hi hun
i was of the understanding it was the price of your normal manicure plus 50% on top.
Big x
The Cheapening Of Shellac
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hi hun
i was of the understanding it was the price of your normal manicure plus 50% on top.
Big x
Just to go back to the lamp thing (sorry) - I've read all the previous threads re why you need the CND lamp, and I do have and use the old Brisa style lamp for Shellac.
My question is - I have 2 other lamps which I use for Bio Sculpture (not Bio brand lamps), and they have exactly the same bulbs as the brisa lamp, I've tried them on myself to cure Shellac and to be honest I find them better as they are 5 finger lamps rather than the Brisa one as it is a 4 finger lamp. So although I use the CND recommended Brisa lamp for clients so do provide the full service - why is it any better than my other lamps if the bulbs are identical??
Read the article posted by unas above. Gives a good insight to different lamps and how they work.
kylieb
Well-Known Member
Basically guys I really don't care about what lamp does what. The point im making is MY lamp does the job. I'm happy my clients are happy. Job done! If I am 'not providing a shellac service' in geeks eyes just because I don't have a cnd lamp then oh well I'll survive!
NancySyd
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone was questioning whether you do a good job or not. I'm sure your clients are happy. I use the CND lamp, but I also use and mix other brands (on me, not on clients). And shellac is becoming a generic term for SOGP, not just the CND Shellac©. The issue is not so much a practical one as an ethical one - Can you honestly call your service a Shellac© service if you do not follow the clearly stated requirements of the manufacturer?
ellewopter
Well-Known Member
The point is you have no way of telling that your lamp is doing the job with your naked eye. And could well be overexposing your clients. Just because they look ok doesn't mean at a molecular level they are.
Cnd designed the Shellac SYSTEM that's why it is not a Shellac service. I can see why they won't put their name to it if not used correctly it could be potentially damaging to them.
Cnd designed the Shellac SYSTEM that's why it is not a Shellac service. I can see why they won't put their name to it if not used correctly it could be potentially damaging to them.
Katmoz33
Well-Known Member
Just to go back to the lamp thing (sorry) - I've read all the previous threads re why you need the CND lamp, and I do have and use the old Brisa style lamp for Shellac.
My question is - I have 2 other lamps which I use for Bio Sculpture (not Bio brand lamps), and they have exactly the same bulbs as the brisa lamp, I've tried them on myself to cure Shellac and to be honest I find them better as they are 5 finger lamps rather than the Brisa one as it is a 4 finger lamp. So although I use the CND recommended Brisa lamp for clients so do provide the full service - why is it any better than my other lamps if the bulbs are identical??
I used my bio lamp when I first got shellac and I had quite abit of chipping!
So I got the new cnd lamp and haven't had any problems since!
I think the new lamp is amazing, efficient and professional! And if it broke down tomorrow I would replace it asap! X
StephR
Well-Known Member
Well I'm going to disagree with you on this 1. I used a 36w lamp that wasn't a CND lamp. Worked fine to start with had 2-3 weeks wear then I started having service breakdowns, chipping, peeling etc. Luckily at the time I was only using shellac on myself, mum and close friend. I changed the bulbs etc and still had breakdowns so I bit my Tongue and bought the CND lamp and I've NEVER looked back. The lamp is amazing and I'm so glad I don't have to count 10 secs for the base coat as it has a timer built in.
As for the rest of the thread I charge £25 as do a lot of salons in my area. However I know for a fact they do not use all the CND products or do the correct pep. They also don't give aftercare advice out or do all the little extra's that I do. I've recently come across someone who is charging £15 and £5 for solar oil. My suspicion is she isn't using all the correct stuff either and I'm pretty sure she is manicure trained (shes trained in acrylics). At first I thought how on earth am I going to compete with that but I know my service is bloody good so I'm not going to worry. It's actually given me the kick up the bum I needed and I've now booked my shellac course (no one in my area has done it) and I'm going to go for the master painter too!
Andrea85
Well-Known Member
My CND educator charges around £18 in her salon, so a cheaper price doesn't necessarily mean that you're not getting the real Shellac service.
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Sent from my HTC Wildfire using SalonGeek
Anne Niven
Well-Known Member
Where was that quote on the lamps being an additional sale? Its true for heavens sake a 36w lamp will cure it doesn't matter if it says Ezflow, Gellux, The Edge or anything else. Sometimes I get the feeling a few people are just that little bit up their own b*****. Sorry guys we're all trying to make a living and brand of lamp is not cutting corners it's being sensible.
