have very strong opinions on this subject all I can say is anybody who is anti abortion has clearly never been in that position. It's the most heart breaking and soul destroying experience I have ever been through and it sickens me when people try to make you feel bad for putting your hands up and saying Iam not ready to be a mum.

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I've had 6 pregnancies...



Ectopic pregnancy 2003. I didn't abort on medical advice. I miscarried 8 weeks in. My first pregnancy. I would not do anything different now.

 

[Tomme]

I am very much pro choice. There is nothing more fierce or more passionate than a mothers love for her child which is why this debate always leads to very strong views from the pro life people. There are women all around the world struggling to conceive, but I dont see that as any justification to force a woman to give birth to a child she does not want to have, whatever the reason may be. I'm doing some work with Barnados at the moment and have seen what can happen to unwanted children, the abuse and neglect that some of them suffer is shocking. If we were to force women to have babies they didnt want the neglect and abuse statistics would go up, and no child should ever have to suffer that. I know some of you will say that the answer to this is to deal with the problem ie the abusive parent, not to abort the child, but the abuse cases that we know about are the tip of the iceberg, quite often families who abuse and neglect slip through the cracks because they dont register with health authorities or schools so the abuse doesnt get picked up on. Allowing a woman to abort a foetus with an under-developed nervous system is far preferable in my view.

We should never judge another woman or her reasons for wanting to abort; it is enough that that woman doesnt feel she can be a mother, and we should respect that. I do agree that I am uncomfortable with the 24 week abortion limit though I wouldnt see it reduced personally, I would prefer to see rules implemented so that abortions over say 16 weeks could only be done in very exceptional circumstances.

I had an abortion 8 years ago and I do not feel any sadness or regret about it. At the time I was a single mum living on the breadline, and another baby would have meant financial hardship for me, the new baby, and the child I already had. Incidentally, the child I already have was born to a rapist and I made the decision not to abort. It was the hardest thing I have ever done and the repercussions have been far reaching to say the least. Try explaining to a little girl why all her friends at school have a dad and she doesnt, and more to the point where her dad is now and why he is there, what did he do? My girl is 16 now and has counselling, so the ideal view of "a mothers love is enough" just isnt how it is in reality. When my daughter was 6 months old I fell into a very severe depression and my family had to care for my daughter, I rejected her and didnt want her and if it wasnt for my family I'm sure she would have been adopted, something I would have regretted for the rest of my life. I'm not saying women who are raped should have abortions, if they choose not to they should be supported, but all I'm saying is that its very easy for another person to judge if they havent been where you've been. It was after this first experience of deciding against abortion that I had the benefit of hindsight to be able to decide that an abortion was the better option the second time around.

One thing I dont like is the NHS support to an abortion. When I had mine I was told it would be several weeks before I could be seen so I paid privately, something I really couldnt afford at the time (I got a loan) but I couldnt go on with that pregnancy and feel the baby move then abort it. The NHS needs to do more to ensure that abortions are done quickly, as soon as the mother decides she wants one.

Sorry for the life story! :hug:

My mum wasn't raped, but I have never let my dad, hasn't wanted anything to do with me and like you know, there is always that wondering in the back of your mind.
I'm not saying my mum just like you haven't done an amazing job and given more than enough love, but I can't help think, what do abandoned children think when I only have one half missing xoxo

 

[dandelionpoppy]

I haven't, yet, read all the posts, and will put down my thoughts before I do.

This thread highlights the pivotal part the mother of a child takes. Yes, I know that fathers are important - and indeed sometimes become the sole carer - but it is a mother who has the greatest responsibility.

What I know I believe is that abortion should NEVER be used as contraception, that the upper limit is unacceptable, and that we should always protect those weaker than us.

I used to have a secret very firm belief that abortion is always wrong. But I have never had an unwanted pregnancy, and should I judge others? I don't know! The only experience I have is when a close friend told me she had had an abortion; I love this friend, she was suffering, what would be gained by my making her feel worse? I did think though that she should have taken more care with contraception.

What if the mother has a life-threatening condition, which only cropped up during the pregnancy, and already has reliant children?
What if a 12 year old is raped?

The one over-riding thought I have is "How can staff perform abortions, day in, day out?" I think it must be down to how you view an unborn child.

Gosh, an excellent thread, where again we do not shy away from addressing difficult issues.

 

[Claire-x]

I don't think I could ever personally have an abortion. I was 19 when I fell pregnant with my first, I'd been with my partner only a few weeks and it was a great shock, but it was just something we had to get on with. We didn't even consider a termination and now my little angel is 8 and I wouldn't change her for the world. We're now expecting baby number 2 and have had the Down syndrome screening. When waiting on the results my now hubby shocked me by asking what we'd do if it was positive - termination had never crossed my mind! Thankfully we've shown a low percentage, but if not then it would have just been something to deal with at the time.

