Where did the Oldies go? (as in Geek-mentors)

[gr8nailz]

As mentioned by some of the other more "seasoned" Salon Geeks who've been members of this site for years, no one should be intimidated to post a thread or an opinion for fear of fellow professionals jumping down their throat or enciting a cat fight or riot. That's not what this site is about at all.

And though I feel responses certainly don't need to be sugar coated, I do believe there should be a certain amount of professional courtesy and, dare I say, tact, displayed toward one another.

We are individuals and therefore will have individual opinions and points of view. Each should be respected. There has been an absence of that of late according to our esteemed "oldies."

 

[VHunter]

I agree with much of what's been said with regards to evolution and growth of the site, and the analogy of neighborhoods that change, people moving in, others moving on.
BUT.....

As mentioned by some of the other more "seasoned" Salon Geeks who've been members of this site for years, no one should be intimidated to post a thread or an opinion for fear of fellow professionals jumping down their throat or enciting a cat fight or riot. That's not what this site is about at all.

And though I feel responses certainly don't need to be sugar coated, I do believe there should be a certain amount of professional courtesy and, dare I say, tact, displayed toward one another.

We are individuals and therefore will have individual opinions and points of view. Each should be respected. There has been an absence of that of late according to our esteemed "oldies."

Exactly...
I see much more arguments than there used to be.
I see a general lack of respect.
I also know of 'oldies' that have chosen not to frequent because of it, and not due to changes in their lives.
It bothers me. It's dissappointing.
ANd I'm just as guilty of it. I can't be bothered getting into another catfight because I shot straight from the hip instead of sugar coating it and saying "tut tut poor baby".
(ps: shooting straight doesn't mean to toss insults, it means to be honest, as in "you are missing an apex and your sidewalls aren't straight" versus "oohh lovely nails")

I would like to see more 'discussions and debates' versus cat-fights.
Voicing opinions on subjects really doesn't require the tossing of personal insults that are unrelated to the subject at hand.

In the threads I listed, a LOT of great faces in there that were awesome contributors.
Yes, the addition of new contributors is GREAT!
But it's a shame we've lost some.

 

[Essential Bliss]

I agree..there has been tonnes of fantastic advice on here from the likes of Gr8nailz, geeg, Vhunter, and many many more (again won't name loads as there are too many to name) and I've got a huge amount of respect for all of you who give your advice on here, you don't get paid to do it, you do it because you want to help us younger or newer ones be just as successful as all of you are!
I really hope people don't get put off giving advice by people's lack of respect, we're not all like that
I'd be lost without this site and many of the geeks on here, I tend to read a lot more than post so you might not realise how many people you really are helping as many just read through and learn more

So thank you to all of you wonderful geeks who put your own time into helping others and sharing your knowledge

Kayleigh xx

Essential Bliss Beauty Therapy

Essential Bliss Beauty Therapy

 

[lauraj]

I read this post this morning but I didn't have chance to send a reply, obviously being a relitavly (sp) new person on her I don't really know who all the oldies are but I think it's a real shame if people are not posting anymore because of the way people react.

I always search before I reply and only then do I post if I can't work something out and I think it is brilliant the way people help one another. I've had bad upsetting days and you've pick me up and sorted me out and like wise I have good days where somethings gone great and its lovely to share.

I have seen though sometimes when people are very harsh and I think its too much, or other time equally when people are dead soft. If I ask a question I like an honest answer especially when I post in the critiques section but it's got to be constructive and people need to not take things to heart so much. What is the point of the softly softly approach, you don't learn from it.

i want to be an oldie one day lol

 

[HWilliams]

I agree..there has been tonnes of fantastic advice on here from the likes of Gr8nailz, geeg, Vhunter, and many many more (again won't name loads as there are too many to name) and I've got a huge amount of respect for all of you who give your advice on here, you don't get paid to do it, you do it because you want to help us younger or newer ones be just as successful as all of you are!
I really hope people don't get put off giving advice by people's lack of respect, we're not all like that
I'd be lost without this site and many of the geeks on here, I tend to read a lot more than post so you might not realise how many people you really are helping as many just read through and learn more

