Constructive Advice Or Unkind Criticism?

[Zingara]

Like a lot of other geeks on here, I'm sure you are a wealth of knowledge Mrs C xx

She certainly is! And like many others, it's that willingness to share it that makes her, and the others that do just that, very special people.

Sadly, I also see more and more people here that only seem to take advice and not feel comfortable putting back in. OK, I appreciate that some people don't feel qualified on some subjects to advise others but everyone has their strengths, so it would be lovely to see a few more people recognise their own and put them to good use!

Everyone has something special to share!

 

[Lellipop]

Fab thread Tracey
Heres my two pence worth on the subject If someone asks a question and they get a really well worded and friendly reply then I do get annoyed when they then reply with something like "Oh I do all that" etc.
Look we all have to learn and we are learning all the time yes even techs who have been techs forever :lol:

My advice is take onboard what is written and try it before you slate it

Oh another really big bugbear with me is nail pictures I detest when someone posts a pic for critique and all they get is answers like Lovely, wonderful.......... Erm its critique not stroke an ego :lol:

So like I was saying until I got side tracked listen, absorb and understand that there are techs on here and industry icons who do know their stuff and we can all learn from one another, There is no them and us on here we are a big family xxxxxxxxx Geek Hug:hug:

 

[pure]

Good thread Tracey.

Oh another really big bugbear with me is nail pictures I detest when someone posts a pic for critique and all they get is answers like Lovely, wonderful.......... Erm its critique not stroke an ego :lol:

This is so true! And is also the reason I now rarely check out that section of the boards and why I never post in there (even though I would dearly love some professional critiques of my work!). What is the point when no-one is honest there.

I for one can hand on heart say that I wouldn't have my own business or being doing what I am doing without this site and the amazing and talented geeks that post here and their wonderful and generous advice. :hug:

 

[gillian w]

I often dont post what im thinking because i can get very opinionated.I have very strong feelings about training and also people starting businesses when they obviously have no real experience or anywhere near enough training.
These are now the posts i stay out of because i know my comments are not going to be what anyone wants to hear.Or take any notice of.

Sometimes there is no kind way of saying ,perhaps you are just not any good at the moment because you havent trained properly or your business is not working because you havent really gone about any of it the right way.Or you have bought rubbish equipment,have wasted your money so what do you expect ,or you are not a professional or really ever intending to be so you shouldn't be on here expecting answers.These are all things im sure we have all thought but obviously don't say.Or am i just a mean bitch

 

[Cathie!]

I would have given up nails years ago well, 4 years ago if I hadn't stumbled across this site quite by accident.

I asked many many questions and received fabulous advice, I took that advice to my nail station and worked with it. I knew I wasn't a great nail tech when I first joined the site, in fact I was rubbish lol and that's why I joined to make myself better. Hopefully I'm not that arrogant to say that I know it all because I don't and I learn something new every day from the site and from my clients and their nails.

I respected and still respect the advice I am given here and hope that somehow I give back. I'm not the best with the written word but I try!

As for massaging egos and the like, I know what everyone is saying, but hey, just don't get involved in the massaging if you don't like it.....

but remember, there will always be someone who is 1 par below you in the game and to say, someone who is 20+ par, the nails of someone who is 10+ par will look bloody amazing as a comparison and if you are on par, someone who is 10- par will be your inspiration...... if that makes sense.

We're all at many different levels in our game and we're all trying to do our best. :hug:

 

[Katelisa]

but remember, there will always be someone who is 1 par below you in the game and to say, someone who is 20+ par, the nails of someone who is 10+ par will look bloody amazing as a comparison and if you are on par, someone who is 10- par will be your inspiration...... if that makes sense.

hahaha I have no idea what your on about... stick to nails!! :green: xx

i think that just made my tiny brain EXPLODE!!!! BOOM!!

ps, bet your glad you didnt give up!! x

 

[Gilly T]

I would have given up nails years ago well, 4 years ago if I hadn't stumbled across this site quite by accident.

