Need Skincare help from you Pro's!

[Beanie]

Hi all!

First post after spending the last hour or so browsing this wonderful site!

I am currently using Clinique 3 step (Mild Liquid Facial Soap/Clarifying Lotion 2/Dramatically Different Moisturizing Gel) as advised by Clinique Consultant.

Although I love the mild soap gel and the cleansing properties of the clarifying lotion, I still find myself having breakouts in the same places.

I drink plenty of water (although I do smoke, currently giving up!) and I cleanse my face twice daily with a weekly steam, scrub and mask I cannot seem to stop these awful spots!

My forehead is normal, nose, chin and cheeks are slightly oily and everywhere else seems to change between normal and slightly dry depending on time of year etc.

I seem to constantly get spots around my mouth and on my chin with the occasional one popping up on my cheeks and one every now and again between my eyebrows. I have started to get scars from the spots too!

Anyone recommend a good skincare system or anything that will help this? I am a little clueless with the best path to take!

I am starting college in Sept 09 for my Beauty therapy L2 Diploma and I would love to start my learning early!

Many Thanks! B.

 

[Martin Duffy]

With break-outs like these the first thing is to realise that it is not necessarily directly linked to skin hygiene & that overcleansing can easily aggrevate the problem, leading to irritation & dryness. The main issues are normally increased sebum production, increased levels of Proprionibacterium Acnes in the pilosebaceous duct, abnormal follicular keratinisation & plugging and release of inflammatory mediators. Thus a good treatment programme should concentrate on formulations that are anti-bacterial, anti-inflammatory & aid in the shedding of corneocytes but without drying the skin or impairing the acid mantle. Also, look for a formulation containing linoleic acid as studies suggest applied topically this helps to reduce commedone size (Safflower & sunflower seed are rich in this).

Dehydration is a major problem with acne as this aggrevates the blocking of the pilosebaceous duct - the enzymes that dissolve the 'mortar' (desmosomes) holding the cells together need free water (amongst other things) to work, so if you over cleanse or don't rehydrate the skin sufficiently then the cells won't naturally desquamate as well as they should, increasing the chance of the duct plugging (i.e. commedones). Overcleansing also reduces the efficiency of the acid mantle, which needs to be kept intact.

I would use an oil based cleanser - the wax-like sebum plugs cannot be dissolved in water-based formulations. Alcohol also dissolves them, hence its use in cheap skincare for acne, but it dries the skin so obviously is going to aggrevate the condition (especially as you say your skin tends to veer from normal to lipid dry). Work the cleansing oil in, massaging it into the skin (a cleansing brush is good for this), then wash off & tone. Use an acidic toner also to help maintain the pH of the skin (this helps fight against the bacteria).

I would avoid scrubs & abrasives as these often aggrevate the condition & increase sebum production, instead use an AHA preparation to help remove dead skin cells & aid release of keratin plugs or an enzyme based exfoliator.

Topical Vit A has been shown to reduce sebum production & also helps speed up the shedding of the dead skin cells, reducing the likelihood of plugging, although some find that the skin first gets worse before it gets better. In fact topical Vitamin A is one of the mainstays of treating regular break-outs. Contrary to the old fashioned wisdom, avoid UV as this thickens the horny layer, exacerbating the formation of duct plugging (which is why a lot of people suffer from spots after holidays abroad!).

On the subject of make-up, especially foundation, it's worth checking it doesn't contain a lot of FFA's (Free Fatty Acids) as these can aggrevate the problem, but only if your basic skin type is oily.

As to a skin care range, well being a Decleor clinic I would of course say use Decleor! I have had excellent results with acne using their Aroma Purete range. I would use their cleansing gel or oil & their alcohol free mattifying lotion. To exfoliate I'd use the phytopeel as this is gentler than a scrub. During the day using the Ylang Ylang facial oil (3 drops) under the Purete moisturiser will leave the skin moisturised but matte. Amongst other things the moisturiser contains microspheres that are coated with fatty chains, which are attarcted to the oil in the skin, but contain zinc, which applied topically has been shown to reduce oily sebum production, help in the healing of the skin after the spot & aid in the prevention of scarring). At night you could use the Ylang Ylang night balm if you have the money, else use the oil & moisturiser. For the scarring Decleor's Gel Prolagene works wonders (it supplies the skin with the ingredients needed to repair it).

