Gel nails DID fall off!!

[VHunter]

I have a new client. She's an absolute doll.

I did a full consult. Thorough prep. Sculpted a lovely set of Gels.
2 days later, did her daughter's nails.
Her daughter's nails (now 1.5wks later are PERFECT with no issues..)
HERS however fell off
She was referred to me and has seen my work on friends... so she trusted me that it was a fluke and didn't blame me. After all, her own daughter's nails are just fine.

Anyhow, I inspected them yesterday... ZERO damage on the nail plate. You would never know they had any enhancements on them. Not a single tear anywhere to be found. Definately NOT picked off.
In fact, her nails still had some of the weird bumps on them from prior to the application of the original set (hard to explain... super tiny, only noticeable on VERY CLOSE inspection... ) so again, proof positive they weren't peeled off.

She isn't taking any medication. Her health is apparently 'sound'.
She has had enhancements before with no trouble.

She has wanted the coloured L&P and so I suggested that, BUT firmly explained that I'm still learning and that even my 'non-lifting' client/friend has occasional lift with the L&P as I'm suffering growing pains. She was enthusiastic about trying it, and was emphatic that if she had any problems, she wouldn't be annoyed. She's just around the corner and readily available for a quick fix if necessary (she truly is a sweetheart, you'd all love her to bits).

Anyhow... I decided to 'etch' her nail plate this time (as taught in my course), whereas I usually remove cuticle with Cuticle eliminator and lightly buff the plate to remove any remaining tissue and shine.
It better stay stuck this time, or I'll go BONKERS:!:

We chatted at length about possible causes and could come up with none.

HOWEVER important to note: She does hair extensions as a professional (and spray tanning).
IS IT POSSIBLE that products used in the removal or application of hair extensions could have caused this weird experience?

For those that don't know me and are reading this post: I'm not a newbie at gels, been at it 5yrs and this is NOT the norm. Lifting is NOT the norm. I've seen "picked off" nails before, that clients tried to claim had 'fallen off', but such is NOT the case here. They most definately FELL off.
My lamp/bulbs are fine. Nothing is different. Other clients are fine.

What the heck happened????

 

[marioned]

Seems very strange that they fell off, without her noticing lifting first, if it was some product that she was using that caused it. I would have thought it would have caused lifting, then that would progress to the nail falling off, and even then I would have thought there should be some damage as the last bonds holding them on were broken. It sounds as though they were never properly attached in the begnning.

Therefore the only things I can think of (which I now realise after re-reading your post is maybe what you meant!) is that perhaps something she is using was still on her nails
1. causing some kind of "film", when you did the enhancements, which caused the product not to bond to the natural nailplate in the first place,
or 2. and is something which inhibits the curing process when in contact with gel, causing the lower layers not to cure properly, allowing them to fall off.

What do you think?

 

[VHunter]

Yes, she did see some lift at first, but didn't call right away as she was busy and couldn't come over anyhow.
Also, by the time she was free, it was my 2days off and she didn't want to bother me.
So, I only heard from her Tuesday morning. They had apparently started liftting within 2 days of application.

I'm inclined to think that maybe you are right, something was ON the nails.
But odd that cuticle eliminator and repeated wipes with a Nail cleanser/dehydrator wouldn't remove whatever was there?
UNLESS it had been absorbed by the nailplate and was still there?

YES it does seem to me as if they were never stuck in the first place, hence why no damage.
What craziness.

 

[uniq12u]

The one thing I learned really quickly when doing gel nails is that you can't use a cuticle remover when applying them. No matter if you think you are removing it from their nails, that isn't the case. Not sure why other's didn't have the problem, but I know the one time I did that, the product didn't not stay on. Just do a dry push back and then if you want to do more removal use the cuticle remover after you have applied the product and it is cured.

 

[NoLimitNails]

Ofcourse you can use cuticle remover when doing gelnails, nothing to do with that.

The only thing I can think of (knowing your work and standards through here) is that you've got a person here who just cannot get along with gel. It's rare to meet those people, but sometimes one of the systems just doesn't do it for them IYKM.
Looking forward to hear about the l&p progress with this one, otherwise maybe try a resinbased system, as far as I can remember you have a lot of experience with this also, right?

