Unsafe and Unsound and Utter Rubbish

[tammysnails]

I just don't see how you can disagree with Facts....opinions yeah...but Facts ??.....I decide what are facts and what are not by who ever is speaking of the facts...and in this case i have no need to question the facts given with regards to the damage that a 100 grit can do to natural nails. This to me is not a fact but an opinion.



As for being more or less professional...well to be honest...if you have to ask if you are proffesional then really you already know the answer.

I don't need to ask myself. I know that I am a professional. What I am getting at is everyone has different beliefs and methods of doing services, just because someone does not agree with the others method does not make mean that that other person is not a professional.

 

[Bagpuss]

I don't need to ask myself. I know that I am a professional. What I am getting at is everyone has different beliefs and methods of doing services, just because someone does not agree with the others method does not make mean that that other person is not a professional.

But when those opinions/believes are face to face with Facts....its a different story.

 

[The Geek]

I think diversity in skill and ability are to be applauded. However I think the main point is that etching the plate with a 100 grit abrasive is not a valid technique. Put aside the fact that product shouldn't have to be stuck to a shredded surface to adhere - the problem is that you are damaging the clients nails in a manner that is totally unnecessary at a cost to the industries image.

Far enough if you don't know any better. That is why sites like this exist - so we can inform one another. That is why continuing education programs exist - so you can grow. Etching the plate was a technique that existed pre nail forumlations (before products were really researched for the industry). Its time to nip it in the bud if it isnt needed for adhesion anymore (unless youre using MMA which I am sure you are not).

As a nail professional, you should be making every attempt to protect and nurture the natural nail. Not incorporate damage as a fundamental part of the service.

I don't criticise different techniques as long as it doesn't incorporate unnecessary health risks or damage to the nail. This clearly causes damage to the nail and therefore damage to our industry and hence the reason that I (and so many others) are passionate about the subject.

 

[tammysnails]

does that make a little more sense?
Sorry I still forgot to add: maybe things are done differently where you are? No-one is saying you are wrong to get the education that you did. But there's absolutely nothing wrong in changing your way of thinking and listening so advice.
See...you thought you had problems by deleting your first message:lol:
I must admit I have often had my mind changed on many things from many geeks...none of us are know it all. We are just trying to help each other.

I did not delete it. I was editing the font color to make it less confussing. For some reason it did not post with the black and purple like it was suspose to. Or should I say I was fixing what was refured to as my mammoth way of posting........rotflmao

 

[Bagpuss]

This to me is not a fact but an opinion.

How can that be so....??? are you really saying that you believe a 100 grit file on the natural nail does the same as 240...???

 

[ValencianNails]

I very rarely post on this site. The last time I posted on this site, I was ignored and not really happy about it. It is very difficult to post with you ladies because of this very post. Yes I am an etcher does that make me unprofessional, no. What you all do in the UK is one thing what we do here in the USA is another.
It's your choice as to whether you post here or not, what I find quite amusing is that you seem to have a lot of opinions for someone who isn't an active member of the community we have here!

Re the 100 grit - you etch the nail plate, therefore removing nail plate in order for your product to adhere, it isn't a UK thing, it's a FACT that using a 100 grit abrasive removes nail plate and is therefore an unhealthy technique to use.

On one hand I think your little nailhood here is cute. I like the togetherness....BUT you don't have to beat down others who freely think differently than the majority here with words to get your point across. Believe what you believe in but do it with respect. There is alot to be learned from other people. You won't learn a thing if you constantly run them away.

We don't have a 'nailhood' here, although it is pretty darn 'cute' that professionals from all sectors of the industry help and advise each other, I don't know of any other salon professionals forum that has what we have here... my opinion of course :wink2:

I am upset and offended that a modorator started this post and has made some of the comments that she has made. I have found, in my opinion, and please keep in mind these are my opinions, that the term professional has gone right out the window with this thread.
A moderator has just as much right to start a thread such as this one as any other member of this site.


I have a woman who`s natural thumb nail has turned completely black with a tinge of green due to improper prep by a nail bar
This would be caused by not disenfecting their tools not by improper prep of the nail. It's dirty implements.
Do you not agree that a bacterial infection can also be caused by the client breaking an enhancement and not getting it repaired, therefore leaving 'themselves' open to the bacterial infection and it having nothing at all to do with the technician who applied the enhancements in the first place?
Do you also not agree that if the natural nail isn't sanitised thoroughly that the chances of the client getting a bacterial infection are pretty high?
It isn't all about dirty implements.

What disturbs me, almost more, is the attitude that goes with some of these posts. I am more than happy to assist anyone who needs genuine help but am puzzled, to say the least, at the offensive, aggressive, attitude offered by some. Thank you.
This is why I have never posted here until today. I am a member of many boards that I post on daily. While I am sure there are a lot of great things to be learned on this board they are getting lost due to threads like this one. This is why I have never posted on this board. I became a member and since I have never heard anything nice about this board. The 2 times that I have stopped by just to read and possible post I have come across post that have been offensive like this one and just left. I wanted to touch on this on and bring some light to this board about how it is coming across to new members.
Aggressive posts are dealt with by the extremely efficient moderating team that we have here on the site. Everyone has the option of reporting a post to the mod team by clicking the red box that's on every post.
Considering you've only been here twice before I don't see how you can want to bring anything to light as to how the site appears to new members, the amount of members and regular posters (new and old) speaks for itself.