 

[number1kitty]

Firstly dump your clinique in the bin! I have never ever seen such as awful skincare as this range. It bleaches towels and strips paints, so not good for skin.

Its deemed the rule to strip skin if its acneic but theres more factors than just under your skin.

Stripping skin through harsh chemicals and alcohols will only inflamne your skin as it tries to get the balance right instantly sending your sebaceous glands into overdrive to help moisturise your skin.

Drink plenty of water, and have your nutrion checked too, as often an imbalance of nutrients or hormones is responsible for outbreaks which is why women have outbreaks prior to periods.

My clients with acne or outbreaks start off with a course of microdermabrasion or peels to undo the damage and also take nutritional supplements such as Orovo, and also use gentle products on the skin, exfoliating twice to three times weekly to get rid of dead cells etc.

Use browned oxidised apple (mashed) as a face pack twice a week too, its not nice but works fantasticaly to kill off spots!

Good ranges are MD Formulations, Danne Montague King, Nimue, Karin Herzog etc. All are transdermal and help to heal, repair and replenish lost moisture.

Kate

 

[oldgaltherapist]

Hi

As Number1kitty says dump the clinique - horrible horrible stuff. sorry but its true.

If you want a quick easy range that you can get hold of until you get to a therapist who can advise you is Avene from Boots - the Cleansing gel (alcohol and soap free) is great for problem skin and they have a serum called Diacneal that you use at night only the problem areas which does as Martin explained as has Vit A content combined with glycolic acid.

Don't be alarmed its from Boots (I would not normally recommend) for all you out there thinking that wah whats she on but Avene is used by some clinics too.

Anyway advice given above can't be bettered.

HTH

 

[rock chic]

I say dump clinque to i know one person who said it actually stripped the polish on there stairs as someone had told her to try and see how bad is that!! I worked along sidea clinique consultant who was using the products and her skin was terrible, she changed to decelor and i mean it it was a dramactic change.
I also know a range called la roche posay its great for people with sensitive skin and problem skin its made by vichy and alot of doctors recommend it. hth:hug:

 

[Beanie]

WOW! So much to take in!

Thank-you for replying! I didn't realize Clinique was that bad but seems to make sense now as my skin is obviously telling me it doesn't like it!

I know when it comes to skincare its not good to scrimp but the things mentioned sound quite expensive, is there a mid-range skincare brand which would suit my needs?

I have tried moisturizers with Zinc before and they seemed to work for a while but after a few months, the spots started again so i'm unsure.

The browned apple masks sound interesting, can I make them myself? If so, How!?

With regard to scrubs, I use one which is quite grainy and it contains glycerin and menthol. It makes my skin feel very clean and buffs away dead skin cells but Im wondering if it might be too harsh. Also, the moisturizer I use still seems to leave my dry patches quite dry so I need something which works on each part of my mixed up face!

Some exact product recommendations would be very much appreciated!

Thanks for the in-depth explanations, its really helped me understand better!

Im so excited I have all of this to learn! I can't wait! ... A very happy... B.

 

[oldgaltherapist]

Avene's gel is about 8 quid and is priced around 10 - 30 pounds. so not too expensive and plus can fit in with other product ranges that you may prefer.

x

 

[Beanie]

Thanks guys! Thats fab.

I have had a quick look at Decleor products and all seem really good. Until I can afford to get exactly what I need I will give the Boots stuff a go.

You will all be pleased to hear I have binned my Clinique! Didn't realize how bad it was, its good to know! I have a friend who uses the three step and their pore minimizing stuff too. She has quite oily skin all over and it doesn't seem to do her any favors!

Although I use Clinique foundation too, Im not keen on sticking with it now I have heard what its really like, can any of you recommend a foundation which gives a 'dewy' natural look but will also cover the scars I have from spots? Need something with a bit of staying power!

I probably wear make-up about twice a week, no more than that so I don't mind spending a bit. I have looked at MAC but wouldn't know where to start with types and shades! Help!

Thanks again! B.

 

[Bombalurina]

The advice you've been given here is amazing, so I'm not going to add my 2pence-worth (It'll all be the same anyway!), but makeup wise, something in the way of a mineral makeup will allow your skin to heal underneath.