I asked many many questions and received fabulous advice, I took that advice to my nail station and worked with it. I knew I wasn't a great nail tech when I first joined the site, in fact I was rubbish lol and that's why I joined to make myself better. Hopefully I'm not that arrogant to say that I know it all because I don't and I learn something new every day from the site and from my clients and their nails.

I respected and still respect the advice I am given here and hope that somehow I give back. I'm not the best with the written word but I try!

As for massaging egos and the like, I know what everyone is saying, but hey, just don't get involved in the massaging if you don't like it.....

but remember, there will always be someone who is 1 par below you in the game and to say, someone who is 20+ par, the nails of someone who is 10+ par will look bloody amazing as a comparison and if you are on par, someone who is 10- par will be your inspiration...... if that makes sense.

We're all at many different levels in our game and we're all trying to do our best. :hug:

Crikey!!! do you mean that if someone says 'fab job' to someone it may be because they aspire to do nails like theirs as opposed to be to a higher standard than theirs?? Or am I more confused than I though.... lol

 

[Peter Pan]

Oh another really big bugbear with me is nail pictures I detest when someone posts a pic for critique and all they get is answers like Lovely, wonderful.......... Erm its critique not stroke an ego :lol:

fab thread flower

This too bugs the sh*t out of me too Lell, I would rather someone be honest with me, and tell me how it is (from pics) rather than say "Oh wow, they great" when I feel myself that they crap - maybe Ill just stop posting pics :lol:

seriousely tho - i totally agree with ya flower

 

[Cathie!]

Crikey!!! do you mean that if someone says 'fab job' to someone it may be because they aspire to do nails like theirs as opposed to be to a higher standard than theirs?? Or am I more confused than I though.... lol

When I was a newbie, yes I would have aspired to do some of the nails that I see people saying 'nice job' to.

hahaha I have no idea what your on about... stick to nails!! :green: xx

i think that just made my tiny brain EXPLODE!!!! BOOM!!

ps, bet your glad you didnt give up!! x

Obviously not a golfing gal!

 

[drew692]

Great post and threads.

Ive seen many a stink kick off on this site (even before I joined), and sometimes the whole thing has been taken the wrong way.

Unfortunately through written word there is no tone...someone maybe a bit touchy about the reponse they get ...and as I said it turns into a playground fight...but the person who has posted the question should also be big enough to respect another persons view and graciously at that, after all they asked for advice, and why post a question if you don't want an answer.

But this all that said, I do have to admit that sometimes I just wont post if there has previously been argy-bargy on a post, because A) I don't want to get caught up in it, B) its a pointless waste of energy and C) life is far too short to waste it bickering.

As for the people who say chin up etc...some people simply don't know what to say, but would like to express their support...it may not be the answer to the question posted but there is nothing wrong with a bit of support either.

 

[worthit]

Great post and threads.
As for the people who say chin up etc...some people simply don't know what to say, but would like to express their support...it may not be the answer to the question posted but there is nothing wrong with a bit of support either.

Here here to this a bit of support isn't asking for much and some people on this site do come over a bit harsh to us that are looking for support and not really a pat on the back I personally think it's a very hard industry to survive in and it sure is the toughest that do survive coz the easiest thing in the world would be to just give up and many probably do this site is fab for advice and the like but as stated it can come over sometimes the wrong way and then can subsequently be taken the wrong way as in email or anything else you can't see the persons face so you don't always know whether they are being nice or nasty and it is nice to hear supportive and kind words when your confidence is on the floor and you YES YOU do need someone to say it will be allright see what tomorrow brings I think that maybe advice sometimes can be given and it does sound like it's a pop at the person that posted but this site is for advice isn't it????? sometimes people are frightened or just plain nervous as to how to ask for help and then with themore experienced geeks on here it does feel like we are being shot down in flames it might not be meant to but I have read more than one thread on here that has come over a bit harsh IMO.