BeautyDiaries
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree (I'm not Shellac trained although hopefully will be soon! YAY!) but I am teaching nail enhancements to L3 Nail Tech students and I too am learning a lot about gel curing and the dangers associated with incorrect lamp use. The link above to 'the seven secrets to the perfect cure' article is one I will be directing my students to when I next see them because it's definitely opened my eyes
Also, if the manufacturer states that certain techniques/products/equipment must be used as part of their treatment it is not so they can make money out of us it's so that they know we are providing a SAFE service to our clients, and in my opinion health and safety is not something to be taken lightly
Kittensgotclaws
Well-Known Member
Hi, i just have to ask one question.
What do you mean by, Over exposing your clients?
Number one, Doug Schoon has said that the uv lights are safe so no problem there and number two, the human body including the finger nails is being exposed to uv rays every day, so should we start telling our clients that after a gel service they can't go outside? To say that someone is being over exposed in a uv lamp is silly, shouldn't we be more worried about the poor clients out there that are being over exposed to acetone, monomer etc, they are the ones who will develop allergic reactions etc not clients who's nails are being cured in a non specific lamp.
On a side note and back on topic with this thread, I uses to provide a shellac service, I had the shellac lamp & everything, i also had a generic 36watt lamp. When this argument arose before I decided to test the theory and so cured one hand in the CND lamp and cured the other in the generic lamp....well guess what they both lasted the same length of time, all the nails were intact no chipping etc. At the end of the day it is down to the individuals preference.
seeing as we're back on the lamp again
let's look at it from an insurance point of view... could this be invalidated if the correct system is not being used??
I for one prefer to do things properly and give customers what they deserve for their hard earned cash!
Re price - yes it was 50% above a manicure - not a file and polish..My file and polish £10, mani £18, Shellac £25.
Shellac needs adequate PEP or it will simply come off. Although most in my area just schlapp it on without file or cuticle work
let's look at it from an insurance point of view... could this be invalidated if the correct system is not being used??
I for one prefer to do things properly and give customers what they deserve for their hard earned cash!
Re price - yes it was 50% above a manicure - not a file and polish..My file and polish £10, mani £18, Shellac £25.
Shellac needs adequate PEP or it will simply come off. Although most in my area just schlapp it on without file or cuticle work
ValencianNails
Positivity rules!
The over exposure refers to potentially uncured product, ie how do you know that a generic lamp (36w with 4 bulbs or otherwise) is fully curing your product.
If Doug Schoon (link provided earlier in the thread) isn't enough to convince the non-believers then I don't see the point of continuing to discuss the 'lamp issue'!
chocolatepickle
Well-Known Member
seeing as we're back on the lamp again
let's look at it from an insurance point of view... could this be invalidated if the correct system is not being used??
I for one prefer to do things properly and give customers what they deserve for their hard earned cash!
Re price - yes it was 50% above a manicure - not a file and polish..My file and polish £10, mani £18, Shellac £25.
Shellac needs adequate PEP or it will simply come off. Although most in my area just schlapp it on without file or cuticle work
You know what, I was just going to post the same thing as I know for a fact my insurance company (and the last I was insured with) will only insure me using products as per manufacturers recommendations, which for CND Shellac means using the right lamp, therefore many using it incorrectly are not insured to carry out that service.
Surely working without insurance is counted as cutting corners?
Jackie D
Well-Known Member
I have the Shellac lamp and it is excellent, I also use it for my Gelish treatments, Nail Harmony said it would be perfect for using but not as quick as their lamp obviously.
On the question of pricing, Are you saying that a nail shape and Shellac should be 50% more than a manicure or a Shellac Manicure is 50% more than a normal manicure?
I charge £18 for my basic manicure, using CND Citrus products and OPI Polish and £24 for my luxury manicure.
I charge £20 for a nail shape & Shellac and £27 & £34 for my Shellac Manicures, my Shellac basic Manicure is my best seller.
Back to the lamp issue. I have been toying with the idea of adding the Gelish LED lamp to my business as I do the same amount of Gelish as I do Shellac. However the cost of the lamp is high. Is it going to save me that much time for the extra expense?
Interesting thread by the way.
On the question of pricing, Are you saying that a nail shape and Shellac should be 50% more than a manicure or a Shellac Manicure is 50% more than a normal manicure?