So thank you to all of you wonderful geeks who put your own time into helping others and sharing your knowledge

Kayleigh xx

Essential Bliss Beauty Therapy

Essential Bliss Beauty Therapy

I totally agree, I want a mini geeg to keep in my pocket when I'm stuck on something nails and Gr8nailz is absolutely gorgeous and makes me laugh some of the things she posts...

My feelings towards this site and ANY form of social networking is that you cannot read tone in text.

I am going to type one word now:

OK

Now think of all the was in which you can SAY it but remember you can only type it ONE way

Are you all with me so far?

People who respond for want of a better word 'catlike' imho are just the type who demand the last word...

I was 'shouted down' for not being in the industry long and for not being qualified in a certain aspect so basically to stay out of it even though it's a public forum so now I think stuff it. If I can help, I help, if I can't then I won't BUT if I see someone who I think is being downright rude then I do pull them.

The learner driver thing is a great analogy except it works BOTH ways... EG: My partner is in fact a driving instructor, an elderly lady crashed into the back of him at a roundabout when his pupil stalled. Now you are all going to say, she didn't leave enough space so we all agree yeah? But when my partner got out to see if she was ok and exchange details her exact words were, "I'm never stopping behind a learner again".

This is absolutely shameful, has she never learnt to drive then? Has she never stalled then?

Yes there are 'oldies' that are really worth their weight in gold on here but for God's sake they started just as newbies did.

I don't like day courses but I have done one as it I couldn't afford a longer one, sue me!

I have gone to full time college and worked for a salon owner who told me to forget everything I learned in college as it was her way or no way... WTF??? damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I like Salon Geek, I like the majority of people on hair but I like ME too and have just as much right to an opinion as anyone else on here and unless I get banned I shall continue trying to ignore the crappy comments because there are some and get on with it.

It is a great resource and only spoilt by a minority.

You all have a red button, use it!

Peace and love,

H x

 

[izzidoll]

Well I am still about !
Maybe not as much as I used to be but I am back at the sharp end building up a new nail business and am busy, busy, busy actually doing nails lol!!!

I still enjoy the site when I am on, and you know so what if the same old questions get asked, isn't that what we more experienced geeks are here for?

This is a community not just a search engine !!
How boring would it be if people did only use the search button??
OK we don't want the same questions every day, but sometimes, a few months on, the answers could have a different slant on them, and the way the Nail Industry has moved on of late the answers could be completely different !!

I class myself as an experienced Tech and Geek, but I am still learning too and read some of the recent threads about marketing with great interest.

I try and answer when I can and try to be as honest as possible, I think what is missing these days on site is a lot of humour and a bit of daftness !! I for one miss that !!

Maybe we are all taking ourselves too seriously lol!!!

 

[HWilliams]

This is a community not just a search engine !!
How boring would it be if people did only use the search button??
OK we don't want the same questions every day, but sometimes, a few months on, the answers could have a different slant on them, and the way the Nail Industry has moved on of late the answers could be completely different !!



Beautifully put x

 

[deanosnana]

Great post, izzidoll. I'd rep you but I have to spread the love. :hug:

 

[dandelionpoppy]

First of all I know that I have so much to learn, and I appreciate and thank anyone who takes the time and the thought to respond to my queries.
Respect is earned , not a right, in my book. To be honest I have more respect for someone who is willing to try to help, and responds in a friendly way than someone who gives uber-correct advice but makes you feel a bit, well, small with their answer.
I TOTALLY agree that it is sometimes impossible to read the nuances in an answer.