We are all learning life is about learning and to quote from a very famous poem don't look too good or talk too wise and this is true every day we learn something .

I think I better shut up now I hope I haven't offended anyone it's just that some of us need our hand holding more than others not to be told just to get on with it:cry: it can be very scary this industry is one on it's own and I don't mind admitting that I have worked some pretty crumby jobs and damn hard to with unsociable hours etc and never once wanted a pat on the back coz it was my choice but this is one of the hardest industries I think but still worth every ounce of effort you have in you to make it work rise to the challenge and just try your best

Takes a bow lol!!!!

Love to you all on here it's a great place

Kate xxxx

 

[Apex73]

Oh come on gals, chin up....it'll be okay?
Well, it might be okay if we take our critique/advice like a man & learn from it.

As has been said, there are so many experienced Geeks on here that really know their stuff...& share the info for free, I know I'm darn grateful for the knowledge.

No point askin the question if you refuse to hear the answer, really.

I know I for one would still be usin my old 'brand' of nonsense if it were'nt for this site & the Geeks on it.

Thanks For The Info, Knowledge & Support Geeks!!
:hug:​

 

[izzidoll]

Thanks for this thread Mrs C. and it's perfect timing.

I had thought about a thread along similar lines just the other day.
I was looking at Heather Davis's thread/List of Master Tech's and Educators in all the product lines and reading down the list amazed at the wealth of experience and talent we have here.

Then I realised actually how many of these geeks don't post much anymore!!!! Sadly it was quite a lot.
OK there will always be geeks who come and go, and of course some have busy Nail Salons to run, and can't always be on here!!

I know for a fact I haven't posted so much of late, and not just because I have been busy at work.
I laughed at first at how I seemed to always be getting the last word in threads! but then realised that the bad manners of people not acknowledging any advice given or letting everyone know if it had helped was beyond a joke.

There have been some good threads, and I participate when I can, but sometimes you feel if you are constructive then it is more likely now on the site that you will be misconstrued and accused of being harsh. I am sure it hasn't always been like that, or have I got my rose coloured specs on today?

Yes looking back over some recent threads I have winced at some blunt comments, but as someone else has advised, I chose not to comment and fan the flames!! I have always tried to word my posts carefully (and use spellcheck!) but sometimes we can all post before we engage our brain!!

We are all aware there is no tone in the written word, and the smilies on here do help, but sometimes things can go awry......then is the time for a PM surely, to sort it out.

The people I respect most on this site, funnily enough are the one's I have had disagreements with on threads, but we have debated and made our points, and either won each other over, or agreed to disagree. ( You will know who you are!)

THAT is what I think keeps me coming back to the site.

I hope we don't lose that in a sea of fab, super, great critiques, and geeks will now feel happier to give constructive advice, and heed it.

 

[Katelisa]

i think sometimes it's the attitude of " i am right, you are wrong" that causes rifts.

i also feel, Izzi, that sometimes when a long standing respected member of the site replies to a thread, their answer pretty much sums it all up, so no one else bothers to reply, as theres nothing left to say.

 

[Zingara]

so no one else bothers to reply, as theres nothing left to say.

Totally not wishing to cause one the arguments referred to above:hug:....and whilst I know exactly what you mean (sometimes some geeks just answer something so darn well, that it just doesn't feel like it can be improved on!)...but I do think there's always room for more and even if the above is the case, then another opinion is ALWAYS valuable.

I also think there's always room for feedback and if appropriate, thanks. In fact, heck....I actually think thats plain old manners and good practise!

Just imagine how frustrating it will be in a few years time when another generation of geeks come along, to find all this fantastic advice, however they have no idea what worked, what didn't and what was plain old nonsense....because less face, there is occasionally that too!

