Constructive Advice Or Unkind Criticism?

[Mrs.Clooney]

Over the past few years, I have considered myself fortunate to be involved on a professional site containing a wealth of helpful and useful information shared by willing and knowledgable geeks. I have made errors and been pointed in the right direction. I have tried to hang on to and heed the advice and words of those who's reputation I respect and admire..... they are many on this site!

Their advice is free yet has been readily forthcoming. They don't get paid for sharing their expertise here and they don't have to share what they know. But they do it anyway and I have learned so much through these numerable geeks.

I have come to respect many geeks on this site even if we don't always agree. This brings me to the title of this thread. When advice is wisely, IMO given and suggestions are made, why do some peeps feel that pot shots are being taken at them.

If a geek posts a thread asking for help then why blatantly reject the valuable help been given especially if it is constructive and polite? I have seen this happen time and time again when you can quite clearly see that the advice has not just been given willy nilly, but carefully and wisely composed.

Personally, I find replies like (and these are just examples off the top of my head) " You are doing a great job", "Chin up chuck" non helpful when someone is asking for help. How does this help?

Then along comes a geek or two with some really constructive thoughts on the issue, only to be shot down in flames because the poster did not want to hear the words. What is the point?

I ask for help to be guided in the right direction, not to have my comfort zone padded out further so that I keep doing the wrong thing even if it makes me feel better. In the long run this is not going to help me is it?

It also really does help to adequately fill in ones profile. If geeks trying to help can see what training, experience etc one has, then more acurate guidance can be given in the first place!

 

[naturalnails]

Nicely worded thread there Tracey.

I think people fall into categories when asking for help. Some think that they are really good at what they do and when asking for help they are not actually wanting help but they want us to do a bit of ego stroking by saying no you dont need any help you are already doing things perfectly. But then you will get someone who is honest enough to say well you could improve here or there. This upsets the person because they think they have no flaws.

You will get genuine people who really do want to be helped and will appreicate the honest constructive help.

The skill is in knowing which is which and this is the main problem LOL.

 

[Katelisa]

I ask for help to be guided in the right direction, not to have my comfort zone padded out further so that I keep doing the wrong thing even if it makes me feel better. In the long run this is not going to help me is it?

I totally agree with the whole post, but i have quoted this bit in particular, because i feel that some people come on here, for that exact reason, to have ego's inflated and comfort zones padded out.

They just aren't good at what they do (its not a criminal offence to be bad at something is it, just move on to something you are good at) or are not liked or are just in the wrong job for their personality, and it is for this reason that they cannot retain the cilents (im not saying anyone in particular).

So why should we tell them that they are 'doing fine' and 'it happens to us all' when in reality, its not fine and it doesn't happen to us all. (remember ross and rachel in friends!! lol "it doesn't happen to everyone and it IS A BIG DEAL" )

 

[adelekeegan1]

Great thread, you've said what I think but I've never been able to word without losing my not inconsiderable temper.

I hate it when well respected, helpful, very experienced members are criticised for telling the truth, giving us the benefit of their experience etc.

Have some people wondered where we would all be without those that really know ? what would be the point of us all gathering here and finding no real answers, just a mish mash of opinions ? Frankly I am surprised some have bothered to keep coming back.

For someone like me who works from home alone, getting real helpi here has been the difference between giving up or carrying on, on more than one occasion.

 

[Katelisa]

Adele, was that 'wonder why' people bother coming back or a 'wish they wouldnt'... :green:

 

[Bagpuss]

I just try and give as honest and as accurate advise as i can...if someone chooses to take that as criticism then i just try and move onto the next person asking for help.

If people cant take honest advise then maybe they should think twice before posting, saying that honest advise doesn't have to be harsh....you can be honest and be considerate the same time.

 

[Kittensgotclaws]

I totally agree with this thread, like has already been said, some people just like their ego's stroked, i have found this site informative, welcoming and a fun and useful place to be. I have gained some knowlege from the more experienced tech's on here and hope that the ignorant few who throw good advise back into their faces dont ruin it for the rest of us. Keep geeking fellow geeks, xxx:hug:

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

So why should we tell them that they are 'doing fine' and 'it happens to us all' when in reality, its not fine and it doesn't happen to us all. (remember ross and rachel in friends!! lol "it doesn't happen to everyone and it IS A BIG DEAL" )

Exactly, I just don't see the point! It does not help anyone. Not the person requesting help and certainly not other struggling peeps reading the thread and thinking, "Well if I keep my chin up I will be ok". No they won't!

Keep your chin up by all means as positive thinking helps, but please take on board the excellent advice given. Don't see it as unkind or harsh criticism.

I hate it when well respected, helpful, very experienced members are criticised for telling the truth, giving us the benefit of their experience etc.

Have some people wondered where we would all be without those that really know ? what would be the point of us all gathering here and finding no real answers, just a mish mash of opinions ? Frankly I am surprised some have bothered to keep coming back.

For someone like me who works from home alone, getting real helpi here has been the difference between giving up or carrying on, on more than one occasion.

I do fear Adele that some experienced geeks just won't bother coming back. Some have left I've noticed.

Like you, I work from home so don't have the luxury of being surrounded by knowledgeable colleagues. I rely alot on Salon Geek. You are my colleagues, lol!

 

[stoney]

Hear Hear Tracey!!!

I'm known as a bit of a mouthy cow I think, but all I ever give is MY honest opinion and advice on anything I know is fact, or have gained knowledge of through personal experience.

I don't do it for a reaction and I'm not out to cause trouble.

Some people really do need to take a long hard look in the mirror (so to speak), that is often where the problem lies. (In my opinion of course!).