 

[nailnewbie32]

First of all I know that I have so much to learn, and I appreciate and thank anyone who takes the time and the thought to respond to my queries.
Respect is earned , not a right, in my book. To be honest I have more respect for someone who is willing to try to help, and responds in a friendly way than someone who gives uber-correct advice but makes you feel a bit, well, small with their answer.
I TOTALLY agree that it is sometimes impossible to read the nuances in an answer.

I agree with you, especially about the respect.

 

[Susie H]

As one of the old farts who has asked her share of questions of older members then herself, let me try and see if I can shed some light here.
It's not the one day course v the college course. Some colleges teach such a load of tripe it's frightening.
Some short courses are so packed full of great education they are mind blowing.
What is the problem? For me it's not even the lack of search engine use. I'll quiet often answer a question and tell the poster to use the search bar. That's because I can only give 1 answer and I know that the search bar will give many more and some of those are from the very geeks that Vhunter is talking about. They may not be here, but their info is.
I can be and have been very blunt in the past. I think yesterday was the last time.
When someone slates one of my friends, or starts saying something like.
There is an us and them attitude on here, my blood boils.
I've found that the only person with and us and them attitude is the person who's just written it.
Saying things to make another person feel bad about themselves is so wrong. I've seen that on here. Treating someone as if they are a child, just because they have told you that you've broken one of the rules is wrong.
Who remembers Zoo nails? What a great tech, he's still out there, he's still as well informed, well educated and blunt spoken as he ever was. But he's not here. He and I quiet often didn't see eye to eye. But I always respected his work and his advise. Persionista is by my and Vhunters years on here a newbie. She is my business role model. She has become my friend. She's been in this industry a very long time and I for one would hate to see her leave.
Words with out tone.
Really!! Where did you learn that? of the side of a corn flakes packet?
Oh! That's not what I've been led to believe, could you show me where you learned this? Any web links would be very helpful.
I'm sorry but you are wrong here, if you go to this web link ... you will see what is the up to date info on this subject.
Three ways of saying the same thing. Which one would you like to see written to you?

 

[beauti-licious]

i only joined salongeek recently. i can remember a post by JACQUELINEANNA- it was constructive criticism, and so beautifully worded, as are all of her posts! criticism can be so helpful if its constructive and worded well!

 

[VHunter]

First of all I know that I have so much to learn, and I appreciate and thank anyone who takes the time and the thought to respond to my queries.
Respect is earned , not a right, in my book. To be honest I have more respect for someone who is willing to try to help, and responds in a friendly way than someone who gives uber-correct advice but makes you feel a bit, well, small with their answer.
I TOTALLY agree that it is sometimes impossible to read the nuances in an answer.

On one hand, I agree, and on another, I don't.
No one has to 'prove themselves' to anyone else to get respect.
Neither myself, nor anyone else deserves to be treated otherwise.
I shouldn't have to outline my Resume etc just to get treated with respect. I'm a PERSON.

"Treat others as you would expect others to treat you"
That would be with respect, thank you.
EVERYONE deserves to be treated with RESPECT!!! PERIOD!
(just an FYI - I'm not yelling here, just trying to be emphatic, in case anyone wondered...)

I think the problem with the word 'respect' is that there are different meanings for it, for some people.

Generally speaking, treating someone WITH respect is being polite.
HOWEVER, if there is a Mentor for whom you have a great Respect FOR, it's a bit different.

Just because someone is talented or experienced, doesn't oblige you to think of them as your Mentor, for whom you would have a 'great respect for'. BUT you are expected to treat them politely.

And, just because someone is a newbie, doesn't mean we can all take a dump on their heads.

HOWEVER, the first one that throws a pile of s**t, will likely get buried by a truckload delivered by 'oldies' and 'new oldies'.

I do notice that this generation has a different way of communicating, AND they have bigger expectations in some regards. I don't mean this in a derogatory fashion, but it is, what it is.
The fact of the matter is that this generation has it easier and doesn't have to work as hard as former generations. This is not an opinion, or an assumption, it is a FACT. Just draw some comparisons in day to day life of how things were done 20yrs ago or 40yrs ago versus now.