Try to get something from ID Bare Minerals, or a similar professional company...I saw an advert on tv the other day for a certain range of high-street/cheapie makeup (Won't say which!), which boasts to be 95% minerals....so what's the other 5% made of???!!! Don't fall for the claims of cheaper brands without reading the packaging first - a reputable brand available from a salon will do wonders for your skin, and should be able to be used even on a really bad skin day.

Good luck!! enjoy learning all about this fascinating industry!

 

[number1kitty]

WOW! So much to take in!

Thank-you for replying! I didn't realize Clinique was that bad but seems to make sense now as my skin is obviously telling me it doesn't like it!

I know when it comes to skincare its not good to scrimp but the things mentioned sound quite expensive, is there a mid-range skincare brand which would suit my needs?

I have tried moisturizers with Zinc before and they seemed to work for a while but after a few months, the spots started again so i'm unsure.

The browned apple masks sound interesting, can I make them myself? If so, How!?

With regard to scrubs, I use one which is quite grainy and it contains glycerin and menthol. It makes my skin feel very clean and buffs away dead skin cells but Im wondering if it might be too harsh. Also, the moisturizer I use still seems to leave my dry patches quite dry so I need something which works on each part of my mixed up face!

Some exact product recommendations would be very much appreciated!

Thanks for the in-depth explanations, its really helped me understand better!

Im so excited I have all of this to learn! I can't wait! ... A very happy... B.

As Oldgaltherapist said about avenue from boots, bharti vyas is great too from tescos. You dont have to spend a fortune on a skincare range, just choose your products carefully.

I was in holland and barretts today and I was shocked to see what they sold on their shelves. If you want a good skincare range pop into a few salons for a consultaton on their skincare ranges, but should you buy it expect to take up to 3 months before seeing a difference.

You may also experience sensitisation. Any ex clinique clients that I have changed onto my skincare reckon they had sensitive skin (which was caused by the clinique!) and it took a while for there skin to become climatised to new products!

If the zinc products worked have you tried incorporating this into your diet?

Apple mask is easy just cut one up (take peel off) and mush up and leave to oxidise, its a little trick I was told about from a plastic surgeon.

I advise my younger clients use a clearasil cream cleanser with an mild exfoliator, avoid foaming products as this can be too harsh. Toner basically removes the cleanser and closes your pores so remove cleanser well and splash your face with cold water, then invest in a decent moisturiser as this helps to stabilise your skin. A good moisturiser will do the same day and night (the skin has no clock!).

Twice a week do a mini facial on yourself, try to avoid anything though that will aggravate your skin. Avoid cheap off the shelf masks.

Kate x

 

[bombini]

You may also experience sensitisation. Any ex clinique clients that I have changed onto my skincare reckon they had sensitive skin (which was caused by the clinique!) and it took a while for there skin to become climatised to new products!

Kate x

Why is it that so many clinique users claim they have sensitive skin I wonder ?!

I have actually only had a few clients with genuinely sensitive skin that used clinique and the rest (also) clinique users had been brainwashed into thinking their skin was sensitive when it was anything but.

I think it is some sort of cult because I have had a few clients that will NOT change from clinique, my own aunty won't use anything else in all the years I have been doing beauty I have given her samples from every range under the sun and she just won't change from her beloved clinique !! I also have a client that has been coming for nearly two years for facials and she is a clinique addict, she just won't change !!

 

[number1kitty]

Why is it that so many clinique users claim they have sensitive skin I wonder ?!

I have actually only had a few clients with genuinely sensitive skin that used clinique and the rest (also) clinique users had been brainwashed into thinking their skin was sensitive when it was anything but.

I think it is some sort of cult because I have had a few clients that will NOT change from clinique, my own aunty won't use anything else in all the years I have been doing beauty I have given her samples from every range under the sun and she just won't change from her beloved clinique !! I also have a client that has been coming for nearly two years for facials and she is a clinique addict, she just won't change !!

Its sadley a very excellent PR campaign! Look at there stand when you go into a department stall. If you were not qualified and had a problem with your skin which skin care company would you pick??? Clinique (alone the name sounds clinical) stands are brighter and more sciencey than other stands, the staff where white so looks more pro and the system seems straight forward!