My replies are in red text... I've touched on a few points that have been made and to be perfectly honest I think that a lot of it sounds more like someone wanting to 'have a pop'!

 

[tammysnails]

How can that be so....??? are you really saying that you believe a 100 grit file on the natural nail does the same as 240...???

What I am saying is that if you use your tools properly you will not cause damage. You can if you don't do it right cause damage with the higher grits just as you can with the lower grits. Again it is not the tool but the fools that use the tools improperly.

 

[naturalnails]

What I am saying is that if you use your tools properly you will not cause damage. You can if you don't do it right cause damage with the higher grits just as you can with the lower grits. Again it is not the tool but the fools that use the tools improperly.

I may be wrong here but if say I was exfoliating my face and I used a gentle product with very fine grains and then used a product with very large grains, would the large grains not scratch my face terribly, no matter how gentle I might be.

If all we need to do is exfoliate the nail surface to remove shine then using a very rough file is going to scratch the surface rather than merely remove shine.

I suspect this one will run and run LOL.

 

[Bagpuss]

What I am saying is that if you use your tools properly you will not cause damage. You can if you don't do it right cause damage with the higher grits just as you can with the lower grits. Again it is not the tool but the fools that use the tools improperly.

I agree we need to respect our tools....also our clients nails and our reputations.

Go 5 times over you natural nail with 100 grit...then 5 times with a 240....the difference is massive. And the result is amazing...as the grit on the 100 is further spaced than a 240...so it doesn't even effectively remove the shine...it just scores the nail...to remove the shine and fill the spaces made by the grit you would have to go back and forth a few times...whereas the 240 being finer...removed the shine with no visible scratches and after 20 mins the shine came back...unlike his other poor nail....(I have just done this to Robs nail...:lol

 

[bexi]

good analogy fiona, even I get that one being a newish nail tech!

becki xxx

 

[tammysnails]

I suspect this one will run and run LOL.

Not with me. I have said what I have had to add. Point has been totally missed so it is not worth my time. I am as usual going to take the Professional road on this and be done. It is a topic that no one will ever win, it does not make anyone unprofessional. A professional is a lic. nail tech, not the ones that are not professional are sitting in the nss salons. It is not judged by the tools that you use. Have a nice day!

 

[Lellipop]

Not with me. I have said what I have had to add. Point has been totally missed so it is not worth my time. I am as usual going to take the Professional road on this and be done. It is a topic that no one will ever win, it does not make anyone unprofessional. A professional is a lic. nail tech, not the ones that are not professional are sitting in the nss salons. It is not judged by the tools that you use. Have a nice day!

I have just read everything that as been written by yourself and Ok you were trained to use a 100 grit to etch the nail that doesn't mean that it is correct We have lots of training companies here in the uk and some of the things they teach a well trained tech would never do.

All the others posters here are trying to get you to see that although you were told to use a 100 grit to etch THIS will cause some nail plate damage no matter how gentle it is used.

Please try to see that the FACTS are there to see and good products DONT need an harsh abrasives to make them adhere. I hope that this thread will help others who may be using techniques which have no place in the nail industry

 

[littlegrohl]

2 things...

I learnt one way first, then a better way second.. If i hadnt, i would have continued to make mistakes and never have opened my mind to new possibilities!
If one way is a better, healthier option.. then imho.. its a way i will go.
i dont know how or why anyone would want to argue over matters that are clearly open for discussion
I have a few clients who's main concern when coming to me, was the damage that they had done to their nails before hand.. the fact that i try to preserve the nn is a quality that sets me apart

secondly.. there a quite a few people in this forum who, regardless if you agree with them or not, deserve the respect they have earnt if only for the amount of time.. effort.. and frustration they have put into making this place what it is today.. that is not a nailhood.. its a bl%dy gift!

ok im adding a third..
cowboys are good.. gung ho! (giggle)

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

I have been following this thread for all its pages and thought hey lets see what others think of this.
Not just us UK Technicians or CND Technicians but others who are held as Industry Leaders and Eucators Globally.
Here is a link to what Paul Bryson, Ph.D. Co-Director of Research & Development, O. P. I. Products, Inc. has to say about it.

BeautyTech Celebrity Q&A Area
makes good reading....

another good one is from Marti Preuss
"Acrylic Nail Preparation"scroll down to the manicure advise prior to enhancement application.

The main take from this is why remove keratin? Our products love Keratin so why thin the nail plate? Our product technology has advanced so much over the years, that we don't need a mechanical bond for products to adhere to the nail plate, but a simple chemical bond. Removing all non living tissue and a gentle shine removal is enough.

JMHO and now back to my Voddy and Orange xxxx

 

[geeg]

It seems to me, sifting through all the posts that I missed tonight because I was out enjoying myself, that the poster is only really annoyed about 2 things ... using the word unprofessional, and that (I in particular have not worshipped at the TT alter). These 2 things have been given far more space than any other points.