Having said that, it translates to mean that this generation has grown up expecting things to produce immediate results.

Examples:
My generation: I had to take a 2hr walk to the library and research my science product, spending hours and hours and hours trolling through aisles and flipping through books, walk another 2hrs home AND THEN go back the next day.....
This generation: Welcome to google, answers found in seconds......

My generation: Cooking supper took between 1 to 2hrs.
This generation: Microwave and eat within seconds.

This difference in experiences causes this generation to expect IMMEDIATE results from their efforts. When they don't get them....... they're not happy campers. Not only do they expect immediate results - due to prior experiences teaching them to expect this - BUT they expect to achieve their goals with less effort (again, refer to my above examples).

YES, less effort. This is another issue that plagues this generation.
YIPEEEEEEEEEEEE we can do more in less time!
BUT it has a downfall.... people are surprised at how much effort they must put into things AND will automatically look for the quickest/shortest way to get it done.
WHY? That's how they grew up. It's what they were taught.


NOW when you look at all that.... and consider how it affects this industry and the 'newbies' coming into it... it makes it
A) easier for Oldies to understand newbies and where they are coming from
B) easier for Newbies to understand Oldies and why we get aggravated about the incesssant search for 'shortcuts' to doing things.

AND THIS is the crux of the issue I think?
This is what causes a great deal of headaches here on Geek.
THAT
and then there's the whole issue of communications and how they've changed, but that's a whole other headache to debate LMFAO

 

[pazzy]

So many amazing points - the new generation don't know how easy they have it - what I would have given to have the salon geek 20 years ago - I relied on me and me only for decisions I made wrong or right in both business and my work.
This would have been a dream come true!!
To have someone who went out out of their way to give advice so that I didn't make a wrong decision would have been amazing - and how grateful I would have been too.

I rarely post these days - because people don't know me - what I can do or the skill levels I have - so when I post - usually someone knows better than me - what can I do? I don't think anyone cares about my answer really lol.
However because I don't post - I rarely get into a argument so it doesn't affect me too much.

On the other hand - when I first came on here - it was like going on holiday for the first time and didn't know what to do - where to go. I was so excited that I didn't know about the search or how to post - it took a while before I was aufait with it - and for weeks and weeks, months even - I was never off the salon geek.

 

[hippy-chick]

So many amazing points - the new generation don't know how easy they have it - what I would have given to have the salon geek 20 years ago - I relied on me and me only for decisions I made wrong or right in both business and my work.
This would have been a dream come true!!
To have someone who went out out of their way to give advice so that I didn't make a wrong decision would have been amazing - and how grateful I would have been too.

I rarely post these days - because people don't know me - what I can do or the skill levels I have - so when I post - usually someone knows better than me - what can I do? I don't think anyone cares about my answer really lol.
However because I don't post - I rarely get into a argument so it doesn't affect me too much.

On the other hand - when I first came on here - it was like going on holiday for the first time and didn't know what to do - where to go. I was so excited that I didn't know about the search or how to post - it took a while before I was aufait with it - and for weeks and weeks, months even - I was never off the salon geek.

Now then Pazzy......I remember asking you bucket loads of questions about facial products when I first set up to do facials, and you answered with a huge amount of passion and patience.
I was then lucky enough to meet you and become a friend.

 

[Martigirl]

I am still here guys. I dont always visit the forums as much as I used to. I stick to the groups mainly but do visit here every now and again.

After my little 'break' I am back as busier than I ever was in this industry before, but to be honest I think what I want and need out of this forum is different now - like many of us that have 'been about for a while'.

The problem I find is that many of the threads that are about - are really no different than those from all those years back when I was fairly new - and I feel all the answers are already there - for those that look.