I have friends (a couple) who have had 5 terminations and now have 2 kids. Their 5 terminations and birth of daughter all happened within 2 years! How the Hell could they decide which pregnancy was the one to go ahead with. My personal view is they were old enough to know better! 5 abortions is wrong on so many levels. 1 unplanned pregnancy is a mistake you don't make again, 5 is taking the P out the NHS. But why were they even allowed!?!

I think if you are a repeat offender then you should be put on the Implanon or have the coil fitted, they are longer term contraception and could reduce terminations.

I agree the limit should be reduced much lower than it is now. I also agree that where rape and medical circumstances are concerned then its completely the parents decision and they shouldn't be judged.

I don't mean to come across as judgemental, as generally I'm not, but I do think that when people are having multiple abortions and telling you about then you are likely to form an opinion

 

[lynn amber]

Yes, cos it really worked in china. What about all these abandoned baby girls? All because people were forced not to have more then one child

Thats because in China men are seen as better than woman ,so thats to do with there culture as it would always have been preferable to have a boy there,it is a fact the world is over populated ,think about your childrens childrens children and what they are going to be left to deal with .

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[lynn amber]

I get what your saying about the planet.
My partner is very much if this view. When we found out I was expecting he was in shock and disbelief. He still is of this view and I respect that. He's happy to have one child-I have mixed feelings but I see his point. He's also a fantastic father and is thinking of the future when were gone and what he needs will be.

Ethically it makes more sense and for us in 10-15 years time were aiming to be 80% self sufficient (hes the Eco warrior not me!)

Also for us financially having one child will put us in a position to provide her with not only love but opportunities we could not do otherwise.

Although saying that if I were to fall pregnant we would be keeping it so were taking the right steps to make sure that doesn't happen.

Thank goodness someone understands what im actual saying :-D

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[lea2721]

my opinion on this is yes people should have a right to choose but people should take responsabilty for there actions if some one is going round having umproteczed sex then they know that this could result in a pregnancy! so to me this is careless and this is where it gets me annoyed because if you dont want a baby use contreception! not rely on an abortion for after is already been conceived!
i fell on pregnant with my 3rd got right to the hospital was sat in the room listining to them discusing what will happen which by the way is just horrible at which point i couldnt go through with it ,
but what surprised is how many girls and women that were sat in there like it was some sort of hanging out place for friends discussing how many times they had done it ,
all i could keep thinking is this is still a life what ever way you think about it it did not asked to be conceived it was my fault for not using contreception fir being irresponsabile so when i told them they transfered me to another ward which to give me some food etc a nurse came to me and said do you want to see your scan photo im not supposed to do this but you seem confident and i thinl youve made the best choice i said yes , i was only 14 weeks it had hands legs etc and from that moment yes i was scared but o new i had made the selfless choice and the right one !

but any way my point is abortions should be there for emergencys and as a last resort e.g cotreception failed or rape etc,
it is not a form of contreception and should not be there for people who cant be bothered to be responsebil

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[essentia]

Education not discrimination. Women need to be educated about contraception and the choices they make. As one gets older you realise life is not all black and white and I for one am less judgemental. That does not mean I agree with what some women do - however I do not walk in their shoes. Womens fertility choices have always been a pasionate subject - that is why the individual has to make an informed choice.

 

[lea2721]

i think if you know you are not ready then use contreception, i mean mabe it failed etc in wich case i can understand i can sympothise if some said look i followed all precautions but its failed but for some one to say look ive been having unprotected sex ive now decided i dont want to be a mum then why not protect your self in the first place !
i dont want offend any one and its not personal these are just my feelings on it,
i also belive 24 limit should be brought to 20 unless its extreme and exceptional circumstances


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[xxJackiexx]

As a human being personally I do not feel I have the right to say whether another human being can live or not . I don't judge others for terminations as every ones situation is different .

 

[lea2721]

and also when i was 15 i was pregnant but at my 20 week scan they suspected he had dowms syndrome or edwards sydrome said there was a 85% chance of him having either and you know they told me to have an abortion oh it will be better for you etc , i couldnt belive it four other doctors said the same to me i was 15 scared to death but i refused i said no why the hell would i want an abortion just because he may be diffrent or in worst case scenario not make it past 1 and even at my 28 week scan they re offered me an abortion at 15 i stuck to my guns and guess what when he was born he was a 100% healthy but either way id of loved him just as much , but this just goes to show how much abortion is readily availble and how some tes people can influence it upon you

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