omg just had email from Dermalogica

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bexi

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Sandiiiiiiii

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Not really sure why everyone is so surprised. This was always going to happen with Dermalogica. They've been selling in pharmacy chains(similar to Boots) throughout the USA for a good while now, it was always going to happen in the UK too, wouldn't surprise me at all if they end up in more than Boots.
 

bombini

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If Dermalogica are opposed to this, could they not take action like Environ has?
I was thinking this to the other day.

Were Enviorn successful in their court case ?

It is very sad for the salons involved and I admit it would annoy me if clients started buying their homecare from Boots but I have a very good loyalty scheme so am hopeful I won't encounter any problems. If I do well I would continue to stock Dermalogica as I love the professional products and the results they give.
 

geeg

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It all comes down to money Angie, some people/companies will do anything to make money out of other people/companies. It makes me sick.

I know business is business and all that, but whatever happened to trading ethically and treating others as you wish to be treated?
I hate the expression 'Business is Business' .... it is a horrible saying and it implies that anything goes in the name of making money and that is just not right.

Whatever way you look at it, 'do as you would be done by I say' and lets see a bit of honesty and integrity back in business instead of using everyone and everything to further yourself. It always comes with a price to have that mentality.

Some scoff and call the likes of me dinosaurs but we are not extinct and there are lots of people with ethics who deplore some of the practices going on PARTICULARLY in the beauty business which includes nails. No, we are not extinct and there are thousands and thousands who still appreciate that fact.
 

Vetty

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I hate the expression 'Business is Business' .... it is a horrible saying and it implies that anything goes in the name of making money and that is just not right. Me too, it's a shame that seems to apply all too frequently

Whatever way you look at it, 'do as you would be done by I say' and lets see a bit of honesty and integrity back in business instead of using everyone and everything to further yourself. It always comes with a price to have that mentality.

Some scoff and call the likes of me dinosaurs but we are not extinct and there are lots of people with ethics who deplore some of the practices going on PARTICULARLY in the beauty business which includes nails. No, we are not extinct and there are thousands and thousands who still appreciate that fact.
Including me for one.

:hug:
 

bexi

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What happened with environ? Can I read about it somewhere?

I am seriously considering changing brands to be honest.

Becki xxx
 

The Guild

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bexi

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So Dermalogica can do this to boots, if they actually wanted to?

I don't understand why they don't go in buy some product and trace the barcodes?

To be honest I don't understand why Dermalogica are not updating us (the stockist) directly and we are having to rely on Salongeek!

b xxxx
 
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The Geek

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Not necessarily. If they were importing into the EU without authorisation, it is infringement. It really depends on the circumstances under which Boots is obtaining the diverted product.

I also do not believe that Dermalogica is knowingly selling into drug stores in the US. These matters are very complex and complicated. Any professional company that knowingly diverts into consumer outlets gains mass volume of sales in exchange for committing professional brand suicide. That action decreases the brand market share in the professional sector which in turn kills its demand in the consumer sector. No successful brand managers would do something as silly as that.

Furthermore, we can't be shocked at this. The bulk of people now go out of their way to find 'deals' or 'hard to get items' from unauthorised sources. Everything from Viagra and prescription drugs to pirate DVDs. We are victims of our own mass consumerism that is causing the grey market explode while syphoning off the resources companies had to invest in brand development (marketing, education, pr, etc...)
 

pure

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Just for everyone's information I have just recieved this email from Environ (IIAA). It just goes to show that it CAN be done!

Environ® Wins Internet Case for the Professional

Environ® has won its legal case in the High Court against a web-based organisation which has been online retailing its products without permission.

FirstForSkincare, which runs websites in the UK, USA, Australia and Europe advertising Environ® products for sale, has been ordered to pay costs of £25,000 and may no longer sell or import Environ products in the UK without being in contempt of court and at risk of severe penalties.

UK and Ireland distributor David Alpert commented, “Environ® is a professional only product. The court action underlines Environ®’s commitment to supporting their worldwide distributor and salon network and sales only by authorised, qualified professionals.”