No one has sensitive skin until they start using clinique, then there skin is stripped of that much moisture and harmed through such strong chemicals that anything your client puts near there skin it will simply react, clients see this as a BAD reaction rather than the skin perhaps thinking WOW really moisture lol!

Its a hard slog but you can reeducate clients. I got them all in the end! I think the sheer look of horror on my face when they tell me what they use says it all lol!

Marketing has a lot to answer for, but only proves a massive point, if you get the marketing right the product dosnt need to be any good! A simply lesson for all of us business owners, We are pros in the industry, we sell only the best skincare ranges that we believe in yet we shy away from the marketing. We need to start shouting out from the rooftops that WE ARE THE BEST!

xxx

 

[tigi]

hi there

can i also my tuppence worth? I was wondering if you have been to your doctor? I had very very bad skin as a teen and due to the scarring on my face i was given a product called accutane. its was a tablet then. it helped the problem from within and also helped minimise scarring.

The advise you have been given is fantastic, i just wanted to say that no matter your age, docs take these things more seriously than they used to and if you are experiencing scarring then I would suggest you visit your doc for help to stop any more damage.

tigi

 

[Ada]

Hi All,

As a beauty consultant, all people need to do if they have problem skin is to first of all remember that young skin is more prone to acne and blemishes as a result, the products to use must suit that skin type. No need for someone in late teens to early teens to use Clinique or Declor unless they are specific young skin ranges.

Thats all I have to say.

 

[Martin Duffy]

Hi All,
As a beauty consultant, all people need to do if they have problem skin is to first of all remember that young skin is more prone to acne and blemishes as a result, the products to use must suit that skin type. No need for someone in late teens to early teens to use Clinique or Declor unless they are specific young skin ranges.

Thats all I have to say.

I'm not quite sure what your point is. Whilst young skin is more prone to break outs that doesn't preclude the use of suitable skin care, indeed modern estimations are that 80% of acne is treatable by skincare. Decleor, like many other professional skincare companies (and I'm excluding Clinique here), formulate products to treat the causes of the skin complaint, many of which I've outlined above.

As a skincare professional with many years experience treating people of all ages & skin types, I wouldn't have suggested the Decleor products if I thought them inappropriate. As it happens the Decleor Aroma Purete range is suitable for use on teenage skins, a lot more suitable than the rubbish many teenagers put on their skin as the result of ill-informed advice by beauty counter consultants & tv marketting campaigns.

 

[gillian w]

I think a big problem with skincare with people with spots is that they think they need to strip their skin with constant cleaning and very harsh products.
Clinique is not that bad apart from the clarifying lotion which is almost pure alcohol and stings as such.
The cleansing bars nice its ok and the moisturiser is light so i wouldnt bin them.
If you are getting scars then go to the doctor and you probably need mild antibiotics topical or internal you know if there really was something that we could put on something that will stop congestive hormonal spots in the area you are talking about, would someone like Victoria beckham have a problem or cameron diaz and these people go to see the best dermatologists in the world.
The best you can do is eat healthily , use gentle products,dont pick or squeeze,dont have periods dont get the menopause or go through puberty .
If they are that bad truly your gp is the way to go.

 

[tog]

Hi All,

As a beauty consultant, all people need to do if they have problem skin is to first of all remember that young skin is more prone to acne and blemishes as a result, the products to use must suit that skin type. No need for someone in late teens to early teens to use Clinique or Declor unless they are specific young skin ranges.

Thats all I have to say.

Fair enough, but that doesn't really help the young lady in question - and come to think of it, she didn't mention her age anyway so how do we know she has teenage skin?

 

[Martin Duffy]

A good moisturiser will do the same day and night (the skin has no clock!).

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there! The skin has been demonstrated in various studies to be affected by both circadian & ultradian rhythms, in particular it seems to affect TEWL (Trans-Epidermal Water Loss), sweating, blood flow & the effects are higher in the evening than the morning. Skin cell proliferation is greater at midnight compared to noon (by up to 30 fold); blood flow, amino acid content & TEWL are aproximately 25% higher at night than morning & afternoon (hence the need for a richer & more occlusive nighttime product), the skin is more acidic at night & the temperature higher - interestingly, those on oral contraceptives seem to demonstrate a greater TEWL & blood flow (by up to 10%) & a lower amino acid content (by up to 35%). Skin permeability also generally seems to increase at night compared with day.

