Why are there so many 'messers' around?

[a little TLC]

Brilliant thread!

As a relative newbie, having now mastered my system, I was looking to introduce a new system and this has answered any questions I may of had. (And I had lots...lol)

I defiantly think this needed saying and Geeg says it how it is!

There can be no substitute for a professional service - if you want to be the best tech you can be then you cannot compromise on products or service offered.

x

 

[salpep]

I agree with Geeg.

I don't even use Shellac but I know excatly what I'd need to do it :;ie the flippin CND LAMP..I am so sick and tired of peole coming on here complaining about shellac and then say they are not using the right lamp argggggghhhhhhh lol

I had a client yesterday I said how about gelish on your toes..she's like "oh no that chips, I had that before from another salon" turns out they didn't use the FOUNDATION arghhhhhh

Why is it so hard to understand that you need to use the complete products/equipment that goes with each system. Now don't get me wrong if a system says you can use any old lamp/base coat/ etc etc then fine...but if you know the company has said it won't work without something then why waste your money on something else..I don't get it and surley it must waste a lot of your time and money keep trying to make something work that won't!

It's no good then coming on here moaning about a product thats not working/lifting/chipping if your not using the right stuff period!

I know some are new to nails, BUT learn about your products before you run out the door and buy all the wrong things..it's simple xx

 

[Mrs.Clooney]

Why the heck is there so much ignorance amongst people who call themselves nail technicians ... such a reluctance on their part to get themselves educated ... and so much stupid messing about with different products that are in fact made to work together as a system and that in fact work better and last longer when used as a system? Why do ignorant people think they know better than the experts and the manufacturers?

I have to say, it beats me as to why people take such a short term view of their business success that they can mess about like they do. And then to top it off, they pass on their stupid ideas to others on this and other forums as if anyone who does do things correctly and by the book, is being conned or is naieve; like they are the ones who are uninformed! I don't get it.

Geeg, I honestly think some people don't view being a nail technician as a real job at which one can be really skilled, educated and professional. I think for may people, it is viewed a something easy with which to make a quick buck. Sad but true and unfortunately this affects the reputation of the industry and those people who really do offer a great service with lasting results.

I appreciate your frustration.

I And then where appropriate do the nescessary training.

I'm curious about this comment 'where appropriate do the necessary training'. To me it just sounds like picking out a little training here or there where you think it is needed. Sorry if I have this wrong, but perhaps you could clarify this please?

 

[cro-mari]

Well, Geeg, I understand why you are feeling this way... God knows, only yesterday, I said, and I'm really sorry for the words I'm gonna use, "If another creep calls me today and asks whether I do massage with happy endings, I swear I'll pull out my shotgun (which I don't have, of course :green and pierce his butt, so he'll really feel the Earth moved".

Because I was really annoyed by repeated and repeated and repeated calls from such people.
No matter what I said, what I wrote on my web site, no matter whatever. They just do. And some don't. And 10 minutes later, my rant was over, and I knew, even if I really did pierce someones butt, there would still be another one with such idea. And more I concentrate on those, the more they will call. So when another one called, I simply laughed, said, "No, thank you for calling, bye".

When I asked my reiki teacher, why do people do/say/ask things that we feel as wrong, he just said, "People do things. End of story". And I said, "well, their story is often in my face". And he said again, "People do things. THEIR problem. Do it as you feel it's best. If you can help, then do. And you cannot help ones who doesn't want to be helped, so let them. Their problem.

The sad thing is, that there is always someone who will give our industry a bad name, and clients are often inocent collaterals. But then again, there are us who take our business and products seriously. Underline is on, we do exist. And are doing our best. In our salons, on places like salongeek.

People just do things. So I know that you are annoyed by repeated questions that pop on this forum. "Do I really need the Minx lamp?" "Do I really need that xy product/procedure that manufacturer recommended?" "Will the universe collapse if I mix brands?" Well, it won't. Because, as we all know, anything can be done with anything, but that anything won't work/last/look as it is supposed to. Sometimes I get such urge to yell, "Press that darn search button, for God's sake!!!!", or, "You think, my dear, that you can do anything with anything to your clients. OK. Then go and dye your hair with water colours and wait the joy of the result you'll get."

And some of them will learn the lesson. When they lose clients, when they get bad name, when that water colour on their heads gives them such great result. Again, their problem. Anyone in their right mind will look at the successfull people in our industry and understand what is that made them so successfull:
1. Constant learning
2. QUALITY product that they stick to, because messing with it would mess up the quality of their service, and
3. Work, work, work.