Good luck hun!

 

[uniq12u]

I have talked to gel companies and they told me not to use a cuticle remover before applying the gel. As soon as I quit doing that I had no problems.

 

[VHunter]

The one thing I learned really quickly when doing gel nails is that you can't use a cuticle remover when applying them. .

That's not true. I've been doing UV Gel for nearly 5yrs (or is it more? lost track of time LOL). I've used 3 different brands. Now using EZ Flow and LOVING it... and I've NEVER EVER had this problem before. I have been using cuticle remover during all this time, with all 3 brands and if you do your prep PROPERLY you will NOT have a problem. As long as you make sure to remove the traces of it, and cleanse/dehydrate the nails properly... you're fine.

Ofcourse you can use cuticle remover when doing gelnails, nothing to do with that.

The only thing I can think of (knowing your work and standards through here) is that you've got a person here who just cannot get along with gel. It's rare to meet those people, but sometimes one of the systems just doesn't do it for them IYKM.
Looking forward to hear about the l&p progress with this one, otherwise maybe try a resinbased system, as far as I can remember you have a lot of experience with this also, right?

Good luck hun!

Thanks! I was wondering the same. If she was just one of those 'flukes'. Such as some people don't get along with some soaps... same with gel vs L&P?
I will cross my fingers on the L&P and hope she does well with it. I know SHE loves the results.. haven't had a call yet (crossing fingers :Scared.
Yup, if necessary, will resort to tip-n-dip. Yup, there's not much I can't do with that system. Pretty much tried it all. Have been using it for ummmm 18yrs now.
I haven't done wraps yet. Want to learn that one next, after I get a better mastery of 'basic' L&P applications (french's, fades...)
Thanks again for your confidence in me!!

I have talked to gel companies and they told me not to use a cuticle remover before applying the gel. As soon as I quit doing that I had no problems.

Well, I don't know to whom you were talking, but it's simply untrue.
As I said, if you do it properly, you will NOT have a problem.
There's too many of us using cuticle removing solutions AND EXPERIENCING SUCCESS with it, for that to be the case.
IF the solution is oil based.. perhaps, that might cause a problem. But I don't think that there are any that would be.

Do keep in mind that sales reps & distributors do NOT ALWAYS know all the answers as they are usually not experienced/qualified technicians.
I was once told that there was no such thing as "acid-free primer" and that primer did not contain acid by a local distributor.

I'm not a fan of a dry prep, I do NOT find it gets rid of all the cuticle. I tried a dry prep... and was unhappy with the results.
But thanks for your input all the same and your effort to help.
The effort is appreciated.

 

[nailspirit]

Maybe you can try the soak-off gel for her if she does not get along with buff-off and l&p? I have sometimes used a thin layer of soak off clear under buff off gel application as base gel (same product line though). I rarely have problems with gel lifting but when there is then that trick helps. :hug:

 

[uniq12u]

Well it is not untrue, because that is what they told me. Not going to argue the point anymore.

 

[geeg]

Well it is not untrue, because that is what they told me. Not going to argue the point anymore.

There is no argument :lol: .... it is bad practise to generalize on this issue no matter what 'they' said I'm afraid.

If dry prep works for you then fine keep on doing it ... but for many of the rest of us using the cuticle remover that goes with the system you are using works just great!

One can never make a blanket statement about an issue like this. Maybe the gel you were using needs a dry prep ... who knows? .. it is impossible to gneralize about these things .. that is why it is best to stick to systems, have education from that system supplier and stick to what you are taught. It is for this very reason, that should you want to change products, you also need to have the education that goes along with the product change .... the rules that apply for one system do not always work for another system. No need for anyone to argue about it.

 

[angelnailz]

Hi there

''HOWEVER important to note: She does hair extensions as a professional (and spray tanning).
IS IT POSSIBLE that products used in the removal or application of hair extensions could have caused this weird experience?''

I`m an L&P gal so know nothing about gels so dont know if you use a soak off gel etc - I know that removal of extensions involves ACETONE to melt the bonds, just thought it was worth pointing out....