 

[Susie H]

Very good thread, only yesterday I read of a problem and one of the replies was from a geek who normally is very blunt, this geek had actually given a very careful reply:lol: I felt it was worth reping for and I don't do that often, any way this geek got shot down in flames and accused of all sorts and I thought, for goodness sake if you don't want the truth in the help given then go elsewhere:smack:

 

[min11]

Wonderful topic :hug: I tend to go a bit quiet in phases when I see various posts and the people who do post heap praise or sympathy when actually it might have benefited more from some constructive comments. I have to say though, in my eyes, who doesn't post in some topics says more to me. That could just be me seeing what isn't there :lol: Personally I sometimes see advice questions and pictures of nails where I also would have benefitted from actual advice for the opening poster, I bet many of us have issues in common after all. I end up moving onto the next topic wondering what the point is. Obvious issues but no one pointed them out. I am also to blame, still hiding behind a veil of 'not experienced enough to pass comment' when any comment is good, would it matter if some one posted to say I was wrong?

Maybe sometimes some Geeks forget that for the most part all replies are general and for the benefit of everyone reading not just the opening poster. I pm'd a respected Geek after she quoted me and replied with a very 'to the point' post. I took it really personally but as her reply pointed out, it wasn't aimed at me but everyone. I hadn't realised that although I was one of a couple to voice what I posted, many would have thought it but not posted.

 

[ShellDR]

Here, here
If people don't want to get an honest answer they shouldn't ask the question.
I'm fairly new to this business (still in training) and I value all info I can get to help me on my chosen path.
It bugs me when people moan on about how tough something is just to get an ego boost. If you can't take the heat....
Anything that's worth doing takes hard work and dedication. So many times I've seen those "it'll be alright" posts. You're not just gonna wake up one day and be able to do it, you have to practice.
The people on here give so much fab help and I don't like it when they get shot down for doing so.
To all you fab posters that help bods everyday thank you :hug:
(I'm going to get down off my soap box now )

 

[absolutly fab!]

some very good points made , but is it not what has been said but how it was said that have offendedor been offended

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

some very good points made , but is it not what has been said but how it was said that have offendedor been offended

Admittedly occasionally sharpish uncalled for responses have been known to have been given. But on the whole I think that geeks replies are mostly incredibly helpful, diplomatic and constructive.

If one is to ask for help and advice but only wants a pat on the back and hear gentle coos of encouragement then ask for a gentle pat and a coo so that other geeks know not to respond with sound and sensible advice.

A pat pat here and a '"You're doing just fine" there, is not going to help one's business improve or to help the poster evaluate where they might be going wrong.

 

[Gilly T]

Just on the outside looking in.. as usual. I am sure that there will be many times to come where I will need (and get) constructive criticism from geeks on here

I think sometimes messages can be misconstrued through unspoken communication. I have seen this many times before with students I have been assessing and it is part of some qualifications for students to uderstand the effects of non verbal communication for this very reason.

I have definitely seen a few occasions where individuals have gone off the deep end who were obviously expecting a glowing critique but I have also seen some comments that could, IMO, have been worded a little better but still have got the point across.

I hope I'm not in trouble for saying this.... I did think twice before posting but felt I would like to comment.... :Scared:

 

[motherbird]

Very good thread, only yesterday I read of a problem and one of the replies was from a geek who normally is very blunt, this geek had actually given a very careful reply:lol: I felt it was worth reping for and I don't do that often, any way this geek got shot down in flames and accused of all sorts and I thought, for goodness sake if you don't want the truth in the help given then go elsewhere:smack:

Couldnt have put it better myself.

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

Just on the outside looking in.. as usual. I am sure that there will be many times to come where I will need (and get) constructive criticism from geeks on here

I think sometimes messages can be misconstrued through unspoken communication. I have seen this many times before with students I have been assessing and it is part of some qualifications for students to uderstand the effects of non verbal communication for this very reason.

I have definitely seen a few occasions where individuals have gone off the deep end who were obviously expecting a glowing critique but I have also seen some comments that could, IMO, have been worded a little better but still have got the point across.

I hope I'm not in trouble for saying this.... I did think twice before posting but felt I would like to comment.... :Scared:

Constructive comment welcome Gilly. You obviously have experience with this in your job. I have just come out of college myself where I have been critiqued everyday. Sometimes good, sometimes not good. Hopefully I learned something before I did my exams.

 

[Coppertop]

I agree with you on this.
If you ask for help you need to be able to take it gracefully wether you like what is being said or not BUT i must say that i have on occasion seen posts that have been put in such a way that it comes across very bitchy and i can see why people take offence.
Thing is if this happened to me i would just ignore it and if it happened again then bring it up with the person via pm, no need to involve the whole site is there.

This is one of the best forums i've been on though as far as people managing to sort out their differences. Nothing worse than women, and men for that matter cat fighting on the boards :lol:

 

['chelle]

Brilliant thread, I couldnt agree more.

There have been nunmerous occasions when I've read advice from a highly qualified and experienced geek, the advice has been concise and well worded, and the replies have been, well, nasty. There's just no need, especially when someone has taken the time and trouble to help you out with a problem for free, rather than leave you to it and let you go pay for some tuition elsewhere.

Sometimes the truth hurts. We've all spent a great deal of time, money and emotions to build our businesses and get to where we are, and we dont like to hear it when someone says something other than we're doing a wonderful job, but you will never progress as a professional if you insist on all feedback and criticism being sugar coated. Sometimes when you ask a geek for advice, the geek will rip the band-aid off and expose the problem so you can deal with it!!

 

[Gilly T]

Constructive comment welcome Gilly. You obviously have experience with this in your job. I have just come out of college myself where I have been critiqued everyday. Sometimes good, sometimes not good. Hopefully I learned something before I did my exams.

Like a lot of other geeks on here, I'm sure you are a wealth of knowledge Mrs C xx