Well .. I'm not going to cover every point because I can't be bothered, but one misquote the poster made is the one about using neat monomer and a tool to make smile lines. I never said I was bothered about the 'tool' (I'd rather see skill, but there is nothing bad about using a tool) MY POINT in case anyone else missed it, was the using of neat unreacted monomer. Now I think we all know that this is proved potentially hazardous ... even the poster?? Or is that another debate we have to go through? According to the poster, it may be potentially hazardous but it doesn't make the person doing it UNPROFESSIONAL. OK ... right. By the definition I know of the word professional ... it does!

I prefer the Oxford English Dictionary which of course explains the word professional both as an adjective and as a noun.

For those who are not sure - those school days may have been a long time ago!!

An adjective - is a word used to describe a person, place or thing and

a noun - is the person, place or thing.


• adjective 1 relating to or belonging to a profession. 2 engaged in an activity as a paid occupation rather than as an amateur. 3 worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent.



• noun 1 a professional person. 2 a person having impressive competence in a particular activity.


So my understanding is that a person employing incompetent methods during a particular activity (such as etching a natural nail plate with a 100 grit file and thereby causing damage to that nail plate) is not a professional or is (adjective .. behaving in an unprofessional manner). Just as I have already said.

Interestingly here is the meaning of the word ETCH as in etching the surface of something -

• verb 1 engrave. 2 corrode the surface of. 3 cut into the surface of. Food for thought.

Good night all !

 

[skymark]

What you all do in the UK is one thing what we do here in the USA is another.

Just speaking from personal experience having lived on both continents, i've never seen or heard of there being a difference in the way that the treatments are carried out between the two places. Obviously every technician has their own style, but the fundamentals are the same. Nails are nails, wherever you are.

Not trying to sound critical at all, it's just that this is one of those instances where geography isn't really an issue.

 

[Mieke]

I can,t even understand why there is a discussion over something that is a fact but moste of all commen sence. Just try out a 240 grit and see the difference...
Claiming that some product lines use different procedures is completely understandable but by that i think how the l&p is applied or in which ways the prep is performed etc... not using a 100 grit on the natural nail ...what about people with thin nails...

And then i can,t help to think after reading this that e-files get bad reviews for damage to the nail while using a 100 grit is just as bad.

And after reading some of the first posts i read that someone thought that one of the moste wize nailgeeks around here was to fast in judging if someone was unprofessional.
My thought about this...
If i would ask somebody a question and they let me know in a direct way that it is wrong, i couldn,t be more greatfull.
It,s like the teacher back in school that is strict but correct...those always had everyone listening and everything sticked.
I am just very very greatfull that they sacrefice there free time to help us out in getting better in what we do. We get advice that has been gained over many years of experience. To me that is just awsome...no other word for that :green:

 

[Vetty]

• adjective 1 relating to or belonging to a profession. 2 engaged in an activity as a paid occupation rather than as an amateur. 3 worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent.



• noun 1 a professional person. 2 a person having impressive competence in a particular activity.


So my understanding is that a person employing incompetent methods during a particular activity (such as etching a natural nail plate with a 100 grit file and thereby causing damage to that nail plate) is not a professional or is (adjective .. behaving in an unprofessional manner). Just as I have already said.

Interestingly here is the meaning of the word ETCH as in etching the surface of something -

• verb 1 engrave. 2 corrode the surface of. 3 cut into the surface of. Food for thought.

Good night all !

Dictionary definitions are always helpful because they take away the assumptions of what people think other people mean...... No-one can argue with dictionary definitions.

The definition of ETCH is certainly food for thought - why would we as Nail Techs want to corrode the our working surface which is a part of a living body??

 

[adelekeegan1]

Not with me. I have said what I have had to add. Point has been totally missed so it is not worth my time. I am as usual going to take the Professional road on this and be done. It is a topic that no one will ever win, it does not make anyone unprofessional. A professional is a lic. nail tech, not the ones that are not professional are sitting in the nss salons. It is not judged by the tools that you use. Have a nice day!

What do you mean the professional road ?

Why does anyone need to win ?

Qualifications do not necessarily make one behave in a professional manner, having an open mind and staying abreast of all current information available does.

 

[talented talons]

I love this thread Geeg and think this is a great way to let all the newbies know that it is best to listen to all ideas and advice given, but then make sure you get the right answer from a more experienced person like yourself.

I know things can be misconstrued on here when typed, as tone of voice is hard to show with words sometimes. Same with texting. I try and say things as neutral as possible to correct something i KNOW to be wrong, and try not to sound condescending or anything, but just try to help anyone who is lost in this grand sea of knowledge.

It is hard when starting out to get all the facts, remember them all and apply them when needed, but then that is why it takes years of experience and learning and constant training updates to get us where we want to go and be the best nail techs we can be.

I love this site and wish i had more time to come on here. This is like my friend and my bible, and will always be an asset to our nail and beauty industry. (sorry to babble on....:o)