You helped and influenced so many people, Geeg, and so did others on this site. And I can understand if you, or anyone in expertise, sometimes feels like he's throwing pearls before pigs. But you know, even if some of those pink nosed fellows missed to pick up that FREE pearls of wisdom, there are much more of others that DID pick it. And used it well. Think of those, Geeg :hug:.

 

[VHunter]

I tried to rep you Gigi, but silly site told me to spread the love LOL
Spot On!

It's one thing to purchase 100 Fimos for 5$ from Ebay versus 1 Fimo for 5$ at local distributor to save a few pennies AND QUITE ANOTHER to skip the sanitizing/disinfecting and/or mess about with your L&P by switching things up (hence my question in another thread) AND/OR skipping steps such as proper prep to apply products to speed things up.

To be fair there is a lot of misleading information out there,........ I think if i hadn't read Doug Schoon Book and read all the post that go on here I would have believed her as she is a "professional" who has been in the industry for years , and I am a newbie but thank god i knew better ...

I'm up against this all the time. Twice in this week alone by two local distributors. What did they do?
1) When I called to inquire if EZ Flow had more 'matte' colours than I already had, I was told I could mix any polymer with any monomer. I didn't buy it. I was SURE that I had read differently on this site & in Doug's book. I mentioned to them that as per Doug, that's not the case. They said to me "it's just marketing".
2) 2nd Distributor said the same. This same distributor is also selling 4w UV Lamps to use with Shellac and a while ago asked how I was getting on with it because her other clients had issues (I had argued with her about the lamp, and she informed me that she knew better than I - because she's been in the business longer than I have )

Were it not for this website and it's members bringing Doug Schoon to my attention... I would STILL be spending money unwisely and be questioning why nothing works.

How many techs out there are being taught by 'Teachers' that have absolutely no business teaching? (in Quebec? MOST of them!) How many techs are relying upon unscrupulous Distributors for their information because they SHOULD be able to trust them?

I'll be the first to say that I "experiment" in terms of art HOWEVER... I don't mess about with my base/foundation of my enhancements. I use the "System" as it was INTENDED by the MANUFACTURER.
Whenever I want to know the truth about something, I come here. I don't rely on my distributors because I can't.

BUT we can't we blame only the unscrupulous 'Teachers' (I use that term lightly) and money-hungry Distributors. Some blame must be laid upon the shoulders of the techs themselves who A) might know better but choose differently B) who don't know better BUT don't make the efforts to inform themselves.

I found this site because I wanted to know MORE. I wasn't happy with the piddly amount of info I got from my original course. I KNEW that there HAD to be MORE out there to learn. Ding-dong...I arrived here. Why don't more techs want to know more? Why are they happy with the small amount they learned? Why haven't they thought about 'ongoing' education themselves?? Aren't they even remotely curious?
That's the part that confuses me the most.

I thank my lucky stars every day for this website. Without it, I'd be another one of the ding-a-lings that Gigi is ranting about.

 

[persianista]

As a different trade, not nails, I have to say I am completely with Geeg on this one.

I am extremely well trained in hair, and we do things by the book. We have areas of experimentation, but have enough knowledge not to try and mix 2 brands of colour.

Some of the posts on nail geek take my breath away at times. The sheer idiocy of people trying to mix systems or cut a few pence off costs is beyond me.

I bought shellac into my salon. It is a simple system, not difficult to remember the sequence, and we have great results.

When my ex beauty renters got hold of it, for reasons known only to themselves, they altered the way it was used. They had problems.

Maybe the education that nail techs have need to drum it in a bit more that companies develop their systems EXACTLY, and you are not cleverer than the chemists at the company.

As for the people on the hair forum...... Don't get me started!!!!

 

[Beautiful You]

Brilliant post, it annoys me that I hear of college Tutors giving out duff advice - it is like they have learnt their trade and can't be bothered with CPD. What I like about CND (and I am sure they are not exclusive on this, other top brands probably do the same) is their education ambassadors are tested and have exams regularly themselves, as a requirement. They are top master's of their game and because of that they ooze professionalism and as a student you can't help but follow the same high standards. Yes I am sure some go away and let hygiene for example slip but I am equally sure most realise the great important of H&S because their teaching was good quality from the start. It's all about education, and that is what this site I am sure stands for. But at the same time people need to remember forums have an influence and therefore posts should not be made lightly, especially if they are suggesting not following a manufacturer's guidelines.