Interestingly, studies have looked also at the efficiency of patches delivering medicinal formulations and the amount of the active formulation crossing the skin is also affected by the circadian rhythm.

As a result a good night cream/balm is formulated to work with these rhythms & meet its night-time needs. Also, as the skin isn't exposed to the sun at night, it enables the formulations to include ingredients that are broken down by UV rays or that aren't suitable for exposure to the sun (including certain essential oils).

This link gives a good overview:
Circadian cycles: the rhythms of life | Dermatology Nursing | Find Articles at BNET

 

[number1kitty]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there! The skin has been demonstrated in various studies to be affected by both circadian & ultradian rhythms, in particular it seems to affect TEWL (Trans-Epidermal Water Loss), sweating, blood flow & the effects are higher in the evening than the morning. Skin cell proliferation is greater at midnight compared to noon (by up to 30 fold); blood flow, amino acid content & TEWL are aproximately 25% higher at night than morning & afternoon (hence the need for a richer & more occlusive nighttime product), the skin is more acidic at night & the temperature higher - interestingly, those on oral contraceptives seem to demonstrate a greater TEWL & blood flow (by up to 10%) & a lower amino acid content (by up to 35%). Skin permeability also generally seems to increase at night compared with day.

Interestingly, studies have looked also at the efficiency of patches delivering medicinal formulations and the amount of the active formulation crossing the skin is also affected by the circadian rhythm.

As a result a good night cream/balm is formulated to work with these rhythms & meet its night-time needs. Also, as the skin isn't exposed to the sun at night, it enables the formulations to include ingredients that are broken down by UV rays or that aren't suitable for exposure to the sun (including certain essential oils).

This link gives a good overview:
Circadian cycles: the rhythms of life | Dermatology Nursing | Find Articles at BNET

Yes a good moisturiser can and will repair the skin in the same way at night as it does the day, drawing the essentials it needs from the moisturiser. The skin does not become dry at night or oily in the day, it just has more chance of healing. I think so many customers are ripped off by companies selling day serum, night serum and day and night creams just to get the customers money.

Lots of people are on a budget and whilst a pot of moisturiser from a salon will more than likely last 3 times longer than an off the shelf cream I still see no reason to sell unnessercery products to clients.

Unless that clients experiencing severe skin dehydration then I would never sell two moisturisers. And as Beanie stated she hasnt got a lot of money to spread around at the minute, so as advised a good moisturiser is worth its weight in gold! A good moisturiser will cover the needs of the skin from day to night, summer to winter and hormonal and stress. The only cream additional to a moisturiser I sell to clients is an SPF in the moisturiser I sell them does not contain this.

When you start getting technical with a client they switch off. All they want to know is the basics of the way it works, if and how it works and the cost.

Back in London I had a lot of very wealthy clients and even they were not interested in spending huge amounts on skincare. They wanted a quick and simple range that achieved results. Too many products is tedious and more than likely most get shoved in the back of a cupboard!

Kate

 

[Martin Duffy]

I agree a good moisturiser can be used day & night, I was only pointing out that the skin does indeed have a daily rhythm (there is a great & growing body of evidence that shows many functions of the skin are affected by circadian rhythms, beyond the nebulous idea of 'healing') & that dermatologists have concluded that there is a valid reason for formulating products specifically for evening application. Likewise, where budget is an issue I wouldn't insist a night cream/balm is essential, hence my comment in my first message that although the Decleor night balm would be ideal, the moisturiser would suffice for both am & pm.

I actually find night balms are one of my best selling products. When clients have used samples & seen the difference the right night product for their skin makes they are hooked. Hardly any of my clients would be without a specially formulated night product & to be honest it doesn't cost any more in the long run as your moisturiser is only going to last half as long if you are using it am & pm compared to using two products; it's only the initial outlay that is greater. I don't particularly feel using a night product is tedious or complicated - it's no different effort or timewise to putting a moisturiser on at night.

Agreed about the technical side switching some clients off, although some of mine actually want to know how/why it works - I never like to presume a client needs me to dumb down for them, but as we are on a board for professionals I didn't & don't feel the need to avoid the science behind skincare & conditions just in case it bores people.