Take care

xxxx

 

[NoLimitNails]

You are welcome hun, glad she hadn't called yet, hopes the l&p solved it. :hug:

 

[VHunter]

Hi there

''HOWEVER important to note: She does hair extensions as a professional (and spray tanning).
IS IT POSSIBLE that products used in the removal or application of hair extensions could have caused this weird experience?''

I`m an L&P gal so know nothing about gels so dont know if you use a soak off gel etc - I know that removal of extensions involves ACETONE to melt the bonds, just thought it was worth pointing out....

Take care

xxxx

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'll ask her about that. THANKS:!:
BTW, it's a buff-off. EZ Flow Gel it. But I would imagine if your hands are covered in acetone long enough.....

You are welcome hun, glad she hadn't called yet, hopes the l&p solved it. :hug:

Shall keep you posted.

 

[RedAdmiral]

With a certain brand of generic gel - I am one of thos people which the gel comes clean off no matter what way i do prep.
I have blamed rushing when doing my own nails and even my hormones as i was once told that people with hormonal imbalances acnnot wear gels (years ago!) Every time the gel comes clean off no marks, nothing sometimes the nails last longer than others - max a week.
The only gel that doesnt budge (that I have tried) is Brisa -it def has a covalent bond and I love it.

I do not have the same prob with l&p, the only time my l&p nails came off was on holiday one year and I found out my sunblock had Deet in.

Nothing is ever 100% so hopefully she will be fine with l&p. Fingers crossed she comes back with 10 nails and no lifting V :green:

 

[uniq12u]

Since there was no mention of particular gel being used only a blanket response can be made. And not all gel companies make a cuticle remover, so only using their's to remove the cuticle isn't always viable. But also making the blanket statement that you can use cuticle remover when applying gels is not true also.

 

[geeg]

Since there was no mention of particular gel being used only a blanket response can be made. And not all gel companies make a cuticle remover, so only using their's to remove the cuticle isn't always viable. But also making the blanket statement that you can use cuticle remover when applying gels is not true also.

Maybe you are wearing your argumentative pants today. :green:

Of course a blanket response is not necessary .. did I make a blanket response ... no .. I was reasonable and hopefully articulate and sensible.

I went to some trouble and effort to be quite clear that making any generalization for either thing is not possible.

If a gel company wanted you to use a cuticle remover then they would produce one! If they don't produce a cuticle remover I would deduce that they would teach a dry prep routine.

Those that do manufacture a cuticle remover obviously are quite confident that it will work perfectly with the gel system they also produce.

Goodness sakes peeps lets just let it drop now and be sensible instead of trying to score points and to insist on having the last word.

VHunter is an experienced gel user and does a wet prep with her system .. it works for her always so it is logical that she would not blame her prep routine for the problem she is experiencing. I thought she went to some trouble to give her credentials in the nail business and to explain that she is not a novice. Respect where it is due. It is also obvious by looking at her signature or profile exactly which product she uses even though she did not specifically mention it in the post.

 

[sian1979]

I had a similar problem with a few clients...i couldnt figure out where i was going wrong....some had lifting and losing nails all over the place. it was with ezflow L+P so a bit different situation...but still the same prep rountine. In the end I think it was to do with the primer not being dry. So the product not bonding with the nail.
This may help or may not....not sure but just thought i would mention anyway...i hope it does

 

[VHunter]

Thanks Sian, but nope, wasn't the primer.
I don't use primer because I'm clumsy and it makes me nervous. I use an acid-free bonder.

But thanks anyhow
:hug:

 

[uniq12u]

I was only trying to be helpful based on my experience in using gel. And one of the problems I had was in using a cuticle remover prior to application. Maybe the problem arised when I was told that the information I was giving was untrue, which it was not. It was based on my experience and what I was told by gel companies. I made no statements towards the original poster or questioned her abilities and if it was taken that way, I regret that it was taken that way.

 

[Natalieabdn]

If you use cuticle remover and dont remove it with water prior to the enhancements, they are likely to lift x
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