I'm a newbie and very part time around a full time job and I would say no nails is not an easy quick buck, to get on the right path needs investment of money and most of all time. So IMO a super quick return is not the ultimate goal - do it right is! Then your return and years of success will follow. CPD is a must. Experiment with nail art not mixing products.

I think you need a copy and paste reply for the CND lamp lol, it must drive you all nuts :green:

 

[JesseDavidNailDesign]

I think this is just an undesirable side effect of this new category of nail services that's on the market. It has made having nail services and doing nails appeal to a much broader range of people.

Believe me, it's not just in the UK. There are so many people here in the US buying these products off Ebay and trying to make it work on their own. If you notice on beauty tech, no one seems to take 'sticking to one system' seriously (except Holly of course ) And it pretty much sums up the attitude in the US.

I've already had clients put off by the system, this new manicure, because of bad experiences. And we're just coming up on one year that it's been out there. I really hope this system doesn't end up with the same bad rep as enhancement nails.

 

[persianista]

I think this is just an undesirable side effect of this new category of nail services that's on the market. It has made having nail services and doing nails appeal to a much broader range of people.

Believe me, it's not just in the UK. There are so many people here in the US buying these products off Ebay and trying to make it work on their own. If you notice on beauty tech, no one seems to take 'sticking to one system' seriously (except Holly of course ) And it pretty much sums up the attitude in the US.

I've already had clients put off by the system, this new manicure, because of bad experiences. And we're just coming up on one year that it's been out there. I really hope this system doesn't end up with the same bad rep as enhancement nails.

There is a distinct risk that this will happen.
I have had clients say that shellac didnt work when they have had it done elsewhere. Funny how it works well when done in my salon though!!

 

[mum]

I know exactly the group that Geeg is 'lumping' together! Specifically, the experimentalists she refers to are those that have no in-depth knowledge and are the 'messers'. Those that have the background knowledge and know when to and when not to experiment can often discover new techniques and provide a variation that works. It's those that mess about with no knowledge to save a buck or two that are in the wrong.

Personally I have never just accepted a marketing story. I have to investigate to find the facts before I'm convinced. However, if a reputable manufacturer gives instructions on a product they have innovated and developed, I will accept that first then make it my business to find out a bit more. That way I get a more in-depth understanding of the product.

I remember sitting with Geeg at the launch of Shellac. Without even trying the system how it was meant to be used people were asking questions on if it could be used in this way and that way! What is wrong with following the instructions? Follow them, get used to the product, understand the science, see results then maybe experiment. The good people have done that and discovered additional ways to use the product e.g weekend nails, with DD, layering, designs etc. That is the smart use of products. Messing about to save a few pennies on every service by using the wrong lamp, mixing systems and all the other nonsense is the ignorant and unprofessional use of products.

I'm with you Geeg and despair of all the questions and 'ideas' that you are referring to. Ignorance

 

[BobSweden]

I agree with Geeg, but is it any surprise that some people are like this when the duration of nail tech classes is so short.

Another problem are the low training prices that they make becoming a nail tech accessible even to those who have no financial means to create a 'real' business. Little surprise that some people look to save cents rather than earning dollars by being better educated and higher skilled than their competitors.

Anyone who is thinking about buying cheap gel or acrylic products should first do the math. Simply work out the cost per gram of "el cheapo" and compare it to "el quality". Or contact each manufacturer and ask them what the cost of a service is with their material. What you will find is that the difference in these prices is very little when compared to the amount you earn on your service. Now, decide if the potential risk to your reputation is worth this small saving.

I just wonder what the reaction would be from these same people if their hairdresser or beautician used cheapo products?

 

[sarahpoppy24]

What also annoys me as much than the messers is people who have had the education and training, paid out for the products and STILL refuse to do it properly. For example, I had a lovely lady for minx toes last year, she actualy had me round to do her daughters prom nails and showed me her feet, saying she liked the pattern but was a bit worried about it peeling etc. Well I could see from her feet that no cuticle work what so ever was done, and the minx had been cut very strangley, so you could see a join in the middle of the toes. I didnt want to be horrible and slate her tech becuase Im not like that. But I said yeah I could remove and re do her minx. Well I didnt eve need to warm them to remove, they just came straight off, becuase this lady had never had a pediure, there was cuticle over the whole nail plate and the minx was stuck to cuticle not nail, so it just came away. I re did them and was delighted. Now can you imagine if she had been showing people her feet, and people got the idea that was what minx was like as a product? I was thinking come on, minx application is not rocket science, and any science behind it had been developed for us anyway, all we need to is follow the instructions and apply it. There is no way of outsmarting a product and thinking oooh if I do it this way it will be better, there is no better way than the correct way. If people have been misinformed thats a lot different than blatantly refusing to do something properly, if you did that in an employed job, you would just get sacked. x