I do miss the olden days but no point in looking back though - only forward! x x x

what she said lol xxxx

My needs have changed over the years too and although I try and contribute where I can, often the answer has already been given, therefore there is no need for me to add anything.

What one person perceives as rudeness another sees as straight talking so "typed talked" is often misconstrued x

Got to agree with Persianista to be told "things are not done like that anymore" is infuriating, but happens in every walk of life, most recently to me by a new mum who preferred her newborn to have a serious nappy rash than risk putting Sudocrem on!!!!

Why of course my advice was rubbish and out of date! Of course her idea of putting a Cortisone steroid cream was infinitely better than a natural product used for years!!!!!!!! Doh!! stoopid me!!!!

Doesn't make it any less infuriating in any context.

Persianista is way more giving than me though!!!! I withdraw and say "whatever" , she is way more considerate than me and still tries to share her wisdom and experience and I applaud her kindness.

I have always said my business would never be the success it is without Salon Geek and I will never leave.

p.s the only defence I can offer re newbies is when I joined I wasn't very techy and didn't even know about a search facility, but had I been advised to look there I would never have been ignorant or rude to "the hand that was feeding me"

sorry for War and Peace lol

 

[redsadie]

Just my 2c

I used to be on here A LOT when I first started my journey in 2008, and it helped me in so many ways, so in that context I do sometimes feel like a relative newbie to the industry.

However, I have found myself on here less and less in the past few months. Why?

Because a) I, like some others here, feel I need something different out of the site now, and b) Some of the threads do turn into a b1tchfest for no apparent reason.

Generally I look at the post count of a person and their join date. This doesn't always necessarily mean they are completely new to the industry, just new to the site, but it would be helpful if all member profiles were filled in as much as possible, as I find this then gives a sense of confidence in the person who is giving a reply. I try to give good advice based on my teachings and continued professional development, but it does irk me when you give said advice, for it to be turned inside out and upside down by someone in a rude manner.

I have no problems with being put straight on something I may have missed, or that has been updated since I last took a look, but I would like it to be said (typed) in a tone which is palatable (and dare I say respectful?). I may be 'old' but I am still learning too

There are smilies on here , I use them a lot to try to convey the way in which I would like my post to be read, and of course, there will be members who cannot read this purely because it hasn't actually been spoken and therefore cannot be interpreted in the way in which it was intended.

Like Vic and Susie said, there are ways and means of wording something you would like to say. Here's a radical idea - why not, before you post, read through what you have written, and if you wouldn't say it out loud to someone or to their face, then either don't press 'send' and re-write it in a different way, or don't bother

The use of the search function is sometimes a contentious issue, but being new here once I soon learned . Newbies should read the Reception threads first, as I believe they are asked to do upon registration, where they will be told about the search function. Sometimes you may not be able to find the exact answer to what you need, so yes, by all means post your question.

So,my 2c and if you do want to shoot me down in flames, please do it in a nice respectful manner

 

[Blue Rose]

I think I was one of the 1st to post on this thread about the search button not being used effectively.

Granted, this site would be a bit thin on the ground if we all did that & yes, some of the replies are quite a few months old.

But, what bugs me is the lack of reading through CURRENT threads before posting another one. You only need to look in Skin Geek & read the duplicate thread titles.

 

[dandelionpoppy]

Just wanted to clarify what I meant by respect.
Being respectful to someone, ie showing them courtesy and politeness, is something I totally agree with.
I do still think, though, that respect FOR a person (I'm not just talking Geeks, I mean in all walks of life) has to be earned.
For example I knew some fabulous Headteachers who 100% deserved the respect the profession is (or was?) paid. There were the odd 1 or 2 though who sadly didn't deserve it, at least as far as I judged.

 

[nailnewbie32]

Just wanted to clarify what I meant by respect.
Being respectful to someone, ie showing them courtesy and politeness, is something I totally agree with.
.

For what it's worth,that's how I read your post when I agreed with it