Environ® have issued a statement to say that they “consider the infringement of our rights in an extremely serious light and we will not hesitate to take the appropriate action to protect our interests and those of our clients.”
 

bexi

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So this ''grey'' market is legal then?

I am so confused to be honest!

b xxx
 

The Geek

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Thats because this it is a complex matter.

People saying "Environ sued an internet seller so that means that Dermalogica can sue Boots" just don't get it either. If it were that simple, there would be no grey market. I think its great that Environ got a win, however their situation compared to Dermalogicas is like comparing iphones and oranges.
 

jo-from-moorspa

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Environ's case was about interllectual property and passing off.

The interesting thing is that the offending company has not updated their website to stop selling Environ. Has that website been updated to not look like Environ (passing off) as the internet archieve has been disabled. Or I wonder if it looked like that all along and there is going to be an appeal.
 

Tilly Ann

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This is an interesting one. I've been living out in the Middle East for just over a year now and I was shocked to see Dermalogica being sold in Boots in Dubai and Qatar!! I wonder where they are getting it all from then!
The market out here is completely different to that of the UK, you actually don't really see Dermalogica in salons, only in Boots.
The mind boggles!!!
 

persianista

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I really dont know what to think. Boots has a zillion hair and skin ranges and should be happy with that, and get its grubby snout out of salon ranges. I am starting to think that there is little value in salons stocking skin and hair ranges if we can simply be elbowed aside by big retailers and online companies.
 

geeg

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I really dont know what to think. Boots has a zillion hair and skin ranges and should be happy with that, and get its grubby snout out of salon ranges. I am starting to think that there is little value in salons stocking skin and hair ranges if we can simply be elbowed aside by big retailers and online companies.
I'm not sure I agree with your last sentence. I can understand you thinking this way, but have a little faith in yourself .. clients will always tend to buy from you, if you have done their treatments, at their appointment time rather than run off to the nearest Boots. Our business is so much about building a client therapist relationship and your clients will prefer to buy from you I'm sure.

I do agree with evrything else you say. :hug:

Are Boots undercutting salon prices or is everyone selling at Dermalogica recommended retail prices?
 

essentia

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Whilst I feel contempt for such a high profile and 'trusted' store as Boots to deal in unauthorised goods I have to say that I believe that Dermalogica could do more to stop this. For one they know what volumes are being ordered through various Distributors/account holders, they could also stop internet sales if they desired. I feel they have become a victim of their own success but maybe as the cash is rolling in they turn a blind eye. They could issue authorised outlets with special ID that could be checked by consumers to see if the product is authentic and make a big splash about it - so why do they not do it?
 

bexi

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Are Boots undercutting salon prices or is everyone selling at Dermalogica recommended retail prices?

They are undercutting example being:

250ml cleanser rrp £21.60 boots are selling it at £19.50

Becki xxx
 

bombini

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Whilst I feel contempt for such a high profile and 'trusted' store as Boots to deal in unauthorised goods I have to say that I believe that Dermalogica could do more to stop this. For one they know what volumes are being ordered through various Distributors/account holders, they could also stop internet sales if they desired. I feel they have become a victim of their own success but maybe as the cash is rolling in they turn a blind eye. They could issue authorised outlets with special ID that could be checked by consumers to see if the product is authentic and make a big splash about it - so why do they not do it?
I think you might be correct with that statement as I was told direct from a Dermalogica employee that the biggest online retailer of Dermalogica (based in Jersey :wink2:) is their top account holder and is a platinum salon. So they KNOW that this salon sells Dermalogica over the internet cheaper but choose not to stop it probably because of the £££££££'s they spend !!!

Yet in their contract it specifically states you are not allowed to sell the products online :eek: actually need to check that, maybe they've changed it since ive taken it on!
 

SusanEvian

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Many years ago I was shocked when they started doing, the ultra exclusive
St. Tropez it was a salon only product. Now look they stock the lot!

Su x
 

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