 

[smartypantz]

I am with Geeg here. Why do some people think that know better than the companies that have invested millions in product development think they know better, or something that is even worse here, in Spain, the official distributor, thinking they know better! When I inquired here about Shellac, I was told I could use a cheaper generic uv lamp, as a nail tech had tried it and it worked, I suggested they contact CND and ask their opinion.
My concerns here are that it will have a bad reflection on the product. I have had people say that Shellac doesn't work, it chips after a day or two :irked:
Here we are also gripped by the recession, however I think we should be looking at other ways to market ourselves rather than cutting corners. For example I go to a boot sale with a friend on Sundays, and as a loss leader I have just started to offer file and polish. I ensure the clients first wash their hands (I take my own liquid soap and towels) then sanitise their hands and follow through with a thorough prep, most of these people tell me that they don't receive such a thorough service in the salon!!
I think that perhaps these people who do think they know better will sooner rather than later go under, as people will not return to them, however the unfortunate other side of the coin, is that there will always be more ignorant people ready to fill that space

 

[geeg]

I agree with Geeg.

I don't even use Shellac but I know excatly what I'd need to do it :;ie the flippin CND LAMP..I am so sick and tired of peole coming on here complaining about shellac and then say they are not using the right lamp argggggghhhhhhh lol

I had a client yesterday I said how about gelish on your toes..she's like "oh no that chips, I had that before from another salon" turns out they didn't use the FOUNDATION arghhhhhh

Why is it so hard to understand that you need to use the complete products/equipment that goes with each system. Now don't get me wrong if a system says you can use any old lamp/base coat/ etc etc then fine...but if you know the company has said it won't work without something then why waste your money on something else..I don't get it and surley it must waste a lot of your time and money keep trying to make something work that won't!

It's no good then coming on here moaning about a product thats not working/lifting/chipping if your not using the right stuff period!

I know some are new to nails, BUT learn about your products before you run out the door and buy all the wrong things..it's simple xx

I'm so glad you posted this salpep because I have to say that this thread was not written about Shellac or any specific product, and @ CroMarie (hello by the way long time no speak:hug and it wasn't really written because I'm tired of answering the same old questions, because I'm really not tired of it ... people have to learn and I don't mind repeating myself. I'm glad that I can give an expert answer and pleased that they are asking in truth because at least it shows they are trying to learn.

I wrote this thread because people are not listening to the answers to the questions and are not heeding good solid advice and 'messing around' right across the whole spectrum of brands and service is suffering in general, if what is said on this site is anything to go by. Every thread seems to be about a problem of some sort and some of the advice is just plain wrong and in some cases dangerous. This thread is not about Shellac or CND and I don't want it to become about Shellac or CND.

I think it is sad that after nearly 35 years in the business, someone like Doug Schoon for example, who has taught GENERAL product chemistry to us all and given sound and never wrong advice, who is respected and trusted world wide as the authority in his field, who has done things to help our industry that most of the readers will never even know about; that his advice should be ignored or discounted by sad, skeptical and cynical people who cannot seem to trust anyone because they think everyone is out to get them. Incredible!

He has taught us about systems and how and why they work best together, he has taught us about UV light and how it really works, the natural nail and how it really 'works' .. he has dedicated his life to this .. no one knows more in the field ... yet some still choose to grace us with their cynical uninformed views and with no knowledge behind what they say at all.

When someone gives advice consider the source and ask those who really know.

 

[Nailqueen85]

This may sound like a rant, but really it is a genuine question.

Have YOU noticed it?

Why the heck is there so much ignorance amongst people who call themselves nail technicians ... such a reluctance on their part to get themselves educated ... and so much stupid messing about with different products that are in fact made to work together as a system and that in fact work better and last longer when used as a system? Why do ignorant people think they know better than the experts and the manufacturers?

I have to say, it beats me as to why people take such a short term view of their business success that they can mess about like they do. And then to top it off, they pass on their stupid ideas to others on this and other forums as if anyone who does do things correctly and by the book, is being conned or is naieve; like they are the ones who are uninformed! I don't get it.