I charge £18 for my basic manicure, using CND Citrus products and OPI Polish and £24 for my luxury manicure.
I charge £20 for a nail shape & Shellac and £27 & £34 for my Shellac Manicures, my Shellac basic Manicure is my best seller.
Back to the lamp issue. I have been toying with the idea of adding the Gelish LED lamp to my business as I do the same amount of Gelish as I do Shellac. However the cost of the lamp is high. Is it going to save me that much time for the extra expense?
Interesting thread by the way.
ellewopter
Well-Known Member
As above its the shellac not being cured (you cannot tell y looking at it) x and if you don't believe very basic science and Doug as per linked article noone can help much.science clearly isn't enough to convince you, maybe an allergic reaction will? Not being bitchy just honest.
sophiegees
Well-Known Member
Just a thought, if the correct curing time is 120 seconds for a shellac colour in the CND lamp - and using a different make if lamp can result it over or under curing, how does the difference in thickness of application affect the amount of curing?
If someone applied the shellac thinly and someone applied it a bit thicker, would they not be cured to a different extent.
Have often wondered about this
xx
If someone applied the shellac thinly and someone applied it a bit thicker, would they not be cured to a different extent.
Have often wondered about this
xx
MadforMinx
Member
Same thing annoys me . I think if u give a good quality experience then people pay that little extra . We were all taught how to apply properly for a reason and people who don't stick to the steps are lazy and give us all a bad name it's soo annoying .I charge 20 and feel I give a great result that last two weeks x
mum
Well-Known Member
Curing a UV gel is a 'chain reaction'. Once the reaction starts it keeps going with bonds continuing to be built until they are all done. This means that any thickness (within reason) will cure.
With regard to different lamps, Doug's explanation of output shows that, although the tubes may be the same in several lamps, the distance from the nail, the amount of reflection etc is very relevant. Every UV gel needs a specific amount of energy from the UV to make the bond building (curing) finish. Too little energy and the bonds will start but the energy will run out before it is all done (like a battery running out in a torch, the light goes out).
That is why some UV products need specific lamps. Some of the more unsophisticated gels will cure fast with very little energy and thats why they always have a heat spike associated with them and why they cure with any lamp. The sophisticated gels have a more controlled cure with no heat spike but need the carefully measured amount of UV energy to make this happen properly.
As someone said, those that don't believe the scientific facts won't be convinced about anything.
With regard to different lamps, Doug's explanation of output shows that, although the tubes may be the same in several lamps, the distance from the nail, the amount of reflection etc is very relevant. Every UV gel needs a specific amount of energy from the UV to make the bond building (curing) finish. Too little energy and the bonds will start but the energy will run out before it is all done (like a battery running out in a torch, the light goes out).
That is why some UV products need specific lamps. Some of the more unsophisticated gels will cure fast with very little energy and thats why they always have a heat spike associated with them and why they cure with any lamp. The sophisticated gels have a more controlled cure with no heat spike but need the carefully measured amount of UV energy to make this happen properly.
As someone said, those that don't believe the scientific facts won't be convinced about anything.
jacqueline
Well-Known Member
I personally think if you are going to operate with a system then you should have the whole system. Appreciate it is an expense to set up but after just a few clients it does start to pay for itself.
Unfortunately Shellac is a lot cheaper in the US so my clients pay $40 ($55 for Shellac Pedicure), come back every 2 weeks (4 for pedi) so although it doesn't happen over night you can make your initial outlay back relatively quickly.
As an aside, I have a gorgeous manicure table; marble top etc. and a heavy duty piece of furniture, Grecian in style, three drawers, a couple of cupboards etc and it's designed to match the design of the spa but the main thing is it has a built in lamp. Great I thought saves me the extra expense of another lamp but when I bought the Shellac system there was no question that I wouldn't buy the lamp even though the desk had one.
Unfortunately Shellac is a lot cheaper in the US so my clients pay $40 ($55 for Shellac Pedicure), come back every 2 weeks (4 for pedi) so although it doesn't happen over night you can make your initial outlay back relatively quickly.
As an aside, I have a gorgeous manicure table; marble top etc. and a heavy duty piece of furniture, Grecian in style, three drawers, a couple of cupboards etc and it's designed to match the design of the spa but the main thing is it has a built in lamp. Great I thought saves me the extra expense of another lamp but when I bought the Shellac system there was no question that I wouldn't buy the lamp even though the desk had one.