We all extole the virtues of the great books out there....Nailclass, The Complete Nail technician, Nail Structure and Product Chemistry and yet everydaywe have the compilation version of these, by the actual authors and our very industry icons and peers, at our fingertips....free of charge! (something I see a premium membership well worth the price of - if it keeps this info available for us all)

So, surely a 'great that worked a treat' or a 'Thanks for your help guys, didn't work in this instance because of XYZ but I found this worked instead', is not too much to ask for? How many of us would write a book without finishing the last chapter?

 

[izzidoll]

i think sometimes it's the attitude of " i am right, you are wrong" that causes rifts.

i also feel, Izzi, that sometimes when a long standing respected member of the site replies to a thread, their answer pretty much sums it all up, so no one else bothers to reply, as theres nothing left to say.

I take your point.......Ok, there are time when there is a right and a wrong scenario (mainly with the science side), and therefore one answer is all that is needed.

There are a lot of grey areas, though, in all our Industries, nails, skin, hair.

A technique or method used for one Nail system may not necessarily be the best way for another system, which does give plenty scope for people to post, and give more information that helps even more geeks.

Again as Mrs C has pointed out it would be very helpful if peoples profiles were filled out, as what is the point in giving someone detailed advice on one product systems way of doing things, when they are actually using another system.

For example telling someone not to wipe the liquid from their brush when working a bead on a nail.... GREAT and totally correct advice if you are using CND,...but for other systems not so good. Working with some systems and colours you want to get your mix perfect in the initial bead then wipe your bush so that you maintain the colour density when working with it.
Little things I know, but very important.

But if 10 people have already posted the 'don't wipe advise'...then it is quite daunting for someone, even me!, but especially a newbie to go on and contradict, even if she is more au fait with the system being used.

I hope I haven't digressed, but I do think this is part of what Mrs C was getting at too.

Feel free to disagree if not though :lol:

 

[Lynne Baker]

I make no bones about the fact that my skill and expertise in some aspects of beauty therapy are lacking, but that I have a great eye for grammar and spelling. Yet when I tried to help someone to phrase something correctly I was shot down in flames. I was very hurt by some of the comments and even more so by some of the PMs. Yesterday I attended a training course (facial massage) and was told in no uncertain terms that if our portfolios contained spelling and grammatical errors - especially on printed material which our clients would see - we would be marked down on it. I felt completely vindicated! We had a thread recently about respecting us as professionals; would you expect to see spelling and grammar errors on the website/marketing material/brochures of other professionals? (think accountants, solicitors, surveyors, etc). We will continue to perpetuate the myth that we're thick if we project that image via our printed material, will we not? So, please don't flame me for correcting your errors - you may just thank me for it in time.
(This is a genuine offer - if you are worried that your website might not be 100% error free, send me the link and I will proof read it for you. For free.)

 

[Kim Lawless]

Great thread Mrs C.

I too was only thinking about all of the characters and great advisers that have now gone from the site. We can all do the dance of the seven veils around the reasons why, but from what I've been told, they're just sick of the bitchiness by a small group of people on here and sick of being pounced on whenever someone doesn't agree with what's been said.

Even sadder in my books are the less confident geeks who never post because they are frightened of exactly that. This is fact as they've told me so. xxx

 

[1999judy]

It's very nice to get flattering comments but if I have gone wrong somewhere it is helpful to know exactly where and would never take offence to constructive critisism....that's why I usually ask Ant....he's brutally honest:lol:
We learn by the remarks people make...for example on the last comp on the site I was told my fingers looked wrong...it was because I did the nails on myself and struggled to take the pic....so next time I'll ask someone else to take the pic as my fingers DID look distorted.
So that is why we need constructive critisism.
See the pic and you will see what the comment meant.

 

[Katelisa]

Even sadder in my books are the less confident geeks who never post because they are frightened of exactly that. This is fact as they've told me so. xxx

Hands up, it was me :green:

Judy, im trying to work out how your hand is positioned in tht pic. It's baffling me!! I feel another brain explosion coming on lol.