Today in the salon, a client came in who has been to the UK and been to 3 different salons whilst there, to get her nails serviced. Do you know what she said? She said that she hadn't had one treatment for her nails anywhere that lasted as long as the work she has done by us. She said she'd been to three technicians for nail services ... No hand sanitiser used, no cuticle work, wrong UV lamp used with the system (she knows full well what the lamp should look like) lol, salons untidy and unclean. Minx applied to her toes with a cheap looking hairdryer that didn't last a week without peeling at the edges!! What is it with these people? They are not technicians they are just plain messers and she went to 3 different ones!! All the same. Is it that difficult to find a good operator with standards and a professionally run business? What are these messers thinking about (if they think at all)?

We are always reading moans here on the site about clients complaining about services not lasting etc ... Well our services last and complaints are practically non-existent ... Could it be that the :idea: should go on and that maybe those suffering constantly with problems and client moans should get their act together and get educated , use the correct products for their system and stop messing about?

Time someone said it! The 'messers' will read and not reply or learn anything from it, but Your thoughts on the questions posed would be appreciated.

Well said gege!!! Yes i have noticed it the amount of people that call themselves nail tech's is unbelievable.. Why on earth you'd want to give a sloppy service using products and systems that are incorrect!!!!! Some of us have spent years building our reputations and use products we believe in and know they work!!! Thats why clients come back and recommend new clients to come as well!! X

 

[sugar&spice]

I use nsi for gel & acrylic I won't buy cheap I'm scared cheap products will harm the client! Must admit tho I use Cnd cuticle remover as this is better than nsi vanish and use solar ! I was given some shellac & gelish from a friend who's salon closed down I've used them once now my daughter has eyed them up and gets me doing her designs for her school party's now if that makes a bad tech then hit me with a stick! I had a girl txt me and asked how much acrylic nails where so I told her they were on offer at £20 &her reply was omg ur to much. She tried every way to get them cheaper even told me a girl down the rd charged £10! Which I replied my products are high quality and cost a lot which gives a finer result, your than welcome to have the acrylic nails for £10 and yes you could go to the Discount salons who are more expensive than me but I will say this miss the one thing I can guarantee is that I do a good job 2 service with a smile and very friendly 3 you get to keep your own nails priceless! I did have an encounter with an in qualified girl as I'm a beautician I do a variety of treatments but she's no longer has many clients left as they have all come to me and the story's I've been told shocking but these shoddy ppl will learn when someone tries to sue them

 

[sugar&spice]

What I can say about this site if you read the forum and went through the tutorials then you will go far but I can honestly say hand on heart comming on here has changed me for the better I dnt use the the techniques I was shown where I did my practical training I use techniques I've picked up off here & all guidance other techs haven me and I tell ya something I know more now than I ever have! So all the so called techs that buy off eBay they dnt know the best secret which wouldn't be a secret if the knew what they were doing they dnt have salon geek and that's a worldly knowledge

 

[bbk]

I think it's too easy to become qualified now. I worked my arse off to be a qualified therapist for 2/3 years and I know people who do it in a matter of weeks! Makes it easier for those people who don't care about our industry to train and hence poor practice, then we get told our systems are poor coz of their shoddy workmanship. I agree with the majority of posters things should be done properly there's no harm in asking what might be silly questions that's what this site is for, like Geeg said as long as the advice is followed.
Also would like to point out that the uk does have decent technicians & therapists

 

[JuicyLucy]

Why do some people think that know better than the companies that have invested millions in product development think they know better

I agree with everything Gigi is saying, but.... just occasionally messing about does help - using Gelbond instead of the Dashing Diva adhesive being a good example.

I am always amazed that people are prepared to take risks with their services. I would be so worried about what I was going to see at the next visit! I just don't want the stress - use everything as directed and taught to the letter.

 

[annie:)]

I've spent years and years learning my craft (I'm still learning) and have spent thousands and thousands over the years, so I'm sure you can understand how frustrating it can be when others want the easy way out... what bothers me is when they give a brilliant product a bad name in the meantime.

I've never 'quoted' before so doubt I've done it right but just wanted to add, I paid thousands with a very very reputable company to do a l&p foundation course and on my 5th day they changed the educator and in one day we learnt more than we had in all the previous 4 days put together as,so everybody on the course complained as we didnt feel the other educator had taught us half as much as the one we had for one day!so not always going with the big brands pays off and i had to then pay for a 2nd cheaper course to help me perfect the technique as i didnt have thousands to pay on another big course and tbh didnt feel id got what i paid for the first time!xx I happily invested my money into a 'large' company but was sadly disappointed x



Sent from my X10i